You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?

Originally posted by sasquatch5100
"When you make money, directly or indirectly, you have to take that wealth from someone else."

in a free market system wealth is transferring willingly by all parties involved in the exchange. money is not taken from other people except when the govt creates inflation or it's stolen, both are criminal!

Inflation is EMBEDDED in the monetary system. Is it so hard to grasp?

Isn't THAT what you're complaining about? How do you expect to regulate NATURE?

And stop with that "human nature" stuff because it's nonsense. Who told you what exactly "human nature" is? And how do you pretend to know? Human nature is not something that is given - it is something that is in constant flow, it is being constantly created and it is manipulative - by ourselves and everyone!

reply to post by byteshertz


O quit your whining!!!!

Obviously people that make more money than the average person, have done something extradinary to earn their wealth. Sure there are a select few that have done it in questionable ways, and a few that got lucky... But SERIOUSLY!!!! stop you whining, this is what American was founded upon! Capitalism, if you don't like it leave! do something productive

Just because somebody works hard, does NOT entitle them to high wages.... Ya it sucks, but thats how the world works. Working smarter, not harder!!! Personally, I think its common sense, and if somebody is willing to get stuck in the rat race and neglect the effort needed to get out... then thats exactly where they belong!

Its not hard to get out of the race, anybody can do it. Its just how much effort they want to expend in the process, and its all about applying yourself differently... Working smarter not Harder!

To put it nicely,,, YOU have absolutely no idea what you are talking about! to me this just looks like a desperate cry to garner some more stars and flags...

After Congress bankrupted the nation they created the Federal Reserve and to create funds for Congress all Birth Certificates showed as assets of the Corporation. Those birth certificates were traded/bought/sold/invested and Congress expected your net worth to be a minimum million dollars per person. This is what they used as collateral to get funds for the Federal Government. This funded Wallstreet and is hence why a worthless entity such as Yahoo or Google which has no physical value...is worth Billions. Investments from trading birth certificates.

Currently our Government wants you worth $0 to justify the Dollar being worthless. So we can have cheaper labor by debasing our currency. The Federal Reserve Act/trading our birth certificates on Wallstreet was very effective and is why we became the lone superpower. China opted into the same system and by default since they have a larger population is going to have the economic power to obtain all the worlds resources. They will rule Earth.

So the only plan to counter them was to destroy our currency so we are working with numbers even bigger than what China will be working with as their 1.4 Billion people start getting traded via their birth certificates.

So yes, given the Economic Warfare we have engaged in...we all deserve a minimum of $200k a year. I believe that should be considered the new Federal Poverty Level. If not the Chinese are going to win. Nobody will be investing in our Birth Certificates as the Chinese will have a higher expected yield over their lifetimes.

Originally posted by Sportbominable
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for 14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.

seriously? Your husband busts his butt for 14 hours a day because that is the profession he chose. He doesn't like it? Go back to school and work his tail off and do something else. I have friends like your husband. After high school they thought making $20 and hour sounded great and started doing construction or painting, etc. Guess what, 20 years later, they are making $28 an hour and physically busting their butts. I make ten times that, but didn't make a dime till I was about 28 years old because of so much school. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get lucky. I studied hard while my buddies partied. Now it pays off. Quit whinin

reply to post by byteshertz


Well for those of us that don't have a grudge against the 'rich', own businesses, investments, or property...I'd like to offer some criticism, hopefully constructive.

"Poor" people can be divided into different TYPES. I.E. There are certain reasons for being poor:

1) Deserved Poor: Gamblers, Drug Addicts, Lazy, Money Wasters, Etc. These types EARN their poverty through their own choices and lifestyles. No more needs to be said.

2) Unlucky or UNDESERVED poor: Victims of fraud, theft, bad health, bad luck, or any unfortunate situation that made them poor. These types are understandably angry about their poverty.

3) Working Poor: "Workers" happy to get a job, money savers for a little growth but they take an entire lifetime to build a nest egg. Usually taxed to death, have some dreams and ideas, but never fully go after them.

4) Ignorant Poor: Poor people that do not understand what makes "wealth" and don't want to know, think that having a 'good job' is the key. Usually have a grudge against 'rich'.


When I read your post I immediately was struck by how you said "poor people work hard too". Well, that may be exactly why they're poor. "Hard work" does not gain wealth in itself. In fact, the harder someone is working, it's usually a precursor to just getting by or poverty ITSELF.

Rich people don't 'work hard' they work SMART. They learned LEVERAGE. I'm not talking about the Paris Hilton's or any inheritors of the world...I'm talking about business owners, inventors, moguls, self made people.

Knowledge is a big key of it. Most people are ignorant of what it takes to be 'rich' or live a life geared toward leverage.

As you say though, many poor people opt out of the rat race, and that decision is fine. But they get no sympathy from me for WILLFULLY taking from a public fund because they don't want to try to build their own.

It takes a certain desire for wealth that most people don't have. And the person that says "to get rich you have to step on someone".....has NO CLUE what being wealthy or rich is. Many rich people I know are the best people you could know. Why?? Because they got there through honest dealings and relationships with people. They understand a give and take nature of life.

If I had a dollar for every poor person who thinks you need to be a scoundrel of some sort to make money....

My point is, ignorance is what makes most poor people, along with a mindset.

The rich people I know that EARNED it knew somewhere deep inside that you get one shot at life and they would rather spend it rich than poor, no matter what their outlook on life itself. They also learned the value of leverage and LEARNING how to think and tailor their lives around earning.

But if you equate 'rich' or 'poor' with a notion of 'hard work', then you're already out of the game. That's kind of a basic principle of wealth.

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by Sportbominable
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for 14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.

seriously? Your husband busts his butt for 14 hours a day because that is the profession he chose. He doesn't like it? Go back to school and work his tail off and do something else. I have friends like your husband. After high school they thought making $20 and hour sounded great and started doing construction or painting, etc. Guess what, 20 years later, they are making $28 an hour and physically busting their butts. I make ten times that, but didn't make a dime till I was about 28 years old because of so much school. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get lucky. I studied hard while my buddies partied. Now it pays off. Quit whinin

What exactly do you do. You seem to have plenty of time to post here while making that kind of money. Do you sit in a chair all day doing nothing?

reply to post by sasquatch5100


Sasquatch? Who wrote that ? Not an entrepenuer. The Creativity of America is what a standard of wealth HAS been guaged by worldwide. NOT just the money... NOT just the ability to mass produce it at a cheaper labor rate. THATS''s different . We take pride in our ingenuity.
We make the best Entertainment for the world, Reruns for television worlwide(heh),best software(so far) best movies,..we are still emulated by the rest of the world. We still have the the best design engineers. Where do all the best engineers from every country go to get an education? USA.. then what? Then they go home and teach everyone what they learned HERE..and they duplicate what they're taught. Do they teach the laborers? NO.
If a laborer in a foreign countrey does'nt have the wherewith all to get out of their rut..they stay there...and thats a crime.same here.. The engineer back home? Making bank..Here in the states? Between the the Bankers and the Feds..we're being robbed of our right to create new idea's and ultimatly new jobs.Just because you have an idea..has no merit the rest of the world wants to buy it. But new idea's need development,seed money,market feedback..and a souce of money that is quickly drying up everywhere.
Ask a venture capitalist how many new idea's they see,that have too much..out of pocket upfront expense, to see a return on investement in less then 5 years. They want to see a profit..or they don't want to loan you money.Is that a crime? He has 5 friends..they all drop 100,00K into a kitty to see if they can make more money then the banks pay.. 1 deal fails..FDA turns down their clinical trial data for another 3 years.next one..guess what? It takes off!! In your quote...they took someone elses monies? No, they took RISK.. And should be rewarded. NOT by how much YOU say.. How much profit can they make if people WANT their product.. Why is that a crime?

reply to post by byteshertz


i think when it comes to stating that "i work hard for the money i earn" it is a stupid statement, everybody in work works hard for their money, so if we are paid based on how hard we work then everybody should be paid a equal wage.

however it is not how hard somebody works that determines the wage, it is the skills you bring to that company and the importance of your role. that's what makes all the difference.

just thinking back to factories i use to work in, the person who essentially makes the product is important, but not as important as the guy who fixes the machines and keeps them maintained, nor as important as the guy who drives the length of the country to meet business people to win them over as potential customers, without him there would be no demand. they all work equally hard, but some are more important and irreplaceable than others, this is reflected in the salary.

Originally posted by byteshertz

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by byteshertz

 

Spoken like a guy who makes less than 200K per year. You have no idea regarding my skill level, the value I provide, or how much I make for my clients. Nor do you have a clue as to the level of skill, experience or insight I bring to the table, and my personal investment in developing those attributes. The fact is, I and others like me are worth what we make on the free market. That's how life works. Your problem is envy, jealousy, and lack of ability. If you've made bad choices in life, are lazy, or lack talent it will be reflected in your paycheck. Many of us struggled for years before finding a high level of success. Here's a tip. If you sit around and complain, it's a guarantee that you won't get there. I once knew a guy who hated backgammon, but it turned out he only hated it because he lost all the time.
Here's a clue. If I didn't make it, it still wouldn't wind up in your pocket.

For someone so skilled you dont see to understand simple concepts.
If we all had your skill level that would be the bottom. Im sure you would agree that, society as whole is more educated than we were 200 years ago. So everyone has increased their skill level, but the point is that those up the top are getting further ahead because money makes money - requiring more people to be on the top. Ill draw a little picture for you to help you out. so It eventually skillset will become pointless because it is only those with money making money... just use your superior knowledge to contemplate this for a second.
so we go from this:
..../
.../
./-------
to this:
....../
..../
/-----------

edit on 10-11-2010 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-11-2010 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-11-2010 by byteshertz because: my pyramids didnt work

but you know what i mean u end up witha huge base to support the peak because it is so high up

Wow, for someone with such high skill sets it is amazing you have no comprehension of anything.
Do you know what the OP does for a living?
How do you know what his SS is? Did you interview the OP?
Now here's where you fall off the rock -
When the pyramid collapses upon itself, which of those skill sets are you gonna use to keep what you have and feed yourself?
Please I'm dying to know.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

So you are saying Beyounce is worth more jiggling her booty around than the person you entrust your baby too or the teacher that is shaping your child's brain or the person who drives 12 hours straight to make sure your zucchinis and tomatoes stay nice and fresh and delievered on time for your dinner tomorrow night?

Get real................supply and demand.

I'de rather pay the truck driver, teacher and day care worker and diaper maker better than beyounce and lady gaga.

But, celebs and sports stars help generate money for other business. Beyonce sells CD's which are made by factories and employee people. When she goes on tour there are roadies and drivers and stadium employees working. Sports stars bring in money for the cities they play for in the same way. So are these celebs worth what they make? Maybe, maybe not. But the do help keep alot of people employeed. How many people is Beyonce keeping employeed? 10, 20, 1000?

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by Sportbominable
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for 14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.

seriously? Your husband busts his butt for 14 hours a day because that is the profession he chose. He doesn't like it? Go back to school and work his tail off and do something else. I have friends like your husband. After high school they thought making $20 and hour sounded great and started doing construction or painting, etc. Guess what, 20 years later, they are making $28 an hour and physically busting their butts. I make ten times that, but didn't make a dime till I was about 28 years old because of so much school. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get lucky. I studied hard while my buddies partied. Now it pays off. Quit whinin

What exactly do you do. You seem to have plenty of time to post here while making that kind of money. Do you sit in a chair all day doing nothing?

I'm a doctor and I took time this morning to catch up on paperwork and office BS, like payroll, reviews, building stuff, etc. Is that ok with you?

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by Sportbominable
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for 14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.

seriously? Your husband busts his butt for 14 hours a day because that is the profession he chose. He doesn't like it? Go back to school and work his tail off and do something else. I have friends like your husband. After high school they thought making $20 and hour sounded great and started doing construction or painting, etc. Guess what, 20 years later, they are making $28 an hour and physically busting their butts. I make ten times that, but didn't make a dime till I was about 28 years old because of so much school. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get lucky. I studied hard while my buddies partied. Now it pays off. Quit whinin

I have a bachelor's degree and am working on my master's degree and even though my husband never went to college I would still never say that I have worked harder than him. I was only referring to careers, not schooling. I guarantee my husband works harder than you. Keep in mind though that my husband and I are not jealous or whining. We just both hate when rich people say they work hard because they went to college and have a high paying desk job. Even if I eventually get my doctorate degree, I would still never say I work harder than a miner, construction worker, housekeeper, etc... and that's why I make more money.

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by Sportbominable
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for 14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.

seriously? Your husband busts his butt for 14 hours a day because that is the profession he chose. He doesn't like it? Go back to school and work his tail off and do something else. I have friends like your husband. After high school they thought making $20 and hour sounded great and started doing construction or painting, etc. Guess what, 20 years later, they are making $28 an hour and physically busting their butts. I make ten times that, but didn't make a dime till I was about 28 years old because of so much school. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get lucky. I studied hard while my buddies partied. Now it pays off. Quit whinin

What exactly do you do. You seem to have plenty of time to post here while making that kind of money. Do you sit in a chair all day doing nothing?

I'm a doctor and I took time this morning to catch up on paperwork and office BS, like payroll, reviews, building stuff, etc. Is that ok with you?

Sure and you had the urge to come in and brag about your salary. Let me ask you MR Doctor how many hours do you work a week?

reply to post by byteshertz

Sigh, even the greecs thought 2100 years ago that society would be most efficient if the richest man could earn only 4 times more than the poorest of society. Your post however doesn't point out anything outside common knowledge.

reply to post by The Wave


man let me give you a recap of my day yesterday. I wake up at 4 am and go work at my local private school as a janitor I get home at 3 pm and change real fast and go to Carrabbas Italian grill as a waiter i get home at 10 pm see my 2 little brother my sister and my mom who is disabled. i thank god that i am able to pay for their food. This is everyday... except Sunday on Sunday i go to morning church and spend time with my family.

Are you telling me i don't work hard enough because i don't have the opportunity to go to college???
Are u telling me i suck because i cant get a loan to start a damn buisness I had to max out my credit cards while I was looking for a damn job and now i live from pay check to pay check.

If i had time i would love to go to college i had a 4.0 in high school, but now Time changes and i have to make sure my family has food...

I find it funny how people always act like they got where they did with no help.

I dont care if you opened your own business, went to school etc SOMEONE along the way cut you a break and helped you out. Whether it was a bank loaning you money, a school loan, or someone you know helping you get started. Everyone had help from someone along the way in one form or another. So people dont come in here acting like you got where you did with NO help form anyone at all. SOMEONE cut you a break along the way no matter how small or big.

1) A lot of it is not what you know but who you know.
2) A lot of people who move up the fastest are the best brown nosers.

Great thread!

If everyone on Earth where scientists, brain surgeons, movie stars and writers....who would be our binmen/garbage men? The streets would be filled with rubbish and diseased ridden footpaths, no cleaners, no civil service.

We need garbage men as much as we need those who earn over $200k a year.

Everyone is their own master, even with the pyramid scheme a bin man can one day (maybe a year into his job) write a book when he returns from work. That bin man could make a lot of money doing that, you can multi task you know!

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by trouthash

Originally posted by Sportbominable
Most financially wealthy people DO NOT work hard for their money. Their money works hard for them. My husband works his butt off 5-7 days a week for 14 hours (sometimes more) doing construction. That's what you call working hard. Wearing your nice ironed suit sitting at a desk making a few phone calls does not constitute "working hard". Every rich person I personally know is greedy, selfish, cheap, and claims they have lots of money because they are smart and work hard. Bullcrap! You don't work hard, you got lucky, or you were given inheritance money.

seriously? Your husband busts his butt for 14 hours a day because that is the profession he chose. He doesn't like it? Go back to school and work his tail off and do something else. I have friends like your husband. After high school they thought making $20 and hour sounded great and started doing construction or painting, etc. Guess what, 20 years later, they are making $28 an hour and physically busting their butts. I make ten times that, but didn't make a dime till I was about 28 years old because of so much school. I didn't inherit money. I didn't get lucky. I studied hard while my buddies partied. Now it pays off. Quit whinin

What exactly do you do. You seem to have plenty of time to post here while making that kind of money. Do you sit in a chair all day doing nothing?

I'm a doctor and I took time this morning to catch up on paperwork and office BS, like payroll, reviews, building stuff, etc. Is that ok with you?

First off, I didn't start this thread, some whiner did. I didn't "brag" about my salary. Many in my profession do better than I do, some not as well. If I feel I could "brag" about anything, it is the hard work I put in for 4 years of college, 4 years of school, 2 years of residency. They last 6 years of school and residency I probably worked 70 plus hours a week and didn't even get paid other than a cost of living stipend that helped out with my apartment (which I was never at), You have no idea how hard I work. If you must know, I'm a dentist. Tell your husband to try and do construction work in a small, dark, wet environment where the project he is working on feels the pain whenever he works on it. I dont sit at a desk all day. I sit half hunched over a patient all day straining to keep my hands as true as they are. I've got a staff on 9 women that I manage as well, let me tell ya, thats alot of fun. I work about 35 hours a week now, but I've been out of school for 20 years. And, like I said earlier, it is all about accountability. A patient that would tell me I make too much money would be the first one to call me on a saturday begging me to come in and aleviate a terrible toothache.

Sure and you had the urge to come in and brag about your salary. Let me ask you MR Doctor how many hours do you work a week?

What kind of society would it be if everyone earned the same exact rate or we all had the nearly the same bank accounts?

Would anyone strive to make something different?

Inventions? Better Art? Better Services? Better ANYTHING?

And what would happen to those that do? Should they make pennies because "it's fair"?

Look, the world will always have it's rich and poor, barring some legislation that forces us to all share equally. Choose which side of the tracks you would rather be on.

Sure there are very virtuous, happy, and great "poor" people, but many more poor people AREN'T. Being poor sucks, I've been there and done it. I was actually homeless for a while after my house burnt down, slept in a damn church after the shelter would kick us out every morning. I understand EXTREME poverty. I also understand LIVING in poverty. It all SUCKS and it does not make you any more virtuous than the next person.

I only make 45k a year, and I don't begrudge someone if they build an empire.

Gates? Jobs? Buffett?

When people laughed at them and called them idiots when they were starting out, I bet they didn't realize where they would end up. Who am I to say they don't deserve what they get?

I think of a line from a book I read once:

"I swear—by my life and my love of it—that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."