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You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?
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reply to post by byteshertz
Actually, that's wrong as well. You see, there is not much difference between the intellegence of a high earner and a low earner. The glaring difference is in the level of DRIVE and INITIATIVE.
As to society being more edumacated today. False, Kids go to school and learn about sex ed, how to keyboard, liberal civics, gender neutrality and a false sense of "self-esteem".
Back in the 1700's they read actual books. They studied MATH. ENGLISH And the most vital knowlege, HISTORY.
Remember those eloquent speeches Lincoln gave? Perhaps not, as you may be a victim of the public school system. However, know this..He wrote them himself. He didn't employ a focus group, spin doctors and speech writers.
I have a son who is 22 and is edumacated with only a GED. He makes a six figure income. I didn't set him up. The kid absorbed some drive and initiative from his old man. Business owners easily recognize this quality and will invest time and money to harness it.
Actually, that's wrong as well. You see, there is not much difference between the intellegence of a high earner and a low earner. The glaring difference is in the level of DRIVE and INITIATIVE.
As to society being more edumacated today. False, Kids go to school and learn about sex ed, how to keyboard, liberal civics, gender neutrality and a false sense of "self-esteem".
Back in the 1700's they read actual books. They studied MATH. ENGLISH And the most vital knowlege, HISTORY.
Remember those eloquent speeches Lincoln gave? Perhaps not, as you may be a victim of the public school system. However, know this..He wrote them himself. He didn't employ a focus group, spin doctors and speech writers.
I have a son who is 22 and is edumacated with only a GED. He makes a six figure income. I didn't set him up. The kid absorbed some drive and initiative from his old man. Business owners easily recognize this quality and will invest time and money to harness it.
I am in the process of starting a new company here in California. Our product will be 100% Made in Ameria and our plastic has an additive that will
make it Certified Biodegradable in a landfill. Sure..We could of taken the shortcut..made it in China..used regular plastic..and sold our new
products. We did'nt.. It cost us MORE money out of pocket in R and D and tooling to keep it here in the U.S.
Product should go Global and take off.
Soooo.. WE put ALL our money and savings into a new idea...put our weiners on the train track at 100MPH..(RISK) And work 16 hours a day... And NOW someone wants to cap our earnings?
Confirmed-- Fed employees AVERAGE wage is $150,000. I'm not entitled to make more money? Says who, the Feds? The regulator makes more then the creator of a product? That does'nt even justify a reponce in MY America. Now... Do I hire employees at my rate of pay? Work should be PERFORMANCE based. NOT time served.. Who's going to pay me to train someone what I know? I can be out selling our product. NO.. I'll hire and train someone to learn what I know,and if they PERFORM,they can increase their wages.
I already have friends and family wanting me to "hook" them up. I would rather give them money for free..then hire deadweight..Non Performance non productive people CAN"T work for my company.
And yes..we're hiring physically challanged labor at a HIRE rate of labor to give back to the community, and give those less fortunate,and unable to work elseware in the workforce, a chance to be productive to society.
To say how much I'm allowed to earn is an insult to America. I worked for it and want it. Don't forget for every dime I EARN,I already payed 50% into taxes.. Can I please keep the rest?
Product should go Global and take off.
Soooo.. WE put ALL our money and savings into a new idea...put our weiners on the train track at 100MPH..(RISK) And work 16 hours a day... And NOW someone wants to cap our earnings?
Confirmed-- Fed employees AVERAGE wage is $150,000. I'm not entitled to make more money? Says who, the Feds? The regulator makes more then the creator of a product? That does'nt even justify a reponce in MY America. Now... Do I hire employees at my rate of pay? Work should be PERFORMANCE based. NOT time served.. Who's going to pay me to train someone what I know? I can be out selling our product. NO.. I'll hire and train someone to learn what I know,and if they PERFORM,they can increase their wages.
I already have friends and family wanting me to "hook" them up. I would rather give them money for free..then hire deadweight..Non Performance non productive people CAN"T work for my company.
And yes..we're hiring physically challanged labor at a HIRE rate of labor to give back to the community, and give those less fortunate,and unable to work elseware in the workforce, a chance to be productive to society.
To say how much I'm allowed to earn is an insult to America. I worked for it and want it. Don't forget for every dime I EARN,I already payed 50% into taxes.. Can I please keep the rest?
Look at the salary differences between Chinese and Americans.
Someone who waits in China would earn $200/month because they don't get tipped.
Someone who waits in the West can earn up to $4000/month due to minimum wage and tipping.
Someone who works in a semiconductor factory in India earns $200/month.
Someone who does ANYTHING related to "high tech" stuff in the West is "expecting" to earn $100k/year.
What's amazing is that things like clothing can be MORE expensive in those those 3rd world nations.
I've lived for 8 years in China and India, all I can say is that people spent 75% of their money on food. And that's for a plastic surgeon.
What does this say about us Westerners?
We inflate our skills. We think were better than everyone else and thus deserve more for the same amount of output.
Someone who waits in China would earn $200/month because they don't get tipped.
Someone who waits in the West can earn up to $4000/month due to minimum wage and tipping.
Someone who works in a semiconductor factory in India earns $200/month.
Someone who does ANYTHING related to "high tech" stuff in the West is "expecting" to earn $100k/year.
What's amazing is that things like clothing can be MORE expensive in those those 3rd world nations.
I've lived for 8 years in China and India, all I can say is that people spent 75% of their money on food. And that's for a plastic surgeon.
What does this say about us Westerners?
We inflate our skills. We think were better than everyone else and thus deserve more for the same amount of output.
reply to post by byteshertz
I sincerly hope you get a thousand stars just for embedding that video. I have copied it to my home library and intend to send a Utube link of it to President Obama in my weekly e-mail to him (yes I'm hopeful somebody in DC might view it.)
Everyone needs to watch this video, copy it and send it to as many people as possible.
There are quite a few very insightful individuals expressing ideas on how we can get out of this economical nightmare we are currently in.
Excellent, thank you for sharing
I hope the moderators bring this video to the higher ups at ATS.
I sincerly hope you get a thousand stars just for embedding that video. I have copied it to my home library and intend to send a Utube link of it to President Obama in my weekly e-mail to him (yes I'm hopeful somebody in DC might view it.)
Everyone needs to watch this video, copy it and send it to as many people as possible.
There are quite a few very insightful individuals expressing ideas on how we can get out of this economical nightmare we are currently in.
Excellent, thank you for sharing
I hope the moderators bring this video to the higher ups at ATS.
reply to post by archasama
Yes, but if the American People do not wake up, unite and rebel we are going to find ourselves in the exact same boat as the Chinese....................the middle class of America is being dismantled, slowly but surely.
Look at the economical trend over the last fifty years.
The wealth is systematically floating to the top.
The trickle down theory does not work.
Our current money system and governing system does not work.
It is time for some real changes.
It's time to get creative and think outside the box we have been placed into.
Yes, but if the American People do not wake up, unite and rebel we are going to find ourselves in the exact same boat as the Chinese....................the middle class of America is being dismantled, slowly but surely.
Look at the economical trend over the last fifty years.
The wealth is systematically floating to the top.
The trickle down theory does not work.
Our current money system and governing system does not work.
It is time for some real changes.
It's time to get creative and think outside the box we have been placed into.
WOW.....!
Just reading the post really makes me wonder how some of you can live with your selves after this country was just scammed out of the biggest high way robbery of the century with the bank bail outs. All of everyones anger shouldn't be waged at the class war fare in the world. It should be aimed straight at wall street. I was set to retire at 55 which here in the U.S. if your not big balla rich is a pretty damn good feat...Now..maybe 65 if I'm lucky and I'm 38 now...My 401k,e,b and retirement investments which I was told over,and over by my adviser was safe your going to be fine...2 years ago I recieved a letter and statement my retirement pummeled...My adviser..resigned after recieving a 4 million dollar bonus the day before all his quarterly statement letters were released he has vanished the firm has since collapsed only to rise from the ashes as a new firm under a new name. I have now taken all my money out of investments and now sit on tangable retirement options no certificates and paper. I will work till my hands dont allow or health and see what happens. We should not be angry with others over there success or lack ofwe should be madat the institutes who have engineered these games. They are mulling over to the retirement age being raised to 69. And they are the reason were in this mess.
finance.yahoo.com...
People you need to rediret your anger as a community at the instituions and not the people. And by instututions I mean the people behind them that work deals that have put us in this mess. Joe 9-5 at the desk is not calling the shot were talking about a class of wealthy people who are toying with us they are untouchable untracable they live a life at the top and there are only a hand full.
Just reading the post really makes me wonder how some of you can live with your selves after this country was just scammed out of the biggest high way robbery of the century with the bank bail outs. All of everyones anger shouldn't be waged at the class war fare in the world. It should be aimed straight at wall street. I was set to retire at 55 which here in the U.S. if your not big balla rich is a pretty damn good feat...Now..maybe 65 if I'm lucky and I'm 38 now...My 401k,e,b and retirement investments which I was told over,and over by my adviser was safe your going to be fine...2 years ago I recieved a letter and statement my retirement pummeled...My adviser..resigned after recieving a 4 million dollar bonus the day before all his quarterly statement letters were released he has vanished the firm has since collapsed only to rise from the ashes as a new firm under a new name. I have now taken all my money out of investments and now sit on tangable retirement options no certificates and paper. I will work till my hands dont allow or health and see what happens. We should not be angry with others over there success or lack ofwe should be madat the institutes who have engineered these games. They are mulling over to the retirement age being raised to 69. And they are the reason were in this mess.
finance.yahoo.com...
People you need to rediret your anger as a community at the instituions and not the people. And by instututions I mean the people behind them that work deals that have put us in this mess. Joe 9-5 at the desk is not calling the shot were talking about a class of wealthy people who are toying with us they are untouchable untracable they live a life at the top and there are only a hand full.
edit on 11/29/2010 by tsloan because: (no reason
given)
Originally posted by die_another_day
What does this say about us Westerners?
We inflate our skills. We think were better than everyone else.
No.
and thus deserve more for the same amount of output.
No. We think we "deserve" what we can manage to get since people get paid based on supply and demand, not on how much we deserve. Labor supply is high in China..If you arbitrarily destroy the supply/demand curve there will be less total jobs. You can force salaries more equal though theft and coercion but the pie hugely shrinks.
As has been pointed out numerous times, the idea that some group of thugs can get together to decide what I deserve, then steal my property if they "don't think I deserve it", is off the wall outrageous.
I dont think anyone is worth more than 150,000 a year. I dont care if you have 3 Masters Degrees, speak 5 languages, and saved Dell and many other
corporations from going under.
Truth of the matter you just arent worth more than that in a salary sense.
As a human life, that there is no one exactly like you...you are priceless.
Truth of the matter you just arent worth more than that in a salary sense.
As a human life, that there is no one exactly like you...you are priceless.
To the OP, you are a whiner. Your logic is the reason you have no money. I didn't come from any money. I come from a single parent home. I
studied in high school. I took out loans to go to college. I studied there. I took out more loans to go to med school. I studied there. Now I do
very well for myself and my family, and I have about 150K in student loans that I am paying back. I make over 200K a year and deserve every penny I
make. Do I work harder than the guy that digs ditches on the highway? Not physically no. But mentally, very much. He screws up in a big way, and
they need to repave a spot in the road. I screw up and someone dies. When you go to the doctor, don't you want someone that knows what they are
doing. Someone that is accountable for their decisions? Its not all about physical labor my friend. Most of it is about accountablilty. If you
really look around, you will find that the people that make the most money probably have the most accountablility as well.
Give me a break!
Stop directing and redirecting your anger to anyone else different from YOURSELF! Haven't you ever questioned the monetary system? C'mon, you should have at least watched that old Zeitgeist movie. I'm not saying it's all good, but it could at least make you think over what is really going on. But all you do is blindly accepting or debunking stuff.
Think! I will say it again and pray for someone to hear it this time:
The "wealth" is the carrot on a stick for you - the mules of the governments! And it is not them who are making you run after!
Stop directing and redirecting your anger to anyone else different from YOURSELF! Haven't you ever questioned the monetary system? C'mon, you should have at least watched that old Zeitgeist movie. I'm not saying it's all good, but it could at least make you think over what is really going on. But all you do is blindly accepting or debunking stuff.
Think! I will say it again and pray for someone to hear it this time:
The "wealth" is the carrot on a stick for you - the mules of the governments! And it is not them who are making you run after!
edit on
11-11-2010 by ElevenFlint because: (no reason given)
I don't disagree with people earning $200k. It's there for anyone who's willing to work for it.
My gripe is with the corporations who buy out politicians in order to have whatever industry regulated to suit their increased profits.
When talking about the richest 1% of the US population that retains about 25% of the nations wealth, we're not talking about individuals ... it's corporations and the individuals (making tens of millions per year) that run the corporations that I'm concerned about.
My gripe is with the corporations who buy out politicians in order to have whatever industry regulated to suit their increased profits.
When talking about the richest 1% of the US population that retains about 25% of the nations wealth, we're not talking about individuals ... it's corporations and the individuals (making tens of millions per year) that run the corporations that I'm concerned about.
"When you make money, directly or indirectly, you have to take that wealth from someone else."
in a free market system wealth is transferring willingly by all parties involved in the exchange. money is not taken from other people except when the govt creates inflation or it's stolen, both are criminal!
in a free market system wealth is transferring willingly by all parties involved in the exchange. money is not taken from other people except when the govt creates inflation or it's stolen, both are criminal!
Originally posted by superluminal11
I dont think anyone is worth more than 150,000 a year. I dont care if you have 3 Masters Degrees, speak 5 languages, and saved Dell and many other corporations from going under.
Truth of the matter you just arent worth more than that in a salary sense.
As a human life, that there is no one exactly like you...you are priceless.
I can't believe your contradiction. In one post you say I can't be worth more than $150,000 per year, meaning there is some way you've assigned my price. Yet in the same post you claim you cannot attach a price tag, saying I'm "priceless". Either you can attach a price or you can't. You want it both ways. Your whole idea, and the whole idea of the OP, that people can be assigned a money value, is ridiculous. And yes, that is exactly what you are doing when you say people cannot be worth more than $150,000 per year as if people get paid what they "deserve" rather than market prices. You seem so focused on the idea that people "deserve" a certain amount of money for certain things and yet people don't really deserve money for anything at all. Money is simply a way of trading only.
If you want to help the poor get what they need, you should focus on practical economics supported by real-life studies and charity, rather than supporting or becoming one of those who boss people around over some vague notion of fairness. The real-life studies are going to show salary caps or wealth caps do nothing for the poor. Its basic math as far as I'm concerned and I won't waste time so much as looking at them. I've already seen that the more economic freedom a country has, the lower the level of poverty. That is why nobody starves to death in Hong Kong and Singapore, the most economically free countries in the world.
edit on 11-11-2010 by civilchallenger because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by byteshertz
...If you guys are so smart then why dont you understand that this is all a pyramid scheme.
We can not all be on the top, or there would be no one to do the work...
edit on 10-11-2010 by byteshertz because: typos
"It" isn't a scheme. "It" is life. Human nature doesn't allow for everyone to be at the top. All people have Ambition and Passion and Focus and Attitude in different degrees. People naturally raise or fall in relation to each other.
Isn't THAT what you're complaining about? How do you expect to regulate NATURE? extra DIV
reply to post by byteshertz
If someone thinks your worth 200k to do a job and hires you for it you won't say no, now would you?
Would you donate half your salary or ask for less because of what you believe?
I doubt it, and saying you would is not proof positive. Actually following what you say is proof that you truly believe it.
Want to make 200k a year? Go back to school. Work hard, and dont let anything stop you. Thats why guys who make that deserve it, because they worked hard to get there.
Being jealous doesn't change that.
If someone thinks your worth 200k to do a job and hires you for it you won't say no, now would you?
Would you donate half your salary or ask for less because of what you believe?
I doubt it, and saying you would is not proof positive. Actually following what you say is proof that you truly believe it.
Want to make 200k a year? Go back to school. Work hard, and dont let anything stop you. Thats why guys who make that deserve it, because they worked hard to get there.
Being jealous doesn't change that.
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for
14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone
calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because
they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.
reply to post by trouthash
The amount of money you deserve is based on supply and demand, not how much you did to earn it. If I spend five years in art school and five thousand hours drawing a piece of crap stick figure, I "deserve" nothing because nobody wants what I have to offer. If I spend five minutes in art school and twenty minutes drawing the greatest piece of art anybody has ever seen, I "deserve" a boatload of money because that is what the marketplace will pay me. Its not that I've earned it or that I deserve it, its simply that we have an economic system in place and that is the natural result.
When people think about earning and deserving things, all logic goes out the window and its all opinion. Therefore what people deserve or have earned has almost zero relevance in real life. There is a saying: "Life isn't fair... get over it." Trying to make life fair and earn what you deserve is a fools game. If people want to work hard and earn $250,000 per year, good for them. If people want to be lazy and inherit $250,000 per year... good for them. If people work hard and earn $10,000 per year... better luck next time and hope you find some charity if you need it.
The amount of money you deserve is based on supply and demand, not how much you did to earn it. If I spend five years in art school and five thousand hours drawing a piece of crap stick figure, I "deserve" nothing because nobody wants what I have to offer. If I spend five minutes in art school and twenty minutes drawing the greatest piece of art anybody has ever seen, I "deserve" a boatload of money because that is what the marketplace will pay me. Its not that I've earned it or that I deserve it, its simply that we have an economic system in place and that is the natural result.
When people think about earning and deserving things, all logic goes out the window and its all opinion. Therefore what people deserve or have earned has almost zero relevance in real life. There is a saying: "Life isn't fair... get over it." Trying to make life fair and earn what you deserve is a fools game. If people want to work hard and earn $250,000 per year, good for them. If people want to be lazy and inherit $250,000 per year... good for them. If people work hard and earn $10,000 per year... better luck next time and hope you find some charity if you need it.
I work several jobs, 7 days a week, even on holidays. I make about 100,000/yr.
I do this to make ends meet, and so that my wife can stay home and raise my 3 yr old son.
I bust my but, and deserve eveything that I make. I'm sick and tired of the dead weight of society telling me what they deserve.
I'm also sick of people telling me that there are no jobs, and are on unemployment. I have always had a job, and never once took from the gov't (taxpayers). There are alot of jobs out there, people just don't want to do them, because they are either above that position, or just enjoying their gov't (taxpayer) ride.
I do this to make ends meet, and so that my wife can stay home and raise my 3 yr old son.
I bust my but, and deserve eveything that I make. I'm sick and tired of the dead weight of society telling me what they deserve.
I'm also sick of people telling me that there are no jobs, and are on unemployment. I have always had a job, and never once took from the gov't (taxpayers). There are alot of jobs out there, people just don't want to do them, because they are either above that position, or just enjoying their gov't (taxpayer) ride.
Originally posted by civilchallenger
Originally posted by superluminal11
I dont think anyone is worth more than 150,000 a year. I dont care if you have 3 Masters Degrees, speak 5 languages, and saved Dell and many other corporations from going under.
Truth of the matter you just arent worth more than that in a salary sense.
As a human life, that there is no one exactly like you...you are priceless.
I can't believe your contradiction. In one post you say I can't be worth more than $150,000 per year, meaning there is some way you've assigned my price. Yet in the same post you claim you cannot attach a price tag, saying I'm "priceless". Either you can attach a price or you can't. You want it both ways. Your whole idea, and the whole idea of the OP, that people can be assigned a money value, is ridiculous. And yes, that is exactly what you are doing when you say people cannot be worth more than $150,000 per year as if people get paid what they "deserve" rather than market prices. You seem so focused on the idea that people "deserve" a certain amount of money for certain things and yet people don't really deserve money for anything at all. Money is simply a way of trading only.
If you want to help the poor get what they need, you should focus on practical economics supported by real-life studies and charity, rather than supporting or becoming one of those who boss people around over some vague notion of fairness. The real-life studies are going to show salary caps or wealth caps do nothing for the poor. Its basic math as far as I'm concerned and I won't waste time so much as looking at them. I've already seen that the more economic freedom a country has, the lower the level of poverty. That is why nobody starves to death in Hong Kong and Singapore, the most economically free countries in the world.edit on 11-11-2010 by civilchallenger because: (no reason given)
There will come a time in the not too distant future your economies will fail.
After all....it takes hard work, drive, and perseverance as the prideful claim
Whats that book by Trump? "Think Big and Kick Ass"
As far as setting a price on you and then afterwards saying the opposite that you are priceless.
Your mention of Hong Kong and Singapore...interesting.
Living the Tao
Fuse the dichotomies, and the result is effortless action without attachment to outcome
edit on 11-11-2010 by superluminal11 because: (no
reason given)
As to the argument of the OP regarding skillset and how if everyone posessed the same skillset, it would be "the bottom". That is why I make more
than 200K a year, and others within my profession dont. Some make more than me, some less. It is about drive, passion, ability,etc. There are
always going to be those that want a nicer widget than the other guy. Those people will apply themselves in a way that gives them the oportunity to
buy the better widget. It isn't the system. This system wasn't here 10,000 years ago, but we had the same issues then. Some had bigger caves,
more dogs, more food, more women than others. They applied themselves to get that way. Stop yer bitchen
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