We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by Danger Girl


Sorry to just jump right in here without reading through the thread, but this is incorrect...

True carnivores (and omnivores) salivate about the idea of eating whole prey animals when they see them. Humans do not.

Ever been to a pig pickin'? I was also salivating one night seeing Andrew Zimmerman in Spain gettin' down on some suckling pig. Brains and all. Oh yes, I salivated.

The cooking of foods, meat or otherwise, is what gets people salivating. Old restaurant trick from the city here. Ready to get a crowd in? Throw some onions on the grill and turn on the exhaust fan out into the street. And there you have your veggies doing the trick too. But does raw onion make you salivate?

Originally posted by angryamerican
I am curious, what is the difference is between vegaterions and vegans. Truthfully I did not relies there was a difference.

Vegetarians don't eat meat, some eat fish though which i always found odd.

Vegans don't eat any meat, fish or use any animal derived product. So no leather, wool, no honey (yes i know that's rediculous), no eggs and no milk to name a few things. At least the vegans i have spoken to told me that. I have to admit the honey one threw me.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by Astrithr
I doubt it'll change your mind, but here are a few vegetarians that, in my opinion, weren't lacking in neural prowess: Tolstoy, Leonardo da Vinci, Pythagoras, Tesla, Voltaire, Plato, George Bernard Shaw

And yet I can pretty much guarantee you that these people were not born vegetarians. Perhaps, at some point in their lives, they chose to become vegetarians, but there's no evidence that they achieved the objectives for which they are known simply because they became vegetarians.

In fact, there's no evidence at all that becoming a vegetarian makes you a smarter or healthier person.

However, it is a scientific fact that, by refusing to eat meats, vegetarians and vegans are excluding many essential nutrients from their diet, such as vitamins A and D, several of the B-complex vitamins (particularly B-12), essential fatty acids, magnesium, zinc, phosphorous, potassium, iron, taurine, and selenium, as well as the nutritional factors co-enzyme Q10, carnitine, and alpha-lipoic acid.

Vegans and vegetarians, therefore, must supplement their diets with handfuls of vitamin pills and other products designed to get these vital nutrients and minerals into their bodies, or else they will grow ill and possibly die of anemia or something worse.

My wife, for instance, with her vegan lifestyle, has been told repeatedly by her physician that she needs more B-12, among other things, so now she's using some sort of B-12 nasal spray, along with her various vitamin pills. Ridiculous.

As for an earlier post stating 90% of doctors agree that humans aren't designed to eat meat, all I can say is stop consulting those Mexican bordertown doctors. That's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. No competent physician in the First World would go against Science and make such a statement.

Humans are omnivores, meaning we can eat pretty much anything, and no intelligent physician would deny this.

What's most telling about the vegetarian and vegan "alternative lifestyles" is how blatantly obvious it is that THEY STILL WANT MEAT. Hey, I go grocery shopping with vegans in those exclusive "whole earth" stores, where you find dozens of organic, imitation meat products. Boca Burgers. Garden Burgers. Tofu Dogs (these are frankfurters), vegetable-based sausages and bacons and every damned high-priced thing you can imagine -- carefully concocted to TASTE LIKE MEAT, but is actually some sort of loathsome bean curd.

So, vegans and vegetarians are living a lie. Under the layers and layers of compassion for animals and love for the biosphere, these people still want a crunchy slice of bacon and a big, greasy cheeseburger.

reply to post by Danger Girl

People Eating Tasty Animals

thought we could all use an intermission

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Orlan Zvezda]

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Orlan Zvezda]

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Typical ignorance throughout your post. I don't need want or take ANY supplements. B12 comes from soil bacteria not flesh so you get the traces you need from organic veggies. I don't get sick so i don't need tylenol or whatever pills either. I don't like pseudo-meat tasting vegetarian products nor the textured glump it comes in, unlike most meat-pie eaters.

Please don't speak for me and I won't speak for you.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


www.copperwiki.org...

www.jem.org...

www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com...

findarticles.com...

John Hopkins has done some of the finest research in showing the link between red meat and the by products of the meat released into the system when eaten.

But I have now bcome tired of this so decide on your own, its much lke global warming, opinions some how become facts

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
In fact, there's no evidence at all that becoming a vegetarian makes you a smarter or healthier person.

I'm abot to defend vegetarians, bet you didn't see that one coming

The same could be said for meat eating in a modren human, it doens't amke you smarter. So both diets are on equal footing there.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
However, it is a scientific fact that, by refusing to eat meats, vegetarians and vegans are excluding many essential nutrients from their diet, such as vitamins A and D, several of the B-complex vitamins (particularly B-12), essential fatty acids, magnesium, zinc, phosphorous, potassium, iron, taurine, and selenium, as well as the nutritional factors co-enzyme Q10, carnitine, and alpha-lipoic acid.

Yes they do lack lots of the B vitamins but i must pick you up on something, some of the best forms of essential fatty acids can be found in seeds and their oils. Evening Primrose Oil, Flaxseed Oil and Hemp Oil are some of the highest quality EFA's you'll find.

Magnesium is found in many vegetables, zinc can be gotten in abundance from pumpkin seeds, phosphorous also can be found in many root veg like carrots, potassium can be found in pulses.

Iron is the big one, anemia is quite common in vegans, even if tey have a varied diet. Although they may eat iron rich foods, getting enough of them is often difficult.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Vegans and vegetarians, therefore, must supplement their diets with handfuls of vitamin pills and other products designed to get these vital nutrients and minerals into their bodies, or else they will grow ill and possibly die of anemia or something worse.

That is a very wrong statement. Lots of vegans never have to have any pills, the same goes for vegetarians. Yu aren't arguing from a factual position here just your opinion. Anemia i will agree on, it's more common in vegans than the general populous.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
My wife, for instance, with her vegan lifestyle, has been told repeatedly by her physician that she needs more B-12, among other things, so now she's using some sort of B-12 nasal spray, along with her various vitamin pills. Ridiculous.

It's possible that your wife doesn't eat varied enogh in her diet or maybe her body isn't suited to a vegan lifestyle. I told these guys about my friend earlier who has MS, her vegetarian lifestyle made her illness far worse. Her doctor encouraged her to start eating some meat and her symptoms reduced a great deal, she's still ill of course but the symptoms are less since the meat was introduced in her diet. She doesn't eat much of it either, not much is needed.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
As for an earlier post stating 90% of doctors agree that humans aren't designed to eat meat, all I can say is stop consulting those Mexican bordertown doctors. That's one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. No competent physician in the First World would go against Science and make such a statement.

Actually lots of doctors go against science. I have to defend doctors here fora second, in certain conditions, most notably liver and kidney cases, vegetarianism can be a very positive factor. However in a healthy person i think small amounts of meat i the diet are better than being a vegetarian.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Humans are omnivores, meaning we can eat pretty much anything, and no intelligent physician would deny this.

Well i would argue all physicians are intelligent. However lots will argue against this if they themselves are vegetarians or vegans. Scientifically though, yes, we are omnivores.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
What's most telling about the vegetarian and vegan "alternative lifestyles" is how blatantly obvious it is that THEY STILL WANT MEAT. Hey, I go grocery shopping with vegans in those exclusive "whole earth" stores, where you find dozens of organic, imitation meat products. Boca Burgers. Garden Burgers. Tofu Dogs (these are frankfurters), vegetable-based sausages and bacons and every damned high-priced thing you can imagine -- carefully concocted to TASTE LIKE MEAT, but is actually some sort of loathsome bean curd.

Ahh doc i love you my friend. Yes why do they mae fake meat products? They dye them, often give them flavourings. Morally they aren't killing anything but if they're eating something like facon (made to look like bacon), then they may not be killing an animal, but their sort of undermining their whole ideology. If meats wrong then don't go making fake meat.

Ick cheeseburger, you lost my support there, i prefer lean meats.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

I have to admit the honey one threw me.

No Jell-o either. That's the one that threw me. They also won't use most health & beauty products.

reply to post by jackinthebox
I found out in my home country, they use chicken cartilege to cure arthritis. if i get artritis i will try this out.

Originally posted by jalien
John Hopkins has done some of the finest research in showing the link between red meat and the by products of the meat released into the system when eaten.

But I have now bcome tired of this so decide on your own, its much lke global warming, opinions some how become facts

Classic so you provide links that don't back up your ideas and have to give up trying to make it sound like i'm being unresonable. I gave you facts but you didn't like them much did you, whereas i have asked you for facts documenting rotting meat in living patients and you provided none. Lets examine your links.

Also by byproducts you are mainly talking of cholesterol here. That isn't a by product.


www.copperwiki.org...

This link did not provide anything about meat rotting in the gut as i requested. There is some mention of uric acid, well i'm afraid some vegetables also cause uric acid production. However i dislike red meats and prefer the lean kind as i have mentioned often.


www.jem.org...

A study of the histase enzyme working alone in tubes of meat. Hardly a good thing to compare to the human digestive tract which includes acid, alkalines later down the intestines via the gall bladder, thousands of different bacteria and enzymes and a selective absorption process. They left the enzyme in the tubes with the meat for almost a month, no food spends that amount of time in the digestive tract.


www.johnshopkinshealthalerts.com...

To do with prostate cancer, the link of heavy red meat consumption and cancer is clear, however it talks about heavy use, not the occasional bit of it. It also doens't mention anything abut meat rotting ina person unless i missed something here.


findarticles.com...

An article mainly on cholesterol. Well we all know LDL cholesterol is bad for you, but again using low amounts of meat would solve this. Oh and your arguement doesn't work against fish, chicken, rabbit or any other lean meat.

So you provided no link that said meat rots in the gut, unless i missed something which of course is possible.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
No Jell-o either. That's the one that threw me. They also won't use most health & beauty products.

Well i don't use beauty products and i encourage everyone i can not to use them. Show who you are, don't plaster on makeup and cover up your face, sorryof topic but i feel pasionate about that issue.

Oh and jelly, what kind of person won't eat jelly! I'd disown my own mother for saying such a thing, only the evil don't like jelly.

Did I miss something here, or did someone else pick up on the OP's original premise.....look at the thread title.

"We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat..."

I think 'designed' is the very telling word there.....

If it said "We Weren't Designed" then it would make a lot more sense.

I was vegan for two years. All in all a very nice diet always felt good. It was difficult eating out with family and friends (It's not a convenient diet). If not for this difficulty I probably would have stayed vegan. Was seriously over weight when I began and lost 50 lbs within 6 months. But the best part of being a vegan is using the bathroom - very regular and easy - never, ever constipated (perfect bliss in the john ). I still enjoy completely vegetarian/vegan meals now and then (oriental or pasta dishes).

[edit on 15-6-2008 by 2 cents]

reply to post by Danger Girl


if you chew your food good enough it gets through a whole lot better.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I agree but either way it still doesn't belong in the Survival forums. which has been repeated over and over again for 12 pages. it takes away from gathering of survival knowledge. and it either needs to be moved to a more appropriate forums or closed. There are going to be no winners and no losers here. there minds will not be changed our minds will not be changed. Case closed in my opinion.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Doc Velocity is my hero.

I think human is omnivore, but lean to herbivore side. The problem today is that most people eat like a carnivore.

River

Oh, it's sad to see people so misinformed.

Jelly is okay, unless it has gelatin in it. Usually it doesn't and has an ingredient called "pectin" in it. Jello contains animal bi-products including the very tailings of cattle and horses; bones, hooves, etc...

We're not a cult. Why we don't do the things we do is completely understandable, and in no way shocking. What's shocking is the complacency among you all. In no way is this something we're doing to you.

"What really threw me was..."

Seriously? That "threw" you?

I thought it was easily understandable, but maybe these videos can help reiterate our standpoints.

Here's "Earthlings," narrated by Joaquin Phoenix from "Walk the Line" and "Signs."

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Oh, it's sad to see people so misinformed.

Man do all vegetarians and vegans not have a sense of humour? I was joking about the jelly, i was hoping you'd be able to tell, i guess humour is lost on you. Check my earlier posts where i consistently say that everyone is prefectly entitled to their ideas and choices. As long as they're within the law of course. You would think you'd remember that and realise i was joking.

As for honey, what threw me about that is why you wouldn't eat it if you're a vegan. Farming honey doesn't hurt the bees, it could be said it's the most natural, free range type of farming there is. That's what throws me about it.

I understand why you wouldn't eat jelly if you're a vegetarian, next time engage sense of humour before engaging rage. Btw you're obviously trying to disgust people telling them about the hooves etc, won't work on me i'm afraid, nothing wrong with a bit of hoof in the diet!

Oh and yes that was another attempt at levity, things have gotten wholy to heated around here. Especially as this thread should not have involved any moral arguements at all as it was a science question. Are humans built to eat meat? Scientifically i say yes and here is my reasoning again.

Shorter Digestive Tract Evolved (or created if you're a creationist)

This is because we do not need the extensive intestinal tracts of herbivores to break down those tough cell walls that come from plants. The basic plant cell contains two cell walls, one of which is a tougher version and even more difficult to break down than the first. So our digestive tract is shorter like in predatory carnivores.

Meat Digesting Enzymes

The human stomach contains specific enzymes, some of which we've isolated some of which we havn't. Some of them are designed specifically for meat proteins.

Bacteria

Some of the bacteria in the human stomach seem to be adapted to dealing with meat and base their existence upon meat entering the system. Have you ever seen a long term vegetarian go on to meat? They often throw up because their body no longer can deal with it. Probably due to the lack of these bacteria and the meat digesting enzymes no longer being produced by the stomach.

Canine teeth. We havea mix of canine, incisor and molar teeth. This is a perfect omnivore mouth.

So here there is multiple proofs that the human being is omnivorous by nature.


EDIT

Btw i just checked the first of those videos, he claims those are the industry standards of production, when it got to the part with pigs in tiny cages i laughed. Not because i found pigs in cages funny, that isn't good at all, i laughed because i live ina very rural area and have never seen pigs in cages. If the standards are standard then you would think i would have seen it. The farms around here have pigs in fields with aluminium covers for when it's hot, the local farm wher ei buy my eggs has chickens running around the farm. I one tripped over one as i was entering the farm shop.

Industry standards? Utter rubbish.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]