The Obama Probe Continues...

reply to post by skycopilot


So you end it up with personal insults towards me, completely ignoring the evidence I posted because, well you dont have any proof. Either you know your lying or trying to derail the thread away from having to answer for it.


[edit on 2-6-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by JulieMills
this is a no brainer right here.
Now the hard part is to get the news media to ask the question.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by JulieMills]

Again, what difference does it make? His mother was a US citizen. Period. Article II, section I, does not state anything about the territories of the US. "Natural born" or 'Citizen of US"............doesnt' say on the land. John MCcain was born in Colon, Panama, not on a US Military Base. Colon is in the Republic of Panama, but he is a US citizen because his parents are US citizens. When are you going to let die this issue? Do you not think for a minute that if President Obama was not a US citizen that the RNC would have been all over it??? Do you think John McCain would not be all over it, Sarah Palin all over it?

reply to post by TheWake


A chance? To do what? Shut down more car companies? Appoint different CEO's ? Spend more in 5 months than Bush did (and a host of other Presidents) were able to in YEARS? He even said we're out of money! He's making sure we once were knocked down, we will never get up again!

reply to post by aero56


Officialy, McCain was the one who was investigated during the campaign, not Obama. He and his life have been "off limits" to the leftist press when it concerns criticism.

MSM did no real vetting of obama's past during the primaries or main campaign. why is that? in the normal course of events they would have been all over very detail of where he was born and the various laws in play, where he traveled and why. especially when he himself mentioned that trip --thanks for providing that occasion and date skycopilot! the entire chicago political machine was there to examine. he was involved with rezko and others but other than assuring us there was nothing to see, move along, they didn't examine it. i remember reading that many people though he could not win the election once the "right wing attack machine" exposed it all, but that never happened. in spite of a liberal bias in the press, they usually do go after interesting stories but in this case they left it completely alone. and this was during the campaign, when it might have influenced votes. why didn't the mainstream media vet barack obama? it wouldn't have fallen to regular citizens and bloggers to do it if the press had done it. remember how they screamed when palin was selected, that they didn't bet to vet her? they had plenty of time with obama but chose not to. and by vet, i mean examine in detail the very questions we are asking.

reply to post by BornPatriot



I'm going to have to join my voice with those that say that this is a needless thread.
Shame on you for picking on him just because he is finally admitting his muslim roots.
Shame on you for shining the light on phoney passports, hidden trips to questionable countries, and dubious birth records.
He needs to focus his attention on running car companies, insurance companies, and banks.
Later this year he is going to need all his attention to run the healthcare system into the dirt.
Do you think he can run the country like a good socialist should with all these accusations going on?
I certainly hope he passes a law that will silence all people with different opinions of his own because he can't develop a good relationship with Cuba/Venesuella/N Korea/Iran with all of you speaking your mind and bringing up that silly little paper called the constitution.
It's a good thing he's taking away all of your guns so you don't hurt yourself.
Shame, shame on you for thinking that this is America and that you have the ability to question things.

Oh yeah, and you're racist too!

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by greenorbs

 

I have heard of people going to Cuba despite the U.S. travel ban.

But isn't that breaking American law?


I do find the ops timeline very interesting and feel that there are a lot of questions that need answering.

I agree where there is smoke, there's fire, and there sure is a lot of smoke around this issue.

The people I know of went to Cuba on some sort of humanitarian/educational/cultural program officially, but yes I think they were breaking the law technically.

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by Alternative

 

Yes. I was wrong. Cuba for example...You can travel there, but it requires a world of paperwork with I think the the Department of Commerce since there is an embargo and in theorey they have final approval. So travel is restricted in certain ways at times for certain countries.

As far as this thread is concerned though...there was no Travel Ban in place at the time for Pakistan and the OP is a BS email being shot around by the fringe far right.

Here is the Travel advisory for Pakistan in 1981.

US State Department Travel Advisory for Pakistan in 1981, No. 81-33A

dosfan.lib.uic.edu...

You my friend are peddling bull****. The source for your "document" is the University of Chicago! Are you friggin' kidding me? Gee do ya THINK it could be a bogus document scanned into the database by operatives of the Chicago Machine, who now pull the strings in the White House?

I question your motives. You attack the OP, labeling him a conservative, as if that is all one needs to do to discredit someone. And then you back up your thesis with a bogus document. A simple look at it shows that it is CLEARLY BOGUS.

How?

Because neither typewriters nor word processors at that time produced the font style. Rather, the document is likely a Word document, Times New Roman font in all capitals.

What are your motives? Are you from Chicago?

[edit on 2-6-2009 by greenorbs]

Originally posted by mikerussellus
I'm going to have to join my voice with those that say that this is a needless thread.
Shame on you for picking on him just because he is finally admitting his muslim roots.

His not muslim, his christian. Your doing no good upholding the constitution by labelling the man based on his middle name and his fathers family. We dont choose our families or our heritage, we do choose our religion in this land of freedom.

Shame on you for shining the light on phoney passports

What light? Speculative at best, nothing of true or proof as of yet. I dont see any proof of any phony passports he used, I dont see any law evidence provided by the accusers other than speculation. I already posted a reply disproving the claims.

You have not shined light on anything until you actually provide evidence.

hidden trips to questionable countries

So everybody who travels to Pakistan is questionable?

and dubious birth records.

"dubious" to the rightwing fringe, and nobody else. Cant say Im surprised.

Thank the flying stars this garbage only has its audience on conspiracy forums.

Just for the record.....

This link has a pic of the school registration made by his step father for the school in Jakarta Indonesia.

www.daylife.com...

Name: Barry Soetoro
Religion: Islam
Citizenship: Indonesia

I am not claiming anything just trying to provide some information. The form is not in english but the above info are the parts in question. It also lists HI as his birthplace.

So if this document was filled out truthfully, then he at one point had an indonesian citizenship. If not, his father lied to get him into this school.

If he was adopted by Soetoro when he was 5(the time of the school registration), he would have automatically attained Indonesian Citizenship. Indonesia at the time, did not allow/recognize dual citizenship. However, the US would have still honored his US citizenship, if he already had it, he would not have lost it.

As far as the trip to Pakistan goes...... I read that he actually travelled to Indonesia with a college friend to visit his mother and sister, he then went to Pakistan for about 3 weeks from Indonesia, not directly from the US.

reply to post by PowerSlave


Soetoro signed him up to those schools against the laws at the time, and evidently had to lie. I dont blame soetoro though, school is important, and given the strict laws I guess the lying on the school registration were necessary.

Obama never gave up his American natural born citizenship, neither did he loose it. But how was Obama then able to attend primary school there? The truth of matter is that his step father at the time probably lied and made some agreement with the school there fo his attendence. Maybe the assumption of Obama leaving back to Hawaii in anycase had dawned on Anne Dunham and Lolo Soetoro. Ofcourse young Obama had no control over the laws been broken at the time, just like he had no control to inheriting his unique cultural heritage.

Considering the other scenarios had these current laws in the US constitution not existed;
Indonesian citizenship is given to:

1. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;

2. A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;

3. A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child -- the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;

4. A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;

5. A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;

6. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;

7. A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.
Citizenship is automatically granted to those children 5years and under in the case of marriage or adoption. Other than that there must be a 5year time span in Indonesia if citizenship is to be granted. Obama does not apply in this case, as I said before, because he came to Indonesia at the age of 6years and left at 10. Obama started school at the age of 6, not 5.

So in this scenario he never attained Indonesian citizenship. Source: Draft revision of citizenship law No. 62/1958 of the Indonesian constitution. In addition:
the applicant should have no other nationality or should lose his/her previous nationality upon acquiring the Indonesian nationality or the applicant should expressly renounce his/her previous nationality according to the laws applicable to him/her

www.expat.or.id...

(it says 2006 but the laws are in reference to past laws, in particular those during the 70's and 60's)

No proof that Soetoro adopted Obama, neither would he have lost his natural born citizenship in anycase. But under the laws at the time, Obama would have had to reside in Indonesia for atleast 5 years before given the opportunity to apply, and in order to become an Indonesian citizen he would have had to give up his american citizenship because they did not recognize dual citizenship, yet no proof of that has been shown.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Don't ask me for sources because it's been awhile, this comes from some other forums. Michell Obama made a statement last Fall/Summer that she and Barak had just paid off their student loans, someone did some checking somewhere and failed to find any evidence of student loans at all. What they were able to do was to find out where Obama's money came from when going to school, the source was a US citizen who in turn received these monies from the ultimate source a wealthy Saudi. Liberals bash World Net Daily all the time, it pains them it is no rag and a step in the direction of the Truth. Obamas approval rating means nothing, things are just getting underway and by this coming Fall he will have done so much to damage the economy the 67% approval rating will be a faint memory and thats the time the Kool-Aid Drinkers will start Chuga-Lugging.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by PowerSlave

 

Soetoro signed him up to those schools against the laws at the time, and evidently had to lie. I dont blame soetoro though, school is important, and given the strict laws I guess the lying on the school registration were necessary.

how can you possibly know this? were you there? unless you were party to these things, you are making assumptions which are no more valid than the speculation of others that you condemn.

Originally posted by Boomer1941
Don't ask me for sources because it's been awhile, this comes from some other forums.

First you post a mystery message from somebody claiming to be a relative of Obama, then you tell us to "not ask you to verify the sources" and yet here you folks are going on about Obama providing unauthenticated passports and birth certificates which you are yet to show.

It just doesnt make any sense, the logic of you folks.

Originally posted by earlywatcher
how can you possibly know this? were you there?

I didnt have to be there, those were the laws at the time so the only explanation is that the man lied. Go figure.

unless you were party to these things, you are making assumptions

You folks are making assumptions, I am yet to see any proof from you. Read my replies, I actually provided the proof and the reference to the laws of Indonesia at the time where they show he could not have been a citizen. Actually read the laws of indonesia at the time before you start jumping the gun.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by Southern Guardian]

Actually if he was indeed adopted in indonesia at the age of 5 or younger, he would automatically become an indonesian citizen.

What we do not know

If he was adopted or not. If so where was it? US or Indonesia?

When did he arrive in Indo, some sources say he was 5 some say he was 6.

One other point of interest regarding his name. His attorney registration he lists his current name bho and lists "none" under former names. Which says his Barry Soetoro name was never registered in the US or he just never bothered putting that down, which you would think would be something he would have been truthful about.


These I believe are the kinds of things that make people question him. There are many things about him that cannot be confirmed one way or the other.

Despite that some people think its his color that people cannot handle, which is probable of some, but others cannot ignore these other legitimate concerns.


One personal statement to clear it all up

I was born in "blank" on "blank" month and "blank" year
Here is my original vaulted proof of birth (provide what everyone wants)
I travelled to Indonesia and Pakistan on a "blank" passport in the "blank" year and "blank month"

I indeed held dual citizenship from "blank" country and the US. The "blank" citizenship expired on "blank" year because it was never renewed.

Thank you for your time, have a nice day.

B. H. O


Then everyone can continue with trashing his presidency instead of his elligibility.

reply to post by Southern Guardian



You pick and choose points to argue. Can you please defend his not releasing college transcripts?
Plus, you liberals have absolutely THE WORST sense of humor I have ever seen.
Lighten up!

(Get it. . Statue of Liberty. . .lighten up. . . awww forget it!)

Originally posted by PowerSlave
Actually if he was indeed adopted in indonesia at the age of 5 or younger, he would automatically become an indonesian citizen.

Thats if he gave up his american citizenship to which there is no evidence he had. Dont you listen? I said this in my other posts. Just take a breather and read what I posted. According to Indonesia law a child must be under 5 years of age and must give up foreign citizenship to attain Indonesian citizenship in order to be legally adopted. Indonesian law at the time were strict on mixed marriages as well so the status of Obama was more so unlikely. Over 5 years Obama would have to have resided in Indonesia for atleast 5years to gain citizenship yet he left at the age of 10.

Get your facts straight or atleast reference the Indonesian laws at the time to prove otherwise.

reply to post by maybereal11


I've got to ask myself why you keep hammering on this one point. How many times do you have to post the same link before we can figure out which side of the fence you're on?

Whenever a person travelling on one country's passport enters another country, there are TWO, and sometimes more, governments involved, either of which can ruin your hopes for entry.

I don't know how it is now, but back in the time frame in question, Israel used to issue a removable passport page for their authorizations, so that the customs in some of her neighboring countries wouldn't deny entry based on seeing an Israeli stamp.

You might want to check on whose passports Pakistan would accept at the time. They had a war going on next door, and were a tad touchy about foreigners pouring into the country bound for the battlefield.