Family abused for hanging American flag upside down.

Haha my neighbors have flown their flag upside down for years!

When they first did it, the township tried to do something about it, and it was on the front page of the paper and everything. Their argument was that, of course, our nation is in distress!

www.ushistory.org/betsy/news/mc072107.htm

Oh, and they also had their flag stolen once because of it!

blog.pennlive.com/lvbreakingnews/2007/07/upside_down_flag_stolen_but_ow.html

I wholeheartedly agree with them, our nation IS in distress!!!

....The flag still flies upside down to this day.

Thought about doing the same for a time because I too believe this is a country in distress. I live remote emough it just really wouldn't make a statement.

All this noise about flying the flag upside down, which really is a part of flag protocol but you never hear anything about people that leave their flags flying 24 hours a day without a spotlight or leaving it in service so long it becomes tattered and these actually ARE violations of flag protocol.

reply to post by machines4200


Here is the American Flag site and link to what the upsidedown flag stands for.

American Flag Etiquette

And here is the story about what happened.

Couple Terrorized, Assulted for flying American Flag Upsidedown

Originally posted by woogleuk
Here you go, heres your story

Activists arrested in row over protest flag, allege abuse by Buncombe deputy

I just wanted to point out one ridiculous thing in that article...

The male victim was arrested for "assault" on the officer, for this...

According to Deborah Kuhn, Scarborough “tried to force the door, but we got it closed and locked it with the deadbolt. He then kicked it, punched the glass out, unlocked our door and came after us.”

The sheriff’s office report states that “the man [Mark Kuhn] refused to identify himself and slammed the door on the officer’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting the officer’s hand.”

However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door.

“I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.”

Deborah Kuhn says that Scarborough then “pursued my husband into the kitchen, they were scuffling, [and] Mark was trying to get away from him. He pulls out his billy club and I call 911 and say that an officer has broken into our house and is assaulting us.”

Scarborough sustained a cut to his arm when the window broke and Mark Kuhn had several cuts on his face from the scuffle with Scarborough.

“I was just trying to defend myself and back away from him,” Kuhn said. “They never, ever told us why we were being arrested until we were in jail.”

That whole department is a joke

...But they should show respect to the flag.

How so, in what way ?
The concept of flag waving breeds institutionalized
mob mentality, which threatens individual-rights and freedoms.
I have 1rst Nation blood in me, and have ALWAYS found
those playing into the anthem and flag waving game insulting .
It was bad enough when speaker-systems in all schools,
government buildings, and arenas systematically
blasted out god-save-the-queen here in Canada .
There is something just plain wrong with that !
It instills systematic institutionalized recognition and discourages
free thinking, I find this in itself disturbing.
I get dirty looks when I don't stand during anthems,
"Our home ON Native-land" (*lol*), but the way I see it,
if both the French and Eng. languages can be 'official' here in Canada, then
recognition should also be given to the 1rst Nations flag (including
at hockey games etc.). Only then would I even consider giving my respect.


________________

The Supreme Court said if you want to crap on a flag you can. They didn't. They flew it upside down which is a codified lawful distress signal.

Only in a Fascist State could a cop bust into peoples homes, break their property, beat them down. use chemical weapons on them, arrest them for no crime, force them to make bail...

Then dismiss all charges since no law was broken:

www.jonesreport.com/articles/030807_flag_charges_dropped.html

The "cop" received no punishment for violating their property, bodies, civil rights. Nor did they get compensated for damages to their property or bodies.

That cop supposedly is a National Guard Soldier. A Fascist one who failed to adhere to the Oath he took.

Originally posted by brokedown
This is a prime example in why we should NOT hire Veterans as law enforcement in this country.

For months this thug was kicking down doors, man-handling the occupants under the protection of the Military overseas.

Comes home and repeats the same behavior, without a second thought.

+1

This is what i was going to say as well.

If you want to be law enforcement, you can not have military training, period. Other than the people pulling their strings, the biggest problem with police is that they are brainwashed, trained killers.

A friend of mine quit the Santa Rosa, CA police department for this exact reason. There were 2 cops on his shift that were particularly bad. One of them beats people up at every opportunity and another one expressed many times that he can't wait until he gets a chance to shoot someone and get away with it.

My friend also told me that they "fudge" the psych exam for these types because otherwise they would never be allowed to be police.

True story.

Anyone that supports someone getting assaulted and their property destroyed for "hanging a flag upside down" should they themselves be assaulted.

Honestly, get a grip. Oh no, they put the flag upside down, the horror. This won't stand for long in Nazi Amererka.

If this story is true, and that they had their door kicked in, windows broken, and were physically abused/assaulted, then it seems to me then they were literally in f-ing distress from the authorities. So seems like it was appropriate, no? Ever think maybe out-of-control govt. and unaccountable military and police is why the hung the damn flag upside-down in the first place? Ever think of that? Looks like they proved their point.

Honestly, cops who conduct themselves in this manner, and completely abuse people like this, and then lie about it, including the SHERIFF lying, should all be sent to jail for life, or executed. It is absolutely, completely disgusting and terrifying.

Originally posted by alaskan

Originally posted by woogleuk
Here you go, heres your story

Activists arrested in row over protest flag, allege abuse by Buncombe deputy

I just wanted to point out one ridiculous thing in that article...

The male victim was arrested for "assault" on the officer, for this...

According to Deborah Kuhn, Scarborough “tried to force the door, but we got it closed and locked it with the deadbolt. He then kicked it, punched the glass out, unlocked our door and came after us.”

The sheriff’s office report states that “the man [Mark Kuhn] refused to identify himself and slammed the door on the officer’s hand, breaking the glass pane out of the door and cutting the officer’s hand.”

However, the Kuhns’ account is backed up by Jimmy Stevenson, who was working with Ace Hardwood Floors nearby and asserts that he saw Scarborough break down the door.

“I saw that one cop [Scarborough] pull up and I saw those people come out on the porch and start talking to him,” Stevenson said. “They took their flag down, asked the officer to leave and closed the door. Then he started kicking the door, he kicked it about five or six good times, then he laid right into it. After he got done kicking it, he broke the window out – I saw him hit the window.”

Deborah Kuhn says that Scarborough then “pursued my husband into the kitchen, they were scuffling, [and] Mark was trying to get away from him. He pulls out his billy club and I call 911 and say that an officer has broken into our house and is assaulting us.”

Scarborough sustained a cut to his arm when the window broke and Mark Kuhn had several cuts on his face from the scuffle with Scarborough.

“I was just trying to defend myself and back away from him,” Kuhn said. “They never, ever told us why we were being arrested until we were in jail.”

That whole department is a joke

I absolutely believe this. I had a situation several years back, it ended in a felony conviction for a crime I did not commit. I committed a misdemeanor, yes, but not the felony they coerced me to plea to. Our system is broken and corrupt everywhere, not just in that town. Police lie with impunity. Prosecutors encourage police to lie in order to boost their conviction rates. Judges convict people who can not prove their innocence. Defense lawyers sell-out clints for future favorable plea agreements. Every one of those things happened to me, and I know I'm not alone.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is just as dead as the constitution. Nice concept in theory, but in practice, you seriously have to prove your innocence, all a prosecutor needs to do is make an accusation.

And here I was thinking America was supposed to be the land of the free.....or at least that's what the die hard patriots would like us to believe. Pity the evidence is to the contrary.

Oh and one more thing...

Its just a flag people, a piece of material sown together in some factory somewhere.

reply to post by Kryties


Made in China most likely. Seriously.

I honestly hate this country. It is completely gone.

reply to post by SyphonX


Hehe good call mate, I was thinking the same myself.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
These people should not have been assaulted...But they should show respect to the flag.

So america is a free country right? And like you have freedom of speech right? and so you can set the flag on fire without being arrested right? Because you have the freedom to display the flag and love it or burn it, or hang it upside down signalling that america is in distress, because that's what some people feel, right?

"Oh nooo show respect to the flag...". Gimme a break. SHOW RESPECT TO THE PEOPLE. They have the right to do what they want to that flag because they live in a free country, with free speech, which they would be happy and proud of. So if they hang it upside down as a signal for distress, they're saying that America is in distress, which could be thier belief. Though perhaps they hung the flag upside down because they ran out of coffee and were distressed about the situation and just wanted to let other people know.

They shouldn't be assaulted. They shouldn't even need to be questioned or even comment as to why they have it upside down.

RESPECT YOUR RIGHTS AND EVERYONE ELSE'S RIGHTS TO!!!

reply to post by Blue Shift

Even though Kuhn took the flag down, the officer immediately demanded that the couple show their ID’s and when they refused told them to put their hands behind their back and was about to arrest them before the couple shut and locked the door.

You really need to READ what happened. Kuhn was asked to show ID - he refused. The officer told them to put their hands behind their backs - they slammed the door in his face.

At this point the issue was NOT ABOUT THE FLAG!

It is no different than if the couple were pulled over for speeding, asked to show their IDs and in stead slammed the car in gear and took off.

I have had the police knock on my door because a idiot squirrel got caught between the electric fence wire and the board on my horse fence and die of fright. My neighbor made a complaint.

If I had reacted as the Kuhn's had I would have been treated in the same manner. Instead I sent the charger to the manufacturer. The manufacturer sent a letter to the mayor stating the fence was working properly and small animals caught in that manner died of fright and not from the charger. A pain in the rear but no problem.

In the Kuhn's case the big question is WHY not show the ID???? Here Illegally? Kuhn is not their real name and they are wanted for a crime?

The cop had every right to pursue someone "resisting arrest"

reply to post by Pervius

I'd just like to say that the info you've posted from JonesReport .com is confirmed by the American Civil Liberties Union of Nth Carolina on this page where it says:

State v. Kuhn -- The ACLU-NC Legal Foundation recently came to the aid of an Asheville couple arrested for flying their American flag upside-down with protest signs pinned to it. On Wednesday, July 25, 2007, Mark and Deborah Kuhn were arrested and charged with flag desecration, resisting arrest and two counts of assault on a government employee stemming from the scuffle that ensued when Buncombe County Sheriff’s deputy Brian Scarborough broke into their home to place them under arrest. ACLU-NCLF Board President Bruce Elmore represented the Kuhns immediately after they were released from jail on a $1,500 bond. Mr. Elmore successfully persuaded Buncombe County District Attorney Ron Moore to drop all charges against the Kuhns and secured a public pronouncement from Sheriff Van Duncan that North Carolina’s flag desecration law is unconstitutional and cannot be enforced.

(Bolding and underlining mine. At the above link, scroll down the page about half-way to find this report.)

Interesting that a Sheriff is apparently in a position to give public opinion on his State's constitution.

I have not been able to find out what happened to deputy Scarborough.

EDIT:
reply to post by crimvelvet

I have to agree. While the intial matter was about the flag, it seems that when the Kuhns refused to cooperate then the whole situation became rather more serious. It beats me why they didn't just show ID, accept the citation and fight the matter in court. I'm sure the ACLU would still have offered them support in that case.

Mike

reply to post by crimvelvet


None of us are under any obligation to show ID no matter how badly the cops whine for it.

Amazing how that's always used as an excuse to justify bad cop behavior when the act of refusing to provide ID isnt a crime in the first place.

You commit no crime and the cop asks for ID, then you fail to provide the ID (again, not a crime) and suddenly the cops are wholly justified in kicking in your door and restraining you? I dont think so.

Originally posted by JustMike
reply to post by Pervius

 

It beats me why they didn't just show ID, accept the citation and fight the matter in court. I'm sure the ACLU would still have offered them support in that case.

I would say the look of death on the Deputies face may have had something to do with it. I don't care whether you are a heroin dealer or a 5 Star General - if someone came at me with a look of death on their face (and a gun at their hip) I would run the other way as fast as my little legs could carry me.

The actions of the police ironically show the Kuhns were correct in flying their flag upside down. Our Constitution is in grave danger and that means our country is in serious distress. We are fast becoming a police state. Right now the police can do pretty much anything to you and you have no real recourse, short of maybe spending thousands in a law suit. They will break into your home on false pretenses and shot you for holding a hair dryer and the press will support them. The public will say it was a tragic accident. Flags should be flown up side down around the country. The greater problem is most Americans, including most responding on this thread, don't even seem to get it.

You have to love the irony of ATS'ers saying essentially that "those people were spoiling for a fight" and that somehow justifies their liberties being violently assaulted by an armed respresentative of the government.

In my opinion, the cop should be brought up on treason charges for violent assault of the Constitution and citizens, should be fired, pension taken away, barred from ever working in law enforcement and made to serve minimum 5 years in federal prison.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I'm sorry, but I'm not an American and I didn't know that in the US people are under no obligation to show ID to police when asked for it. I wasn't trying to offer an excuse.

reply to post by Kryties

Not sure where your "look of death" reference comes from. Perhaps I missed it. I understand that the deputy told the Kuhns he was issuing a citation and that he asked for ID.

I doubt that fleeing from police would go down well. If they wish to stop you, then they I expect they have the right to do so. But again, maybe in the US they don't have the right and have to just let you run away. I don't know. But I find the info from US-savvy members very instructive.

Mike

reply to post by JustMike


www.mountainx.com...

According to Deborah Kuhn, Scarborough “tried to force the door, but we got it closed and locked it with the deadbolt. He then kicked it, punched the glass out, unlocked our door and came after us.”

Kicking in a door and punching out door-glass sound to me like this was one pretty pissed off cop.