Odd-looking Military Aircraft in the Alaskan Wilderness

Originally posted by Stoo
digitalglobe has the original coords down as "Sullivan Airstrip" ?

They might have made a mistake...

SULLIVAN AIRSTRIP is an AIRPORT in PALMER, NEBRASKA

I doubt it - it's their livelihood to have accurate information.

Besides, the photo matches identically as it's the source image for GE..

I saw the same search result for sullivan airstrip in GE too

[edit on 29-8-2009 by Stoo]

reply to post by Stoo


Well we now have a name for the Airstrip. So a search brought up this H&S document for Fort Greely.

Section 3.8.1.4 page 3.241 has a map of the area showing the location of Sullivan Airstrip and other LS/ DZ's


FORT GREELY H&S ISSUES

Well, now we know where the name came from.

Same doc, ch 3a

As a result of archaeological investigations, three historic sites and a
historic trail have been identified at Fort Greely—all are west of the Delta
River. Sullivan Roadhouse on the Delta Creek (at the western edge of
the Oklahoma Impact Area) is listed on the NRHP and a cabin, which
dates from a molybdenum mining operation begun in 1914, is eligible.
Gordon's Roadhouse, which is situated between Delta River and Delta
Creek, is in ruins—it and the Sullivan Roadhouse were on the Washburn-
Donnely winter sled trail, an alternate part of the Valdez–Fairbanks route
established in the 1910s (U.S. Department of the Interior and U.S.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by firepilot
Some people are letting imaginations go rampant and wild.

Pssstttt

Sign on door says...

"AboveTopSecret World's Largest and Best Conspiracy Site"

We look for 'stuff', toss it around until its identified, then look for new 'stuff'

Besides why does the Military need so much land for training? 670,000 acres? Lush forests stripped away for bombing practice?

Heck we already kicked all the Natives off the Paradise Islands and turned them into bases and launch sites. Seems half of Alaska is military turf...

No wonder the Federal Reserve can't account for 9 TRILLION BUCKS this last fiscal year

Those are not lush forests. Alaskan permafrost prevents tree roots from being able to go down very far. Once you get down near the coast where it is more moderate, then you have more of real "lush" forests.

And yes much of Alaska is federally owned, since the Federal government was the one to buy it from Russia, and not a lot of people live in interior AK.

Well, I do realize that it is a conspiratorial site, but if one wants to actually figure out things, would not one use logical and common sense first, rather than just toss out the most unlikely of scenarios?

reply to post by firepilot


The general focus of most responses in this thread have been centered around the shape / dimensions of the craft and a comparison to known airframes and a look at facilities and land usage as can be ascertained from available documents.

How is this not using logic and common sense?

Originally posted by ajsr71
reply to post by BlasteR

 

That new location is the BLAIR LAKES RANGE FACILITY. Fuel/ maintenace for ground equipment using the Range.

Cool! The actual lakes are like 8 miles or so to the east of the square, so that would make sense.

I wonder what this range is really used for though. If you notice the shots of the landing markers and landing nets I posted earlier on, this site must be involved with UAV's in some form. It has 4 landing nets at the NW corner of the square and 1 landing net at the NE corner of the square. Maybe the range is designed specifically for UCAV-related target practice and is a proving-ground of sorts in this regard.

Interesting!

-ChriS

reply to post by starwarp2000


Very intersting info Starwarp. Thanks for that!

This part is really bizarre to me (aside from the company's supposed annual earnings. WOW!)

Business Categories
Equipment rental and leasing, nec in Cincinnati, OH
Equipment Rental/Leasing

This is not exactly your standard ma and pop equipment rental company.

It's interesting that the business category would say that.. This isn't exactly like other equipment rental business operating up here in Alaska that rent out things like backhoes and trailers. I mean, these guys are renting/leasing out 707's for crying out loud. What else are they renting/leasing?

Especially with annual revenue of around 9 billion dollars...

With regards to me seeing that plane in Anchorage though, keep in mind there is also an Air Base right there at Anchorage Int'l Airport..(Not sure what it's called). Could have been something to do with that base I guess.

Location of that base:

61° 9'49.88"N
149°58'48.25"W

But I actually saw it taxiing right by the gates on the commercial airport side of the runway where all the gates are for Alaska Airlines (not the side with the airbase). I guess it could've been heading in that direction. I'm just not sure.

-ChriS

[edit on 31-8-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by starwarp2000


The road that meanders North through the tundra from the Blair Lakes range facility is extremely long. I'm almost wondering if alot of this equipment and stuff wasn't airlifted in with helicopters.

If you look closely, the road starts at the North of the square. It travels upward careening through trees and tundra. It becomes really hard to track at some points. If you follow the road North it looks like it ends at one point but it actually doesn't. The road actually continues slightly to the West and continues northward until it appears to end right at the Tanana River. But that isn't true either. The "road" (if you can even call it that) was probably constructed in winter when the river was frozen. Because if you continue North across the River it continues and then ends up at the Fort Wainwright range area.

That west-most range area is called the "KD Range".

The two white circles in your close-up image could just be some kind of markers. They could also be small enclosures for RADAR and/or SODAR arrays. I think most of you know what RADAR is. SODAR is used for measurements of wind-speed at various heights above the ground.

-ChriS

[edit on 31-8-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by xoxo stacie


Much respect to your grandfather but I happen to disagree. I think what we have here are much more than simple mockups for a few very important reasons.

This airstrip is 20 miles from Fort Greely, it is about 30 miles from Fort Wainwright and 50 miles from Eielson AFB. Fort Greely has its own immense range complex in the Donnelly Training Area. The Airstrip isn't actually within the Donnelly Training Area. (Not according to the maps I have). I haven't uploaded the PDF's yet but you'll see what I mean. The boundary of the Fort Greely installation surrounds everything (the main part of the base, Allen Army Airfield, the training areas, the missile defense site, CRTC, etc.). And alot of the land isn't even used.

I'm still trying to find out if this remote airstrip is even part of Fort Greely or not. So far I haven't been able to figure that out because all the maps of Fort Greely I've found so far don't show the entire installation boundary.

The maps I have shows the boundary of the Fort Greely installation extending off the map entirely. It is an immense area of Alaskan Real Estate. I'm just not exactly sure where the boundary ends up on that Western edge yet.

But Fort Wainwright also has its own large range complex just across the highway from the base that is used for small arms, machine guns, and artillery. ( You can hear the cannons going off from my house actually). Fort Wainwright DOES conduct some training and exercises at Eielson AFB too because Eielson has ALOT of surface area to train on.

Eielson AFB has multiple ranges used for aircraft training and exercises.. They are used for "live drops" (bombs), 20mm cannons on the F-16's (Mostly TP or target practice rounds), BDU-33 Drops (small training bombs) and, occasionally, launches of certain kinds of flares, rockets, and missiles. The Air Force has active duty soldiers that do nothing but maintain the ranges and prepare targets for the aircraft. Sometimes they even use old humvees or other vehicles to make the targets more realistic for the pilots.

They all have their own ranges. Eielson already has multiple ranges of its own and this doesn't appear to be one of them (there definately aren't any bomb craters that I see or anything like that). And I've never even heard of the Air Force constructing an entire 1 and a half mile long landing strip complete with mock airplanes, thrust deflectors, temporary structures, and taxiways.. 50 miles from the nearest AFB just to "test their equipment". They can do that on their own ranges. And the A-10's aren't even flying at Eielson anymore!

Fort Wainwright doesn't have fighter jets, neither does Fort Greely. I think both army bases have variuos kinds of helicopters and I know for sure Fort Wainwright has some Kiowas. But why would the Government spend this kind of money, time, and effort to "test equipment" when they already have the ranges and facilities to do that for all their weapons platforms?

It doesn't add up.

-ChriS

More on the Giant Square (Blair Lakes Range Complex)

Found this on google at this link:

Blair Lakes Range-Maintenance complex

Located 20 air mi. southwest of Eielson Air Force Base, Blair Lakes is a conventional bombing range used by Department of Defense personnel from Eielson AFB and Elmendorf AFB. It is accessible year-round via a 2,500-ft.-long gravel airstrip, while from mid-January to mid-March via an ice road built across Alaskan rivers and tundra.

The $16.7 million design-build project for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers involves construction of a bulk fuel storage facility, a 20-person dormitory, and vehicle and range maintenance bays located one mile from the existing facilities. The 2,800-sq.-meter complex features water, septic, power generation, communications, and fire protection systems.

Once design was complete, materials were procured and mobilized to the project site via the ice road to minimize costs. Kiewit Construction Company, a subsidiary of Kiewit Corporation, began construction in the spring and substantially completed the project in November 2004.

I guess I was right. They use an ice-road to traverse the Tanana River and the Tanana Flats area of Tundra just South of the River.

They used the Ice road to transport the building materials to the site.

But this still doesn't explain the other site (the bizarre airstrip) nor does it explain the other infrastructure at the Blair Lakes complex that is blatantly designed for UAV's. 5 recovery areas for UAV's here but Blair Lakes is just a simple range complex for the Air Force?

And HERE is a little more about Fort Greely and Donnelly Training Area (nearest installation to the unidentified airstrip):

In 1995, Fort Greely was selected for realignment (but not closure) as a cost-saving measure. Only the Cold Regions Test Center (CRTC) and Public Works functions were to remain on the installation. Large portions of the post were to be closed and, at one point, the main post was to be turned over to the city of Delta Junction for use as a private prison. Ultimately, plans for the prison fell through. In 2001, headquarters for the Northern Warfare Training Center and Cold Regions Test Center were moved to nearby Fort Wainwright. Training ranges were also transferred to Fort Wainwright control and renamed Donnelly Training Area. Though its command moved, CRTC continued operating from Fort Greely. The Northern Warfare Training Center also continued operations at Black Rapids Training Facility.

After the United states announced that it would withdraw from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty, Fort Greely was selected as a site for the Ground-Based Midcourse Defense system. Starting in the summer of 2002, the United States government began work on the missile defense installation at Fort Greely, planning to deploy a total of 25 to 30 anti-ballistic missiles by 2010. Concurrently, the Missile Defense Command took command of Fort Greely, relinquishing direct Army control, while the Army retained control of the nearby Donnelly Training Area.

Testing efforts are centered at the Bolio Lake Range Complex, approximately 10 miles south of Fort Greely. Arkansas Range is the main test site for mines and small arms. Washington Range is a multi-purpose range used for air defense missile firings, artillery tests, such as Sense and Destroy Armor (SADARM), and smoke and obscurant tests requiring large areas and mobility testing. Texas Range is available for direct-fire tests, as well as sensor, small arms, and missile tests. Oklahoma Range, primarily used for indirect-fire work, is capable of observed fire to 30 km and unobserved fire to 50 km.

-ChriS

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon,

The photo you have at the bottom shows these "landing markers" I was talking about earlier. The big "H's" each have 2 landing areas/nets that look like they're for UAV's. If you draw a line along those markers to the Northwest you end up at these "nets" i was talking about before that are mounted on each side with 35' high poles.

-ChriS

reply to post by BlasteR


Chris

The Donnelly Training Area Extends west to the Little Delta River with the Sullivan Airstrip being on the Delta Creek and in the Oklahoma Impact Area.

I've never heard of "Sullivan Airstrip" before. Zorgon is right though, it could've been a mistake. But in a published document like that?

I searched FAA-registered airports and landing facilities in the state of Alaska. No mention anywhere of a "Sullivan Airstrip" but figured it was worth a shot anyway.

www.city-data.com...

Something else I noticed guys..

Look just to the South of the airstrip in Google Earth. You can see a pretty huge area of forest burnt down by a forest fire. You can even see where part of the fire was burning when the image was taken, complete with rising plumes of smoke.

Anyway, It's interesting but it still doesn't explain the strange aircraft nor the odd location of the airstrip.

Could it not also be called just "Donnelly Airstrip"?

I ran across an image with reference to an airstrip with this name.



Also, check out this one.. (explanation below)

Thursday, July 17, 2008
Photo of the day - July 16

Ron at Range Control (873-4714) took the above image of Mike Kingston just after the FIRST historic landing of a C-17 on the Donnelly Assault Strip. Photo submitted by Michael Kingston

So it definately looks as though the Air Force is actively using this thing.

It would help explain the location and condition of the site, itself (in that it is designed and constructed to simulate assault-style takeoffs and landings?). Not sure.

But the big question still remains.. What the heck kind of aircraft are we seeing in google earth?

-ChriS

reply to post by BlasteR


Chris

In one of my previous messages I posted a link to FORT GREELY H & S Issues.

If you go to this linkFORT GREELY ISSUES and go to page 341 you can see a map showing the location of
Sullivan Air Strip
Donnelly Assault Airfield / DZ to the south of Fort Greely
BEAR, FOX, BUTCH, And other Drop Zones.

What is not on this map is Delta Creek Impact Area which is West of Sullivan Airstrip

Delta Creek Airstrip , just north of Sullivan Airstrip
Warrior DZ
Hillbilly DZ
Simsonville
Bennet Airstrip , to the south

Well, that seems to nail the airstrip, now what the hell are the planes?

I guess nobody asked in the aircraft forum?

I'll go do that now..

reply to post by Stoo


Came across this in the PACAF News Service
Text Edited to remove personnel names. So Went to the Eielson AFB website and searched for Mock-up, scan came up with is picture but no info on which range they are on.


MOCK-UP AIRCRAFT TARGETS

EIELSON AIR FORCE BASE, Alaska --Making targets for other units to destroy
is what the 354th Civil Engineer Squadron, Range Maintenance Section here
does best.

During Exercise Northern Edge '04, realistic mock targets are bombed by Air
Force, Marine, and Navy pilots, giving them real-life practice for combat.

"We have been told that the pilots say our ranges are unmatched for their
realism," said the, 354th CES superintendent of range maintenance.

Northern Edge is Alaska's annual joint training exercise designed to enhance
interoperability among the services
Squadron members say that due to the costs involved with contracting this
type of work out, 354th CES may actually be the last active duty Air Force
squadron to make these targets.
"We make about eight to 10 (mock) aircraft (targets), 12 anti-aircraft guns,
and ten tanks a week. We also make decoysDecoys lead the enemy to believe they are shooting at the real thing,
whereas pilots shoot at targets to sharpen their accuracy.

"The targets are then shipped out to three local ranges located at either
Eielson AFB or Fort Wainwright Army Base.
"Two out of the three ranges are so remote and hard to get to that there are
no roads to get there," he said. "Because of the soft summer tundra, we
can't build roads there or they would sink."

He said due to the terrain, everything was transported to these remote sites
by helicopter, at a cost of $4,000 an hour, until about 10 years ago.

"Now, at least in the winter, once everything freezes, we build roads over
frozen ground and frozen rivers to transport most of what we need at a hugesavings to the military
When the ground freezes solid enough, in November or December, the squadrosets out, to navigate through the frozen tundra and frozen rivers with their equipment.

"Once we are there, we typically work 12 - 16 hour days," he said.


"We build simulated planes, tanks, anti-aircraft guns, missile batteries,
and radar out of wood and steel,"

"We will even build a moving train for the pilots to hit next summer,"
Sergeant O'Brien said.

Even though everything the section makes is ultimately destroyed, the pilotswho use these ranges and decoys receive good practice in sharpening their skills for both training in an exercise like Northern Edge and/or defeating the enemy.


"The targets are also spaced out realistically, unlike other ranges," he
said. (Courtesy of Northern Edge Joint Information Bureau and Pacific Air
Forces News Service)


[edit on 31-8-2009 by ajsr71]

reply to post by ajsr71


Even though the body of these mockups is similar they have only one vertical stabilizer. Do they come in twin stabilizer models???

DO you know what the designation of those mockups are???

Just a pair of f-15s looks like

Originally posted by starwarp2000
reply to post by ajsr71

 

Even though the body of these mockups is similar they have only one vertical stabilizer. Do they come in twin stabilizer models???

DO you know what the designation of those mockups are???

The GE Image has a date of June 20 2005 so I would imagine that they change the design. Waiting for a reply from the 354th CES about them .

Will post if I get one.