Guddafi agrees to end conflict

reply to post by SLAYER69


So in other words, you dont know. Thats all you have to say. Dont you find it odd at all you can FIND pictures of mass protests against governments all over the place, except Libya. I do.

Im not suggesting we get involved in Iran, or anywhere. Im actually NOT suggesting we attack Saudi Arabia, Im saying that the fact that we have not really makes it clear that our stated motives for attacking the countries in the Middle East we have attacked, are big fat lies.

You keep throwing out all these reasons why we should be interfering in Libya. Im just saying those same things are happening in Saudi, so whats the difference? You brought up that it was the right thing to do because we should push for democracy in nations with hereditary leadership. Ok, I pointed out that Saudi has that too, and people want democracy there too.

You are coming at me like the whole point of my argument is to start a war in other countries, and nothing could be further from the truth.

My argument is that we should not be at war with Libya. It never was any of our business, as a nation. Nothing we are doing down there is good for my country, its costing us money, and its not like the US people are going to be splitting up the oil down there. "We" the United States has nothing to gain. Our politicians are sending our troops down there because they no longer serve the people of the US. They serve multinational corporations and banksters.

IF our policies in the Mid East served the people of the US, we would have attacked Saudi Arabia, not Iraq. And we would not be messing with Gaddafi at all. He has been doing his thing down there for 40 odd years, and his people are doing better under his "brutal rule" than virtually any other people on the continent according to UN figures. So what exactly are we saving them from?

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
You brought up that it was the right thing to do because we should push for democracy in nations with hereditary leadership. Ok, I pointed out that Saudi has that too, and people want democracy there too.

I've never made that statement nor is it my stance. Many members here at ATS sure do make some quick assumptions about me and my stance. This is the third day in a row.

I'm glad Qaddafi will hopefully be gone soon. I'm not going to apologize for that. Sure It could possibly have been handled differently and maybe it should have, but that's not what happened in the REAL real world. In the Real world people from all over the planet [from the left, right, East and West] were all screaming for the West to get involved and do something. Hell even China and Russia who both knew better abstained from vetoing UN sanctioned action.

Those who know me and have read what I've written since this whole mess was building up know I wasn't for involvement That part gets ignored. I've written then as I do now we will get grilled in the public eye as being war mongers if we went in. Sure enough, here we are.

Now that we are involved we should finish it as quickly as possible.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
[I've never made that statement nor is it my stance. Many members here at ATS sure do make some quick assumptions about me and my stance. This is the third day in a row.

Its not really an "assumption" its because I was discussing that precise topic with another member and you jumped in, and since you were attacking my argument to him, I got confused as to your point. We were discussing, explicitly, the overturning of family based leaders for democracy. I didnt realize you were introducing a new argument since all you were doing was attacking my position on the Saudis.

Maybe if people keep confusing your position you are not making your position clear enough. What is your position?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
In the Real world people from all over the planet [from the left, right, East and West] were all screaming for the West to get involved and do something. Hell even China and Russia who both knew better abstained from vetoing UN sanctioned action.

Who are these people? And why should the US government listen to them, over the people of the US?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Those who know me and have read what I've written since this whole mess was building up know I wasn't for involvement That part gets ignored. I've written then as I do now we will get grilled in the public eye as being war mongers if we went in. Sure enough, here we are.

The again, why should the US government attack another country because people around the world are calling for us to? And who are these people in your mind? Its not the citizens of other western nations, they really dont want to get involved either. So who is pulling the strings here, and why are western governments ignoring their people, spending TONS of their peoples money and running up HUGE debts, when the people do not really want them to do so?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Now that we are involved we should finish it as quickly as possible.

Gaddafi has accepted the agreement to stop fighting. That should be our cue to pack our toys and go home. But we wont. Because they have been lying to us all along about the motives. And WHY they have been lying to us relates directly to the "who' is calling for US and other western intervention. Its the multinational corporations and banksters who are making our countries dance like puppets on strings. And that should be what we are spending our money and attention on, cutting those strings before we lose OUR country to them, the way the Libyans and other people around the world are.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
The again, why should the US government attack another country because people around the world are calling for us to? And who are these people in your mind? Its not the citizens of other western nations, they really dont want to get involved either.

It's not my responsibility nor am I interested in informing you on who these people are. You obviously have missed plenty of threads and replies mirroring and echoing the very large and loud public opinion cry before we went in for something to be done. There is a search feature here at ATS and if that fails you one could do your own research over at Google.

Gaddafi has accepted the agreement to stop fighting. That should be our cue to pack our toys and go home. But we wont.

So now you're a prophet? Tell me swami what will the winning lotto numbers be for this weeks jackpot? In all seriousness. Time will tell.

Its the multinational corporations and banksters who are making our countries dance like puppets on strings. And that should be what we are spending our money and attention on, cutting those strings before we lose OUR country to them

I'm sorry I don't share your beliefs. I've stopped believing in the Bogeymen, Easter Bunny, Santa Claus and or a Sexy Ginnie coming out of a bottle

No doubt they have been there for a while, but i dont know if i'd call them legit.
Saddam would still be in power today if we hadnt of removed him, he'd been there a while, but he was anything but legit.

I think any sort of royal rule, or family controlled nation isnt legit. The people deserve to run the nation.

I will say this once more why should every nation on this earth should be democratic? or even have a capitalism system? in a democratic society people dont get to vote the elites do.


Why? have you noticed the euporean union leaders are all pro Washington meaning the leaders whom are running the EU dont really much care about there own countries they only care about pushing Americas agenda, just look at how the french attacked libya with its natos jets.

Why are the so called 1000 or so rebels waving the old flag the kingdom of libya? do these youths know anything about the past? during the time of kingdom of libya? people lived hard life was pretty hard for libyians.


But that didn't matter how the people lived in libya as long that kingdom of libya was a pro American, Washington back then didnt much care about the people, nor do they care now.


My question is if the internet was turned off how did these rebels manage to get these old kingdom of libya flags?
That makes you wonder.


What the west is doing in libya is all about profits, not the people, if there is an election held in libya you can bet it will have a pro Washington stance.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

I think any sort of royal rule, or family controlled nation isnt legit. The people deserve to run the nation.

Just so you there is no such thing as letting the people to run the nation, just look at EU, do you think the Europeans are really running? the elites are the ones who always run not the people.

The people deserve to run the nation

Sounds like you support the rebels, i have to ask why is that? what good does democracy bring? what good did democracy bring in Romania? nothing but poverty.

These rebels are only in 1000s or so compare that to Libya's population of 6 M

Do you really believe the media that libyans are supporting these terrorists backed by the west?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
No doubt they have been there for a while, but i dont know if i'd call them legit.
Saddam would still be in power today if we hadnt of removed him, he'd been there a while, but he was anything but legit.

Well one should keep Saddam Husein in his proper historical context. Iraq was our old Cold War puppet. The Soviets were in Afghanistan, The West did not know what their intentions were in the Persian Gulf. Iran was unstable after they over threw the Shah. [Yes Operation Ajax and all that] Both the Soviets and Red China also had their other Puppet over in North Korea. We had South Korea etc.


The US helped the Mujaheddin repulse the Soviets and then later we took out our Guy Saddam. Now the Soviets are gone Red China is now capitalists, South Korea is wealthy and North Korea is now a nuclearly armed Rogue. We took care of our mess the Soviets now Russia and China have yet to deal with theirs effectively. The rest is history.

I think any sort of royal rule, or family controlled nation isnt legit. The people deserve to run the nation.

I can't disagree with that.

But let's not forget as bad as some Western outsiders believe many of the ME countries are [Including Saudi Arabia] the Saudis have made their country the wealthiest in the Region. The over all Standard of living is higher than most in the region.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You say "people" from the east, from the west, are making the US attack Libya, but wont say who. In other words you dont know.

You seem to be claiming that uprising in Libya is a popular one, and you have no numbers to support that. And all you keep doing is showing pictures of uprisings in other countries that have nothing at all to do with the topic. In other words you dont know.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by heyJude
Excellent.
So what's going to happen now?

Palestinian people move into eastern Libya
and create the State of Palestine.

Then comes Peace in the ME and the
anti-Christ is ushered into power in
Israel.

edit on 4/10/2011 by boondock-saint because: (no reason given)

great prediction!

with Libya's population under 7 million and the water situation looking good:

www.goumbook.com...

a migration effort could work !

it could also provide a new workforce to rebuild the infrastructure.


(but only if Soros is directing the whole thing !) haha just kidding .....

but wait .....

ah? well?


maybe Soros is running for Prime Minister of Israel !

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You say "people" from the east, from the west, are making the US attack Libya, but wont say who. In other words you dont know.

Nobody "Made us" do anything. It would be wise not to attempt to put words in others mouths. That was your misinterpretation of my reply. Now I'll type this out nice and slow for you. International Public outcry for the West to do something reached the highest levels of Governments. [Not Just the US] It went to the UN. They discussed it and at that point it was voted on and agreed to. FOLLOW ME SO FAR?

Russia and China BOTH KNEW what was going to happen YET they both abstained. They could have both individually or together had the power to block the action. So in effect the entire UN security council agreed.

You seem to be claiming that uprising in Libya is a popular one, and you have no numbers to support that. And all you keep doing is showing pictures of uprisings in other countries that have nothing at all to do with the topic.

It's not my fault that you went skipping down the trail of off-topicness with your ill conceived and poorly thought out idea of dragging Saudi Arabia into the discussion first.

In other words you dont know.

Enough to scare the HELL out of Qaddafi to the point where he called out the Army and later his entire Air-force to bomb the crap out of the people he cared for so much. I'm sorry, as far as I know only the Russians and the US will use a state of the Art missile from a jet to kill one Goat or Camel herder.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c43b732ddc0b.png[/atsimg]

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


You know, I dont doubt that the people who support the rebels have good hearts.

To me, that is the saddest part of the whole mess. With corporations controlling both our government and the media, we really dont stand a chance of making good decisions. Most people dont want to logic it out for themselves, and many cannot bring themselves to admit that the America they love is behaving badly around the world.

And its a shame. Our loyalty to our nation and our good intentions are indeed paving the way to hell, for us, for the Libyan people, and who knows who is next.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

t's not my fault that you went skipping down the trail of off-topicness with your ill conceived and poorly thought out idea of dragging Saudi Arabia into the discussion first.

Umm. I wasnt talking to you, and it was on topic. You butted in on Saudi Arabia, and if you didnt want to discuss it, you could have just continued talking to someone else. You know I notice you like being exceptionally nasty to me, and you seem to be getting away with it, but when you were discussing that same topic with another member just minutes ago you said;

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I think any sort of royal rule, or family controlled nation isnt legit. The people deserve to run the nation.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

I can't disagree with that.

But let's not forget as bad as some Western outsiders believe many of the ME countries are [Including Saudi Arabia] the Saudis have made their country the wealthiest in the Region. The over all Standard of living is higher than most in the region.

So you can discuss Saudi Arabia with the person I was discussing Saudi Arabia with before you butted in, and you can actually be civil to them, while with me, you are being as nasty as you possibly can. Nice.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Enough to scare the HELL out of Qaddafi to the point were he called out the Army and later his entire Air-force to bomb the hell out of people. I'm sorry, as far as I know only the Russians and the US will use a state of the Art missile from a jet to kill one Goat or Camel herder.

In other words, you have no idea how many Libyans actually supported the rebels. You are solely basing your opinion that it was a popular uprising on the media, which provided us NONE of the pictures of mass popular uprisings the provided for us in regard to Egypt and even Iran. (How did we manage to get those when we couldnt get pics of a mass uprising in Libya?) But there were plenty of pics of Gaddafi supporters on the internet.

You know, dont feel compelled to answer me if you just want to be nasty some more. Because Im not being nasty to you. Asking you to support your statements is not nasty. Its totally fair. The fact that you have nothing to support your opinion but some vague media claims is not my fault. Its yours.

If the truth hurts to the point of it being considered NASTY there isn't much I can do about that except offer you some advice and that would be to develop some thicker skin. If you want me to quote some MSM given figures on how many people are in or are supporting the rebellion would you accept them considering the source anyway? I doubt it. so whats the point? And lastly I could honestly care less if you are offended or had your feelings hurt or if you agree with my stance or not.

In the End it wont change a damn thing that's happening over in Libya now does it?

Elvis has left the Building

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67217eaecc54.jpg[/atsimg]

Wow this post if full of stupid guys thinking the rebels are "the civilians"
They are god damn terrorists hired by the American and French governments just so they can get the oil in Libya.
If you don't see the big picture Libya has 70 million people with only 2 million the rebels and 68million supporting Gaddafi, do you think he is going to do the same idiocy Mubarak and Tunisian leader?
I say No kill the rebels! all sorted.Oh yea it won't be because they will just think of another plan to bring down Gaddafi.

Originally posted by foreshadower99
Wow this post if full of stupid guys thinking the rebels are "the civilians"
They are god damn terrorists hired by the American and French governments just so they can get the oil in Libya.
If you don't see the big picture Libya has 70 million people with only 2 million the rebels and 68million supporting Gaddafi, do you think he is going to do the same idiocy Mubarak and Tunisian leader?
I say No kill the rebels! all sorted.Oh yea it won't be because they will just think of another plan to bring down Gaddafi.

Not sure libya has anywhere near 70 million people. Maybe 6 million. Just sayin. But yes, the rebels are just a very small group.

reply to post by Cynicaleye


"finally the tyrant has given in"

That is not true, Qaddafi and African Union have been calling for negotiations and cease fire from the start. It is the Western agenda that bothers me, as the West does not have any side which they are comfortable with. A unity government would not uphold Western interests in Libya as the Rebels are Islamists, and Qaddafi is obviously pissed off due to the intervention.

I hope the West supports the end to this conflict.

The worse part of this is that Chavez called for negotiations from the start, but the West laughed at him, now it ended up with what Chavez was calling for in the first place.

Well, I thought I would chime in about this recent tidbit coming out of Libya. "Gaddafi agrees to end conflict?" That title is a little misleading, we are getting secondhand information from the President of South Africa, Jacob Zuma, and not Colonel Gaddafi about his intent for an end of hostilities. Until it comes directly from the horse's mouth, this latest development is hearsay by the South African President. Now the African Union nations feel compelled to get involved in this mess? The adage goes, "To many cooks in kitchen ruin the soup."

I have a feeling if Gaddafi is indeed entertaining the proposal made by the African Union, he will reneged on it. As some have pointed out, he won't leave unless captured by rebels or is put in a coffin. He thinks he is right, and is fighting a legitimate rebellion. Whereas those in the West, Prime Minister David Cameron, President Nicholas Sarkozy, and President Barack Obama are telling their people that he is brutally decimating his own people. The MSM is going along with yarn being spun by the UN and leaders of the free world. I would like to know the root causes of this conflict, because I have no idea?

First, we have heard about protests, and immediately after that, a rebellion was gathering steam in eastern Libya. Quite a stretch from protests to armed rebellion? Where did these rebels procure the weapons and equipment? Furthermore, I do not like what I have learned about the origins of these rebels. It has been alleged that they have moonlighted as Jihadis in both Iraq and Afghanistan? Is it not an insult to injury to support any group that has ties to extremism or have taken up arms against the UN/NATO coalition nations in other conflicts? I have had my reservations about this conflict since day one, and even now. All of the reasons that justifies foreign intervention seems murky to me?

Just a year or so ago, Gaddafi was normalizing relations with the West, he was bending elbows with European leaders, making amends for Lockerbie, and had canceled his weapons of mass destruction program. Why the drastic change of heart among Western Powers? Hopefully, he decides to step down, and end the carnage that is ravaging his country. Still, I don't think he will.

this whole libya conflict wasn't and isn't about oil...its about gaddafi turning his back on the dollar,and wanting a to go to the gold currency...this is not over by a long shot....not till they shut gaddafi voice up.....

do your reseach ...gaddafi was the biggest voice in the africans and arab nations refuseing to deal in the dollar..(hence bringing forth the collapse of the dollar,and the federal reserve)

the rothschilds,can't have loud mouth gaddafi treading on there toes...

gaddafi not the bad man in this....infact gaddafi was doing the world a favor..

watch this video....its translated from russian....trust me its a eye opener..