Family abused for hanging American flag upside down.

Fact remains, regardless of the flag, there is a blatant infringement of the 4th Amendment right, not to mention assault and battery charges. Oh lest we forget, breaking and entering, wrongful arrest....gee it would seem the list keeps going....

ASHEVILLE — A couple who said they were protesting the state of the country by flying the U.S. flag upside down with signs pinned to it found themselves in jail following a scuffle with a deputy Wednesday morning.
Mark and Deborah Kuhn were arrested on two counts of assault on a government employee, resisting arrest and a rarely used charge, desecrating an American flag, all misdemeanors. The Kuhns were released from custody Wednesday afternoon.

found an Aftermath article


www.citizen-times.com...

This is a prime example in why we should NOT hire Veterans as law enforcement in this country.

For months this thug was kicking down doors, man-handling the occupants under the protection of the Military overseas.

Comes home and repeats the same behavior, without a second thought.

reply to post by machines4200


The citizen is who is facing criminal charges, not the perpetrator of the crimes against the constitution.

Just another tactic learned from Hitler.

This isn't a "sensitive" subject. This is like the thread about muslims being offended by yodeling.

Their freedom of expression isn't hurting anyone or infringing upon their rights, and it's not even contriversial.


..."Bro."

Why harass them?
At least they are flying the flag and care enough to put it in the distress display.
Nothing worse than fake patriots who have to attack others to make themselves feel better.

Slamming a door on a deputys' hand is a very poor idea.

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


I do not find many similarities between this thread and the one about Muslims being offended by Yodeling. These people were assaulted in their own home.

Some people will say they deserved it, some will say they didn't.

I disagree, and do find discussing certain subjects such as turning upside down or burning a countries flag as a sensitive subject. Some people live and die for that flag, it is part of their heart and soul. I am not that type of person, I am just saying that I won't go burning any flags in front of anyone and expect not to get at least a dirty look, maybe even shot at.

Were Brian Scarborough a sentient being, rather than state enforcement agent, he would have let the matter drop. It's likely that even ten years ago, the typical Deputy Sheriff in this situation would have simply asked the couple to take down their flag, tipped his hat, and left it at that.

But this is the era of the "New Police Professionalism," and Scarborough is an agent of the Homeland Security State. He was clad in the majesty of the regime, and the Kuhns had refused to submit to his will. Accordingly, he kicked the door, punched out the glass (thereby cutting his hand, a consequence he was apparently too dim to foresee), and forced his way inside.

Scarborough would later insist that Kuhn inflicted that injury by slamming the door on his hand. He lied, of course: Several eyewitnesses confirm that the Deputy cut himself breaking in to the Kuhns' home.

Having committed an act of criminal trespass, Scarborough then compounded that crime with assault by making threats of violence against the Kuhns, as Deborah reported in a frantic phone call to 911. Her gesture evinced a touchingly misplaced faith in the possibility of casting out Beelzebub by the power of Beelzebub: Once the police learned that one of their own was in trouble, five additional squad cars converged on the scene.

This was done to deal with an unarmed, non-violent couple who had displayed their flag in a way incompatible with the tenets of aggrieved nationalism.

Scarborough seized Mark, thereby committing aggravated battery; Mark escaped and fled outside, where he was pursued by several police as astonished neighbors gathered.

One of the officers produced a taser and threatened to shoot Mark with it — an act that should be considered assault with a deadly weapon. The same hero made the same threat against Deborah.

Mark submitted and was handcuffed. As the arrest unfolded, Staff Sgt. Radford, a REMF with nothing better to do than harass local civilians, drove past the Kuhns' home and heckled them: "Go to jail, baby!"

After reading the article and the posts, there are a few things that can be said. Before I go into this, a bit of a research led to the following, and they are interesting to read:
Spence vs. Washington, 1974
Texas vs. Johnson, 1989
In these 2 cases, the question on how to hang and treat the flag was brought before the United States Supreme Court. In the first case, the question on how to treat a flag, that was hanging, from a window of a private property, along with a peace sign on it, was upheld by the court as a freedom of speech.
Ultimately, the question must be asked what did they couple do that was so wrong? They hung a flag upside down, and that is not really a crime. They did not desecrate it, or show it disrespect, rather they turned around and expressed an opinion. Most courts and lawyers are well versed with Supreme Court designs and will use those to determine if they can win or not. In this case, there is a good chance that the couple can win on some points. It was their private flag and thus they are entitled to do what they desire to do with it, no matter how distasteful it may be, anything else would violate the Freedom of Speech.

they were saying the desicration wasnt from being upside down.. they had a picture of Bush pined to it saying "OUT NOW" ... theres your "desicration". lol

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


People died for the ideals they thought the flag represented, one which i imagine is freedom and the right for these people to do whatever the hell they like with the damn thing, whether that is hanging it upside down, burning it etc etc It is simply childish for people to get worked up about what someone does to a piece of cloth imo...

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

People died for the ideals they thought the flag represented, one which i imagine is freedom and the right for these people to do whatever the hell they like with the damn thing, whether that is hanging it upside down, burning it etc etc It is simply childish for people to get worked up about what someone does to a piece of cloth imo...

edit on 15-12-2010 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

i quite agree.. i never understood the whole legal issue behind a piece of material.... ... burning another countrys flag might be disrespectfull.. how ever i think the same rule would apply....who cares...

Again.. oddly enough an american can probably burn another countrys flag an no one would care...figures.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Well,! When he broke down my door and opened the dead bolt…… without a warrant I would have shot him dead!

Everyone always asks where do we draw the line and take action. Well, for me, that is where I would have drawn the line….. And my gun!

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


To me, it is only a flag. To protest the actions of the U.S government is to use the very thing that THEY respect AGAINST them by flying it upside down.

Americans should have a right to do whatever they please with the flag, even if they want to wipe their asses with it or use it as a hankie.

I believe I am going to make my gif on the back of the header on my Constitution page upside down, on my website I mean.

Thanks for the story and the inspiration.

Where is this deputy when Westboro Baptist Church is around???

Unleash him in Topeka, where he will really get angry.

thank god i live in a country where the flag is always the right way around.

we simply do not have to worry about it.

Here you go-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4227344dcecf.gif[/atsimg]

Originally posted by saltheart foamfollower
Here you go-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4227344dcecf.gif[/atsimg]

I have to tell you all... im happy this thread is doing even half as well as it is... apparently when i post threads i usually get half this forum ripping me a new one...not that iv posted that many new threads...(this one being number 2 or 3) and to tell you the truth i didnt know until after i re-read the post that this all happened in 2007 (since i got it in a work email this morning as a few co-workers have interest in this also) i thought for sure you guys would toss this thread down...

Most of the reason i posted it was simply ... a flag is a symbol... what it means to you in YOUR heart is up to YOU and no one else. no matter how patriotic you are it still means something different no matter what country your from....some people couldnt give a $%& if they seen someone pissing and vomiting on their flag...they might just laugh..then some people will pull out a gun and shoot them. ( yea im just over reacting to show one side from another). But there should not be ONE person on Earth even if its Jesus or Allah or WHO EVER you believe in, to be able to tell you what your flag should mean to you. After all... no one forced us to believe in God, Allah , or any of the "Gods" . who should tell you what a clothe should mean to you.

Again im glad I've at least put a decent thread up that most people still had something to say about it even though i later realized this all happened in 2007.

ps: i googled the hell out of this story and was still unable to find out what happened to this couple after court. If anyone finds anything i would love to read about it.

Peace on Earth!

Yeah, my first comment was a driveby. Sorry OP.

I think I have discussed this incident at another website. For some reason, it kicks me in the memory zone. You know, kind of like a little tickle when you KNOW you discussed this before, almost like deja vu?

I remember saying that I have seen flags flying upside down around the country when I was still traveling about doing construction, which has not happened now in 2 years. I then stated that I would for now on stop and talk with those that have done this, to get there ideas and grievances.

Our government is in the state of flux, it does not know how far to push the envelope. I am thinking that it is reminiscent of another era. Some do not see it, but I do. It really has nothing to do with the economy or the prevalence of poverty whatsoever. I am impoverished at this time. It does not mean I have given up hope or that I have relegated my beliefs to be wrong. It has only proven my beliefs that the government is NOT the solution, that it is the problem. It has ALWAYS been the problem.

Personal responsibility and protection. Protection against an ever increasing oligarchy type system. The government and the sychophants of that system believe they know what is best for us. We can all see that they have not once thought what was best for the individual, but what was best for the system itself. They have stolen an entire generation's labor for the furtherance of their dream of world governance.

I believe this story is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg on our horizon, we either make the choice that we are to be free to decide on our own trappings of freedom (which they are trappings) or we are destined to have the government become a tyrant in amongst us.

You will see me as a pillar of freedom, for I will not and cannot let someone else design my destiny.

Cry FREEDOM!