You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?

I have seen a number of comments on here from people who are well off stating they deserve that money because they have had to work hard for it. They are a cut above the rest and follow smart investments. That those on the bottom need to stop complaining and take action. That those on the bottom are lazy, useless, stupid whiners...

Well I say BULLpoo

If you guys are so smart then why dont you understand that this is all a pyramid scheme.
We can not all be on the top, or there would be no one to do the work.
When you make money, directly or indirectly, you have to take that wealth from someone else.

Do you work so hard that you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?
There are people out there working their guts out just to be able to eat this week, do you really think you work harder than everyone else in this world, therefore you deserve a decent slice of the pie.

The problem is in this world money makes money, and when you have money you can put measures inplace to ensure no matter what happens you make more money. You become the card dealer - always guaranteed to win, those that are less fortunate need to keep working away and hoping they dont luck out.

Money in its simplest terms is a debt - when you give it to someone they exchange work for it. So how can you make money from money if you have not even done any work for it? From investments you say, well if you spread your investments enough you are never going to lose are you - if you do you can afford insurance, bribes, bailouts etc

Its all good to scoff at those on welfare but perhaps they actually just understand the game is rigged, or are tired of working their ass off only to luck out. Maybe they dont want to get to the end of their life only to be able to say well, i worked for some fat cats my whole life, busted my gut day and night, got to eat some good meals. Would you sit down and play monopoloy if every time the person who won the last game got $2000 instead of $200 when they pass go and already owned half the board? what would be the point if you had an option to just sponge off the banker.

The rich need to wake up and realise the poor are not playing the same game they are - because the poor can actually lose. If you are rich and you lose it is your own damn fault - you are the one that did not spread your investments enough, you are the one that took a gamble, you are the one that took a loan you could not repay quickly before the dollar collapsed. The people who complain that $200k is not enough because they need to put their kids through college, pay off several mortgages and a car etc are the real drop kicks in this world - they don't even know how to spend their money wisely.

Dont put your kids through college, dont take out loans you can not repay quickly, dont buy things you can survive without - these are basics any poor person knows. Poor people are unbelievable with money, they can survive a month off your kids pocket money - and before everyone starts stereo typing poorer people as drunks, smokers and drug abusers, these people are addicts just like you find amoungst the wealthy, the only difference is they usually have bigger things to be depressed about, and can not afford to go to a fancy rehab centre when they come off the rails. As for those that gamble, maybe they like casino odds better than the odds of their life.

Again it is all a pyramid scheme - someone always has to be on the bottom, and the richer the rich get and the more new toys they want to buy the more people need to be on the bottom to keep their fat ass up the top. To think those on the bottom are just lazy or down there because they are the weakest link is a delusion and are lie spread by the rich to help them sleep at night.

At the end of the day we are all drowning, the only way to survive is to hold someone else down to keep afloat - unless we all stop drowning each other in panic and work together to swim to the shore and that can only come from a new system.

reply to post by byteshertz



I don't even come close to making 200k a year but I think I deserve every penny that I make in income whether its from my jobs, investments, inheritance, etc.

Far be it for me to say a Doctor, Lawyer, Architect, or plumber that spent his time and money on education or apprenticeships doesn't deserve the income they make from their hard work in school. The same goes for the people that get MBAs and make their money in the stock mkt, marketplace or anywhere else. They put forth the effort, they deserve the rewards just the same as the guy that puts in a 9 to 5.

reply to post by byteshertz


Hi

Let's try and put it in perspective;

I used to earn £120k (I'll let you convert it - there are other currencies other han the US$ - including the €)

Moday I used to get up at 04:00 drive to an airport - fly wherever, take on a new assignement - the equivalent to taking on a new job...

Monday to Friday I used to work my balls off for 12 and sometimes 14 hour days...

I used to get home at 22;00 on a Friday - kiss my wife, unpack and deal with the bills.

Saturday I used to then help my wife shopping, cut (sorry you're US) mow the lawns, wash the car, take the kids for a bike ride or my son fishing....

I used to then cook (to save my wife having to) with the kids

I used then have Sunday off - apart from cooking BBQ

And then I packed ...

But guess what?


Though still an (ageing) hippy and even though divorced - my wife has a house, both kids (without pressure) have achieved university degrees, seen more of the world (than the 20% of the US citizens) and I too have my own house.....and car..and more importantly...happiness and contact with my 'ex' family as they understood that I got off my a..e and actually tried rather than whinged and whined like the present generation appears to do. In short I gave rather than took which is what most younger people want. Everything for nothing.....

Sorry - your post just amazes me

Peace!



Sorry - try it!

Originally posted by The Wave
reply to post by byteshertz

 

Hi

Let's try and put it in perspective;

I used to earn £120k (I'll let you convert it - there are other currencies other han the US$ - including the €)

Moday I used to get up at 04:00 drive to an airport - fly wherever, take on a new assignement - the equivalent to taking on a new job...

Monday to Friday I used to work my balls off for 12 and sometimes 14 hour days...

I used to get home at 22;00 on a Friday - kiss my wife, unpack and deal with the bills.

Saturday I used to then help my wife shopping, cut (sorry you're US) mow the laws, wash the car, take the kids for a bike ride or my son fishing....

I used to then cook (to save my wife having to) with the kids

I used then have Sunday off - apart from cooking BBQ

And then I packed ...

But guess what?

My first point is someone can work just as hard working 14 hour days moping floors but get payed $30k a year
My second point is for every dollar you earn someone else must give that wealth up directly by transfer of money or through inflation - in order for you to move up, you must hold someone else down.

Though still an (ageing) hippy and even though divorced - my wife has a house, both kids (without presure) have achieved university degrees, seen more of the world (than the 20% of the US citizens) and I too have my own house.....and car..and more importantly...happiness and contact with my 'ex' family as they understood that I got off my a..e and actually tried rather than whinged and whines like the present generation appears to do. In short I gave rather than took which is what most younger people want. Everything for nothing.....

I agree with you there are people out there wanting everything for nothing, but as the population grows so does competition the gap between rich and middle class grows larger and there has to be more people on the bottom to support both those classes, it is how the system works by design. I am simply trying to point out the system is flawed and unlike the past generations more and more people are seeing this and choosing to live life instead of working for it only to luck out.

Sorry - your post just amazes me

Peace!

Sorry - try it!

I do, I work to - I am middle class, not at the top but not living off the governement either. But I can see a flawed system, and those that are saying ofcorse it's flawed play anyway because I had to are only adding to the problem and doing nothing to correct it.

Appreciate your feedback none the less

Spyda

reply to post by byteshertz


I believe that I deserve a good/high salary when I work because not only has it taken me 13 years to acquire my skill-set, I also have a proven track record that shows that when it comes to ability I'm leaps and bounds above many others in my industry, especially here in London where mediocrity and apathy is the norm. I don't care about your pyramids, I don't care that people are poor while others are rich, etc. And for the record, a lot of the people I know and/or grew up with (in a really poor part of Scotland) who have nothing really are that way because they're stupid and/or lazy. I'm so thankful I managed to get out of that dead end way of life...turned out that the only thing that was stopping me from getting out was having the courage to take a few risks and not being frightened to do all the crap jobs that people employ immigrants and students to do nowadays.

I've been very well off and awfully poor during my lifetime and I like being poor the best, which is good because I left my proper job a couple of years back to become a full-time carer for my wife, so we really are at the poor end of the scale nowadays. That said, we still have our computers, broadband internet and plenty of food in the cupboards, so what else do we need?

People really should learn to be happy with and grateful for what they have. And if you want to change your life, then do it. It really is that simple...unless you're the people I knew growing up.

Rev

reply to post by byteshertz


Spoken like a guy who makes less than 200K per year. You have no idea regarding my skill level, the value I provide, or how much I make for my clients. Nor do you have a clue as to the level of skill, experience or insight I bring to the table, and my personal investment in developing those attributes. The fact is, I and others like me are worth what we make on the free market. That's how life works. Your problem is envy, jealousy, and lack of ability. If you've made bad choices in life, are lazy, or lack talent it will be reflected in your paycheck. Many of us struggled for years before finding a high level of success. Here's a tip. If you sit around and complain, it's a guarantee that you won't get there. I once knew a guy who hated backgammon, but it turned out he only hated it because he lost all the time.
Here's a clue. If I didn't make it, it still wouldn't wind up in your pocket.

reply to post by byteshertz


Hi,

Thanks for your measured response. I guess I was lucky.

Peace!

Originally posted by byteshertz
If you guys are so smart then why dont you understand that this is all a pyramid scheme.
We can not all be on the top, or there would be no one to do the work.
When you make money, directly or indirectly, you have to take that wealth from someone else.

Who said anything about people not knowing or understanding the "pyramid scheme", the game.

I understand it very well. I use my understanding of it to move up the pyramid so to speak.

While you are here trying to fight the rules of the game, I am fighting in the game, and winning.

Originally posted by astrogolf
reply to post by byteshertz

 

Spoken like a guy who makes less than 200K per year. You have no idea regarding my skill level, the value I provide, or how much I make for my clients. Nor do you have a clue as to the level of skill, experience or insight I bring to the table, and my personal investment in developing those attributes. The fact is, I and others like me are worth what we make on the free market. That's how life works. Your problem is envy, jealousy, and lack of ability. If you've made bad choices in life, are lazy, or lack talent it will be reflected in your paycheck. Many of us struggled for years before finding a high level of success. Here's a tip. If you sit around and complain, it's a guarantee that you won't get there. I once knew a guy who hated backgammon, but it turned out he only hated it because he lost all the time.
Here's a clue. If I didn't make it, it still wouldn't wind up in your pocket.

For someone so skilled you dont see to understand simple concepts.
If we all had your skill level that would be the bottom. Im sure you would agree that, society as whole is more educated than we were 200 years ago. So everyone has increased their skill level, but the point is that those up the top are getting further ahead because money makes money - requiring more people to be on the top. Ill draw a little picture for you to help you out. so It eventually skillset will become pointless because it is only those with money making money... just use your superior knowledge to contemplate this for a second.
so we go from this:
..../
.../
./-------
to this:
....../
..../
/-----------

Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by byteshertz
If you guys are so smart then why dont you understand that this is all a pyramid scheme.
We can not all be on the top, or there would be no one to do the work.
When you make money, directly or indirectly, you have to take that wealth from someone else.

Who said anything about people not knowing or understanding the "pyramid scheme", the game.

I understand it very well. I use my understanding of it to move up the pyramid so to speak.

While you are here trying to fight the rules of the game, I am fighting in the game, and winning.

I too play the game, it is my only way to survive in this world. I am not worried about me surviving this game I am worried about my future children and their children surviving if I let this game continue by this ruleset then 1% of the population will eventually own 99% of the wealth in America the 1% currently own aprox 24% (from memory)

Expand your mind, deny ignorance and see the big picture for what it is, yes you are right even the rich know all this - we all know it is a pyramid scheme but think about what the odd's will be when your offspring have to play in the future, would you be complaining if bill gates had 1 trillion dollars and the rest of the world had $10 to fight over? well this is where this game leads.

I make more than 200K and year and I DO deserve every penny that I make.

Why you ask?

I built a company, which employs hundreds of people at a GOOD wage which provides GREAT benefits.

Because I do this, my company has been succesfull, by providing a quality product and great customer service.

So yes, I do deserve my 200K+ salary because I've earned it, I've worked for it. I do give generously to our community and various charity as well as human rights organizations because we really don't NEED all that income.

But do I deserve it? Hell yes.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I make more than 200K and year and I DO deserve every penny that I make.

Why you ask?

I built a company, which employs hundreds of people at a GOOD wage which provides GREAT benefits.

Because I do this, my company has been succesfull, by providing a quality product and great customer service.

So yes, I do deserve my 200K+ salary because I've earned it, I've worked for it. I do give generously to our community and various charity as well as human rights organizations because we really don't NEED all that income.

But do I deserve it? Hell yes.

~Keeper

Thanks for your post keeper, good to hear you give back to the community - I should have made a note of this in my post.

Originally posted by revmoofoo
reply to post by byteshertz

 

I believe that I deserve a good/high salary when I work because not only has it taken me 13 years to acquire my skill-set, I also have a proven track record that shows that when it comes to ability I'm leaps and bounds above many others in my industry, especially here in London where mediocrity and apathy is the norm. I don't care about your pyramids, I don't care that people are poor while others are rich, etc. And for the record, a lot of the people I know and/or grew up with (in a really poor part of Scotland) who have nothing really are that way because they're stupid and/or lazy. I'm so thankful I managed to get out of that dead end way of life...turned out that the only thing that was stopping me from getting out was having the courage to take a few risks and not being frightened to do all the crap jobs that people employ immigrants and students to do nowadays.

I've been very well off and awfully poor during my lifetime and I like being poor the best, which is good because I left my proper job a couple of years back to become a full-time carer for my wife, so we really are at the poor end of the scale nowadays. That said, we still have our computers, broadband internet and plenty of food in the cupboards, so what else do we need?

People really should learn to be happy with and grateful for what they have. And if you want to change your life, then do it. It really is that simple...unless you're the people I knew growing up.

Rev

Appreciate you taking it so personally you needed to add me as a foe Rev,
The thing is no matter how good you are at playing the game eventually 99% of us will lose because 1% will have all the wealth. Yes there is opportunity for those who wish to take it still available in this world but this will not be so in the future as the gap increases. While I see flaws in my own post and I am humble enough to admit this, it does not change the fact that with the current ruleset eventually we will likely all be on the bottom of the pile regardless of how hard we work - my question to you is do you think this should continue.

reply to post by byteshertz


lol, I foe'd you by accident when I went to the drop-down menu to look at your post history, pesky trembly hands of mine. I'll remove it when I figure out how to, because only those who are royally moronic get to be my foe and you're not there yet!

As to your question...yes I do think it should continue because it drives people like myself to work harder and strive higher and if you're not prepared to do that, you don't deserve a share of the wealth. I do think it's unfair that sick people (who are ill for 6 plus months) lose their stake in the game and often can never get it back because things have moved on, but I don't know how to resolve that issue.

Rev

reply to post by revmoofoo


thanks for the reply Rev

I don't think my post is going to change your mind, and I respect your opinion. Perhaps you would be interested in this thread which brings up the bigger issue
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Spyda

reply to post by byteshertz


I can tell you one thing. With that attitude of yours.....I wouldn't hire you!

Be thankful you are even working and making any money at all.

In my shop...crybabies and whiners need not apply!

Hi everybody, I'm new here. I have a burning question for you all but I can't ask it yet - I have to interact 19 more times before I can consider myself through the gauntlet of the Ascension Ritual. st/8') .. What an interesting thread! I am very vehemently opinionated on the topic and I shall opine presently. Before I begin - some source material:
---
thewave :: I don't even come close to making 200k a year but I think I deserve every penny that I make in income whether its from my jobs, investments, inheritance, etc.
rev :: my wife has a house, both kids (without pressure) have achieved university degrees, seen more of the world (than the 20% of the US citizens) and I too have my own house.....and car.. In short I gave rather than took which is what most younger people want. Everything for nothing..... I believe that I deserve a good/high salary when I work because not only has it taken me 13 years to acquire my skill-set, I also have a proven track record that shows that when it comes to ability I'm leaps and bounds above many others in my industry, especially here in London where mediocrity and apathy is the norm. I don't care about your pyramids, I don't care that people are poor while others are rich, etc. And for the record, a lot of the people I know and/or grew up with (in a really poor part of Scotland) who have nothing really are that way because they're stupid and/or lazy. I'm so thankful I managed to get out of that dead end way of life...turned out that the only thing that was stopping me from getting out was having the courage to take a few risks and not being frightened to do all the crap jobs that people employ immigrants and students to do nowadays. ... I do think it should continue because it drives people like myself to work harder and strive higher and if you're not prepared to do that, you don't deserve a share of the wealth.
astrogolf :: Spoken like a guy who makes less than 200K per year. You have no idea regarding my skill level, the value I provide, or how much I make for my clients. Nor do you have a clue as to the level of skill, experience or insight I bring to the table, and my personal investment in developing those attributes. The fact is, I and others like me are worth what we make on the free market. That's how life works. Your problem is envy, jealousy, and lack of ability. If you've made bad choices in life, are lazy, or lack talent it will be reflected in your paycheck. Many of us struggled for years before finding a high level of success. Here's a tip. If you sit around and complain, it's a guarantee that you won't get there. I once knew a guy who hated backgammon, but it turned out he only hated it because he lost all the time. Here's a clue. If I didn't make it, it still wouldn't wind up in your pocket.
peck420 :: While you are here trying to fight the rules of the game, I am fighting in the game, and winning.
keeper :: make more than 200K and year and I DO deserve every penny that I make. .. I built a company, which employs hundreds of people at a GOOD wage which provides GREAT benefits. Because I do this, my company has been succesfull, by providing a quality product and great customer service. So yes, I do deserve my 200K+ salary because I've earned it, I've worked for it. I do give generously to our community and various charity as well as human rights organizations because we really don't NEED all that income. But do I deserve it? Hell yes. ~Keeper

Wow! Everyone, give yourselves a hand. I couldn't have asked for a better agar slide of the nature of the problem. So here goes.

@thewave: Let's start with inheritance as a concept. Please fairly answer the question posited above: If you were playing Monopoly, and the guy who won the last game got 10x the money you did because he'd won the last game.. would you still play? What if the numbers crunched out too few houses and hotels to make winning possible? Would you accept a guaranteed failure just because prior events had slotted you with one? Investment is a shade of the same color - abstraction of the concept of 'goods' and 'services' to the point of being a lottery... Anyone who purports skill over chance in investing is lying, either to you, or to themselves. Don't feel bad, because your corporate culture handed you that fishhook, and you're not to be blamed for swallowing it.
@Rev: In your amalgamated quotations above, you started by defining yourself and your family in two coins: possessions, and time lost to the acquisition of those possessions. Neither of these lists supports your argument; rather it supports your personal reasoning for making this choice. Your point ultimately seems to be that you deserve a whole lot of money because you work a whole lot of hard. I find it hard to believe you've never met someone who was working very hard at something and not making commensurate money - except those who are 'stupid' and 'lazy.' You're putting a lot of people in the categories of 'stupid' and 'lazy' - including myself, as a skilled electronic musician who's been trying hard to get his music noticed for a very long time - and I can guarantee you those descriptive words are a poor fit. And I could argue the case for hundreds of artists, composers, designers, architects, scientists - ESPECIALLY scientists! - who you in formation of your worldview skipped over, or forgot existed.
@Astrogolf: I would love to know what you do for a living, and I would love to know what sort of attire you wear to that profession. Moreso, I'd like you to account for every gallon of gasoline you've burned going to and from that profession, and then I'd like you to consider that my portion of gas-purchasing, my portion of as-yet-unstained breathing air, you likely took with your default excess. See, I have never driven a car. I put every mile of life from 16yoa to my current 28yoa on my knees and ankles alone. And I did it to - here's a shocker! - help OTHERS!! Not myself. So here's a clue: If you didn't fill it with carcinogens and unpotable chemicals, so as to increase the velocity and *comfort* at which you can arrive at your special and highly-deserved upper-echelon elite-income head-of-company position, people like myself would've had the luxury to breathe it. But you didn't walk to work all those days, did you?
Here's the thing: A kingdom is a kingdom - working definition: a group of people galvanized to the control of one individual, whose say is final and who runs the kingdom as he/she/it sees fit. In capitalist society, a person can become a kingdom, but when they do, whether or not they are aware of it, they take on the responsibilities of one: in that your people in the kingdom, and all the neighbors outside the kingdom, are to some extent AT YOUR MERCY and DEPEND ON YOUR HUMANIST, MORALISTIC fairness. If you view the world as a fight, as so many of you have said, of everyone against everyone, and all that matters to you is the bottom line, the tangible dollar, and that long laundry list of "house, two cars, three degrees, four zeros on my check and five golden rings" -- then those within and without your Kingdom will be HURT by this unfairness, whether you see it as "the way the world works" or not. The ungodly rich (and I do consider 200k/us$ to be ungodly) have historically done a great deal of harm to our world, and while I won't waste all day citing wikipedia, the cites are there to see - and short of those unfortunate never-to-be-lauded-in-their-own-time scientists, Gauss, Tesla, and so on, the ungodly rich have done us all VERY LITTLE GOOD. One can call my thoughts "communist" if they want to, but I do not ascribe. I merely know firsthand, having been born into extreme poverty and watched it sicken and kill member after member of my family, that the cold and callous nature of the ungodly rich is one of the driving forces for ALL PLANETARY UNHAPPINESS, and one of the most admirable Poison Pill campaigns ever is that of those -0.01% who manage to convince the other 99.9999..% of the world that they beat everybody fairly.

Please respond if you will. Sorry for typos, keyboard is dying. Don't have money to replace it, before you ask. (Not stupid, or lazy, though.)

Favorite thing seen in print all day : "*because we really don't NEED all that income.*"

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by byteshertz

 

I can tell you one thing. With that attitude of yours.....I wouldn't hire you!

Be thankful you are even working and making any money at all.

In my shop...crybabies and whiners need not apply!

edit on 10-11-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

Way to add somthing constructive to the thread, as for my attitude if you read my replies to others you will see I have agreed with some of their points and event thanked them for their input, even when their view does not match my point of view.
Answer me this why would I want to work for you when you are not even capable of reading through a thread and forming a reply without a personal attack, some boss you must be if you cant even hear someone out.

reply to post by kidkboom


Welcome aboard kidkboom, I have given you a star to go with your first post. I really liked your replies, they were objective, considerate and thought provoking. Thanks

...the problem is the word DESERVE... its an EVIL word... yep... makes folks have po-po-pit-a-fool-me syndrome or my-poop-dont-stink syndrome...

...really, i wouldnt kid ya...