Drug Cartel Member Makes Explosive Allegation: ‘Fast and Furious’ Is Not What You Think It Is

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by sonnny1

 

Bush was wrong!

Oh no! I said it and I am pretty damn big partisan myself.

That wasn't hard.

Obama guilty to!

About time.

This current Administration, has deaths on its hands also. Many Deaths. I wish more of Obama's supporters would at least admit it, without blaming Bush, or bringing up the Past. This President has taken many of our freedoms away. Another fact, his supporters wont admit.

reply to post by sonnny1

Like I said. Me and you, wont see eye to eye, because your standards, of holding the current President libel, is skewed. You wont admit he was wrong, and you deflect, because of partisan bias. You cant say its not.

I won't say neither Bush nor Obama was wrong in these gun walking operations.

I simply don't know enough of the facts.

The logic behind it seems off to me...but I'm not in law enforcement so I don't know if operations like these are common or successful.

What I do know is that Obama's DOJ is currently conducting a criminal and an internal investigation about it that is yet to be complete. I will hold my judgement until they release their findings of the investigations.

From my knowledge, there really wasn't any issues with Bush's gun walker program...so why would I say it was wrong???

reply to post by neo96
Niether the Reps or Dems will do anything to seal the border to Mexico.

They both put peon law-enforcement officers in harm's way while they take their profits and play their games.

Many, many Mexicans and Americans are viciously shot down, just by being innocent bystanders in their game.

The Dems are now attempting to disarm Americans, so they can be shot down just as judiciously as the Mexican people's holocaust has been.

American people's enemies are from within.

Who can stop this slaughter for some men's gain?

Even Ron Paul is for open borders, although he does advocate for legal drugs.

The Summit of the Americas - you know, the Secret Service sex scandal in America? - the real news was that the other central american and south american countries wanted legalized drugs ( marijuania, coc aine) and wanted Cuba to be joined in next year, or they threatened not to have another "summit". USA and Canada would not agree to this.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher


From my knowledge, there really wasn't any issues with Bush's gun walker program...so why would I say it was wrong???

You don't know the facts, of both Operations, but are willing to pull "facts", for what reason ?


Lets break it down, shall we?

Dubbed "Operation Wide Receiver," the Bush-era operation was run out of Tucson between 2006 and 2007, ending before Bush left office and before Fast and Furious began under Obama in 2009. The differences between it and Fast and Furious are vast, starting with the fact that Wide Receiver produced no dead bodies.

Under the "controlled delivery" of Wide Receiver, agents didn't just write down the serial numbers and let the guns disappear as in Fast and Furious. They closely and physically followed the guns from American dealers to straw purchasers to Mexican buyers. Most importantly, Wide Receiver was run in close cooperation with Mexican authorities, who were kept in the dark on Fast and Furious.

For me, "setting up" someone, for the purchase of anything, has always been a grey area. We will never know if there were those, on the Mexican side of the Border, being "used" in this operation. I say "used" loosely, because Governments tend to find patsy's, and those for sale, all the time.....

Back to the Present......

In contrast ATF agents involved in Fast and Furious have testified that they were ordered not to track the weapons and in cases where interdiction was possible they were ordered to stand down and actually watch the weapons walk.

Wrong. On so many levels.

ATF Special Agent John Dodson has testified how in one instance guns were sold to known illegal buyers who took them to a stash house. Against orders from his superiors, Dodson kept the stash house under surveillance and when a vehicle showed up to transfer the weapons to their ultimate destination, he called for an interdiction team to move in, seize the weapons and arrest the traffickers. His superiors refused, and the guns disappeared without surveillance.

Fast And Furious Did Not Begin Under President Bush

So, with the evidence, in your possession, You can make a clear Judgment, on it. You don't have to wait, for the investigation, to end. Its clear.


Bush has so many other things, that I can call him out on, but our current Administration dropped the ball on this, and can I say, Have played "dumb" also with it. Hopefully you can see it for what it is, and stop playing politics with the situation. Obama and Holder, clearly, did not have this Operation under control. People died, and those responsible, clearly need to be called out on it.

reply to post by Happy1
Also, Bank of America and Citibank, (I believe) have just recently got in trouble and were closing branches due to money laundering for Mexican Drug Cartels and radical Islamist Jihad terrorist organizations.

China is all over South America, building stadiums, hospitals, soccer fields for free.

I believe Chavez and Venzelua (?spelling?) are big profitters of this "free money."

Don't forget the huge China and Clinton connection. Favored nation trading.

@ This is to the thread in general. Those lying tonight know who they are...and it's detestable. I don't do names tho...and it is NOT just one person, either..so this general open is the best way of putting it. ya knows who ya is.

Hmmm..... It's amazing how rain clouds of misinformation (Not Dis...important distinction) are running all over lately. Little showers of confusion and chaos... It'd be amusing if it wasn't causing so many open hard feelings and so often here recently.

These come in no particular order..but each has different details to the story and/or link which make them worth citing.

Operation Fast and Furious ran from late 2009 to early 2011, and is part of a still-open larger investigation into the gun-trafficking ring. The operation’s tactic of not quickly seizing guns and arresting straw buyers in the hope that they would lead investigators to higher-ups in the ring prompted controversy within the firearms bureau.

(Source: NY Times, July 11 2011)

That is based on Testimony from the hearings and not attributed specifically to one or another individual testifying

Reporting from Washington — In March 2010, the No. 2 man at the ATF was deeply worried. His agents had lost track of hundreds of firearms. Some of the guns, supposed to have been tracked to Mexican drug cartels, were lost right after they cleared the gun stores.

Five months into the surveillance effort — dubbed Operation Fast and Furious — no indictments had been announced and no charges were immediately expected. Worse, the weapons had turned up at crime scenes in Mexico and the ATF official was worried that someone in the United States could be hurt next.

(Source: LA Times, Aug 11 2011)

Now that testimony about the #2 man at ATF puts the start around December of 2009.

In November 2009, Newell’s agents in “Group 7,” one of the squads in the office, began following a particularly busy suspected gun trafficker. In 24 days, he bought 34 firearms. The next month, the man and his associates bought 212 more.

The case began to grow exponentially, with more than two dozen suspected straw purchasers. It was named Fast and Furious because the suspects operated out of a sprawling auto repair shop and raced cars on the streets, like Vin Diesel, the star of the movie.

(Source: Washington Post, July 2011)

This one decribes the actual origin and start of the operation itself as well as the origin of the name......in 2009.

Now, Newel had been around awhile, and it may help explain some of that misin..err.. simple confusion on some of the basics of dates and such.

Newell, you may know, was the special agent in charge of the Phoenix ATF division, which includes Tucson, from June 2006 to May this year.

Newell had not yet assumed control of the Phoenix division when Wide Receiver began in February 2006, but he was in full control when a second, probably more prolific phase of the operation began in 2007. This was when Tucson firearms dealer Mike Detty built a case against Carlos Armando Celaya and associates.

Detty believes Newell was aware that guns were going to Mexico as part of Operation Wide Receiver.

(Source: Arizona Daily Star, Oct 12, 2011

Of all I was reading on this, that is the only case of overlap I saw and it comes from an Informant, not an agent.

So... That is Fast and Furious running from 2009 to 2011. It is what it is, and that's from their own mouths. Multiple instances of sworn testimony. Wide Receiver preceded Fast and Furious and was similar but definitely NOT the same operation.

U.S. and Mexican map of Cartel routes and coverage by name and area.

Finally, the above is what this has all caused. The number is up to 50,000 dead civilians now and still climbing. Bush was wrong? Yes... damn skippy he was. He ought to answer for Ramos and Campion too.....

Obama is the man sitting in the seat NOW though, so he's the man still in a position to do damage with MORE of this insanity. Bush earned a ticket to a trial..in a perfect world, but Obama goes first. That's life when you sit in his big chair and throw executive priv. around. People start wondering WHY.

Good Job to the OP on this..... It's a story they want to see die but the only one who did was Agent Brian Terry. Justice needs done for him.......or does THAT death not matter? Someone ought to ask Obama about that.

Since when have drugs cartels become trustworthy sources of information? Is it the recruiting of children, the blood money, or leaving headless bodies on highways which gives them credibility?

Seems to me like making a claim which undermines the US Gov would suit their interests well. After all, Uncle Sam is their biggest threat.

The truth will come out in time. For now, we can only speculate.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000
Well said.

Obama wants "wealthy" individuals to be allowed fast=tracked in to the US to buy all of those foreclosed expensive homes . Mexican cartal members?

What other "crap" is he attempting to allow into these United States with his latest "cloaked amnesty" program?

Take firearms from citizens away, and let well-armed criminals in?

reply to post by jibeho


OP: You're calling out Obama for this, yes?

Please tell me who the president was between 2004 and 2009 when the cartel allegedly was allowed to smuggle drugs across the boarder?

Originally posted by Evil_Santa
reply to post by jibeho

 

OP: You're calling out Obama for this, yes?

Please tell me who the president was between 2004 and 2009 when the cartel allegedly was allowed to smuggle drugs across the boarder?

So you are mad because you are not failing for idiot anti logic???

Obama was president in 2004! Obama crashed the economy

Yes I am imitating a mentally challenged American voter, so what?

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Let me try again.

The Sinaloa Cartel was allegedly permitted to traffic massive amounts of drugs across the U.S. border from 2004 to 2009 as long as the intel kept coming.

Obama was responsible for policies that were in practice before his presidency.

Those practices ended in the year he became president. You are create fake anger
based upon lies that you and other keep repeating. The above information makes
all your assertions erroneous

Why are you lying even when the OP points out your lies so thoroughly?

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well said.

Obama wants "wealthy" individuals to be allowed fast=tracked in to the US to buy all of those foreclosed expensive homes . Mexican cartal members?

What other "crap" is he attempting to allow into these United States with his latest "cloaked amnesty" program?

Take firearms from citizens away, and let well-armed criminals in?

Geeze... I know this is a conspiracy site, but no need to just make stuff up.

Why would the President of the United States need a "cloaked amnesty program" ? And since when is a 2 year stay of deportation considered amnesty? This is not a pardon.

Why would the President of the United States risk so much to get cartel members into our nation to buy foreclosed homes? What purpose would this serve?

Who is taking firearms away from citizens?

Originally posted by MuonSpin

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Well said.

Obama wants "wealthy" individuals to be allowed fast=tracked in to the US to buy all of those foreclosed expensive homes . Mexican cartal members?

What other "crap" is he attempting to allow into these United States with his latest "cloaked amnesty" program?

Take firearms from citizens away, and let well-armed criminals in?

Geeze... I know this is a conspiracy site, but no need to just make stuff up.

Why would the President of the United States need a "cloaked amnesty program" ? And since when is a 2 year stay of deportation considered amnesty? This is not a pardon.

Why would the President of the United States risk so much to get cartel members into our nation to buy foreclosed homes? What purpose would this serve?

Who is taking firearms away from citizens?

Stop using logic

It is unfair to bring logic to an argument that is based upon fairy tales and propaganda

reply to post by MuonSpin
Morale at ICE is at an all time low. An officer was just suspended for having to let an illegal immigrant with 10 traffic citations go, and refused to do so.

The UN arms treaty was rejected by the Senate, but Obama is threatening to over=rule it and make it another executive order.

There has been articles about letting wealthy immigrants fast track into the US, but it's 4 o'clock in the a.m. and I need to go to bed.

reply to post by jibeho


Not to give everyone a history lesson, but this is the same tactic that the Roman and Byzantine Emperor's used against various "Barbarian" tribes. It failed then and it will fail now.

The only way to end this maddness is to tell the prohibitionist's where to shove it and make sensible choices without the input of recovering addicts or psychopathic control freaks.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
It's not like the US hasnt done this before.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Until they crash a plane into a building.

This could be more than a botched federal investigation and actually be an Iran-Contra right on the border.

Nice.

And those Iran-Contra type deals always work out right?

OT: You know what would really stop the cartel? Ending the drug war by allow adults choose what they can/can't put into their own bodies. Making their business legal would swamp them down in so much red tape anyways I doubt the would see it as worth it.

Just my opinion anyways, either way I think most people here can agree we shouldn't put weapons into the hands of violent criminals.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by MuonSpin

 

Morale at ICE is at an all time low. An officer was just suspended for having to let an illegal immigrant with 10 traffic citations go, and refused to do so.

The UN arms treaty was rejected by the Senate, but Obama is threatening to over=rule it and make it another executive order.

There has been articles about letting wealthy immigrants fast track into the US, but it's 4 o'clock in the a.m. and I need to go to bed.

Can you provide me with a link to a credible source proving overall morale @ ICE is low b/c of the DeamAct?

You mean the UN arms treaty to regulate the export of deadly weapons to rogue regimes or is it UN's attempt to take guns away from American citizens?
- "This treaty is only about the international transfer of civilian weapons,” says Scott Stedjan, a senior policy adviser at Oxfam America. “A transfer means when a weapon both crosses a national boundary and there's a change of title or control. US gun rights do not involve weapons flowing from one border to another border – it's only about things domestically within the United States. The Second Amendment applies to the use of weapons within the United States."
www.csmonitor.com...
- It looks to me like NRA/Republican shared agenda is once again wasting tax dollars on paranoia and conspiracy theories. + 10 brownie points for the demagogues & -10 for those super evil Oxfam guys
- When did Obama threaten to use Executive Order?

Wealthy immigrants may be fast-tracked if they meet a certain criteria b/c they bring $$ and investment w/them. Most nations have these "fast-tracked" immigration policies allowing investors/wealthy quick path to legal residency. The rationale behind this is common sense. Costa Rica, Argentina, US, Canada, EU + many more all have these policies.

Originally posted by thepresident

Stop using logic

It is unfair to bring logic to an argument that is based upon fairy tales and propaganda

my bad