Spanish minister backs legal initiative to bring Israel before ICC for 'war crimes' in Palestine

a reply to: Mahogani

You keep saying genocide I strongly suggest you go look it up and read the definition again, this is a lot of things genocide isnt one of them.

Why else would the IDF be multi cultural?

Why do the arabs have seats in the Israeli govt if the israelis are trying to wipe them out?

Why did local arabs comb the desert looking to rescue people from that concert that was attacked?

a lot of horrific things are happening but genocide isnt one of them its just a cool buzzword with a lot of bad history behind it.

If you have to keep using that word you cant defend your position very well is my guess.

I think this Spanish guy should shut up as someone pointing a finger means the other fingers are pointing at him. Firstly this is still going on and there is no winner yet because if you ignorant lot don't understand the winner decides what a war crime is and who committed it.

Let's start with Spain. It wasn't very long ago that a certain Mr Franco started mass killing his opposition, thousands of Spanish civilians. Have you forgot that episode Mr Spanish Guy. Would you all like me to take you back to WW2 and the bombing of civilians by Russia, UK and the USA, but whoops they won so they get a pass so they killed the Nazis for their crimes as should have happened.

So before anyone starts pointing the finger and shouting war crime take a close look at what your countries have done. And don't get me started on the Dutch, French, Italians, Turkish, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese etc. etc. I can keep going.

There were a small number of Jews who supported Hitler - it still was genocide.

Was the attack on the concert terrorism? - absolutely - it was not war.

What is being done to the Palestinians is not war - it's terrorism. It's aimed to punish a population.


It's not going to stop future attacks. You can't kill enough people to stop terrorism. As Elon Musk said for every potential terrorist you kill you create three.

The US is hated and we pretty much let anyone in - we have had a few attacks but in general we managed to stay safe without killing thousands of children.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
www.presstv.ir...

Side note, but still on topic, for anyone interested. The article used in the opening post was quoted from PRESSTV. This is the state owned and operated propaganda network of the government of IRAN. IRAN ... the country that has sworn to 'wipe Israel off the map', to destroy the country and kill all 6 million Jews that live there.

Interesting to see what the OP considered a reliable and unbiased news source.

It's interesting that the article talks about 'Palestine' as if it actually exists. It does not. There is the West Bank. There is Gaza. There is no official country of "Palestine" yet. It also talks about 'Israels crimes'. Not their 'alleged crimes'. But their 'crimes' as if it was already decided that they have committed them. Very biased article but not a surprise considering it came from the government of IRAN.

originally posted by: Mahogani
a reply to: BukkaWukka

Your whole religious post is beside the point.

Religion is no excuse for genocide, regardless of what religious text you believe in. These people should be in the International Criminal Court for war crimes and killings of innocent civilians. What some book told them to do, in the name of some god, is not a valid legal defense.

I agree. Why are people allowing this to happen in the name of religion? Most of the US and Europe do not follow these extreme interpretations but yet somehow all of the non-extremists are afraid to say anything.

I don't care what book you follow - you should not be allowed to kill others so you can have a little piece of land.

I say take it away from everyone and make it under the UN.

a reply to: Daughter2v2

Last 20 years of warfare triggered after a terror attack would say you are wrong.

It sucks its atrocious its horrible but the people voted hamas in charge, was it fair when the regular german people suffered because hitler was a nut case.. no, what about pol pot in cambodia, nope, stalin in russia no, mao in china no.

Its never fair when regular people suffer do to their bad choices, but as long as hamas exists there will NEVER be peace in the ME because they are a death cult with one aim genocide of israel and everyone in it.

at the very least a plurality of Palestinians accept that ideology, or passively accepted they cant change it. You always have a choice and choices have consequences.

You want to be mad, how did the leaders of hamas become billionaires? Understand that and you will start to understand the horrific state of gaza.

a reply to: Irishhaf

And did those last 20 years of warfare stop terrorism - nope!

We ended up leaving without significant changes.

I don't get it.

Here on ATS people complain they have to be search before boarding a plane.

That's not ok but everyone is cool with killing kids under the guise of safety?

You can't swap freedom for safety and you also can't swap ethics for safety either.

originally posted by: Daughter2v2

originally posted by: Mahogani
a reply to: BukkaWukka

Your whole religious post is beside the point.

Religion is no excuse for genocide, regardless of what religious text you believe in. These people should be in the International Criminal Court for war crimes and killings of innocent civilians. What some book told them to do, in the name of some god, is not a valid legal defense.

I agree. Why are people allowing this to happen in the name of religion? Most of the US and Europe do not follow these extreme interpretations but yet somehow all of the non-extremists are afraid to say anything.

I don't care what book you follow - you should not be allowed to kill others so you can have a little piece of land.

I say take it away from everyone and make it under the UN.

So who gets to "take it all away" and kill millions doing that?

a reply to: Daughter2v2

You forget the thousands of rockets launched at Israel.

a reply to: Leviathan4

A billion people and their friends, Islam, can certainly outshout a few dozen million and their friends.

Who is the persecuted minority?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2


And the iron dome protected people from those attacks.
Killings provided no protection.

That's defense.

a reply to: Daughter2v2

Still an attack, and an act of war.

Which Hamas has vowed to continue along with more October 7th attacks.

Their Charter is for the destruction of Israel, who they deny their very right to exist.

Along with every Western country and killing Christians until a World wide Islamic rule is established.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

There are over a billion Islamic people on Earth, in the ME, Indonesia, Asia and EU, UK and US. Jews are a tiny minority. In Israel mostly.

This is why they have lost the propaganda war. They've been shouted down. Not that they are in the wrong.

Its sickening.

a reply to: Daughter2v2

We ended up leaving without significant change because we fought the war to win hearts and minds and not to destroy and eliminate the enemy.

a reply to: Daughter2v2

Al queda has been reduced to fighting in the civil war in afganistan and thats about it, I wish we had helped afganistan back in 89 when the soviets left and it would be a functioning country but bush sr didnt want to so here we are.

Nope I stopped flying except for a few exceptions, even drove to alaska vs fly. TSA and Homeland security were and are abominations for the republic.

Hamas is the leading political group in gaza, Israel even pulled out of gaza so hamas had free reign and this was the result.

They had plenty of time, money and opportunity, to improve gaza and instead built tunnels, bought weapons and launched attacks against israel.

Its an armed conflict innocents die every day in armed conflicts, if israel wanted to they could kill every man woman and child in gaza, in urban combat there is only so much you can do to limit (you will never eliminate it) innocent deaths.

a reply to: Irishhaf

11,000+ people, mainly children and then women, over 5 weeks.

You call it whatever you like, collateral damage, collective punishment... plenty of euphemisms. I'm going to call it what it is actually is -- genocide.

ETA: Another aspect of this that qualifies it as genocide is the targeting of children. It's no accident that they are the highest causality. By taking them out you're taking out future generations. This is considered ethnic cleansing.

a reply to: Mahogani

the deliberate killing or severe mistreatment of a large number of people from a particular national or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group:

They are out to get Hamas, yes people will get killed considering Hamas built their infrastructure under civilian structures.

They are not out to wipe out the palestinians, or they would have done it after the yom kippur war and the world wouldnt have said a thing.

Your failure to understand the conflict does not make your feels true.

They could have rolled over gaza in about 24 hours wiping everyone out, or bombed it completely into rubble, they didnt, they appear to try and warn people, they send in ground troops (worst way to do genocide in this day and age) to target the stated enemy.

If they were so hell bent on genocide like you claim with zero proof other than your feels, they have a laundry list of ways they could do it that would cost less money, less troops, less equipment.

Worst genocide ever.

Again educate yourself, after a certain period of time it stops being ignorance.

Stop using words you seem to have trouble with applying in a correct manner.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
www.presstv.ir...

Side note, but still on topic, for anyone interested. The article used in the opening post was quoted from PRESSTV. This is the state owned and operated propaganda network of the government of IRAN. IRAN ... the country that has sworn to 'wipe Israel off the map', to destroy the country and kill all 6 million Jews that live there.

Interesting to see what the OP considered a reliable and unbiased news source.

It's interesting that the article talks about 'Palestine' as if it actually exists. It does not. There is the West Bank. There is Gaza. There is no official country of "Palestine" yet. It also talks about 'Israels crimes'. Not their 'alleged crimes'. But their 'crimes' as if it was already decided that they have committed them. Very biased article but not a surprise considering it came from the government of IRAN.

The story isn't made up as you have been trying to imply. Just as you always try to imply forgetting that there is no support for the war and the public opinion is against the war and the atrocities.

You speak of Iran when at the same time you forget the massive propaganda that had been coming out of Israel with its officials claiming there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza when in fact there is a humanitarian disaster and a huge number of civilian deaths.

If you unequivocally support Israel, like you do, and you support the actions by Israel then you will get into desperate attempts to downplay or even dismiss the crimes committed by Israel.

French Lawyer Juan Branco has said they have agreed to represent victims of war crimes and crimes against humanity as well as members of their family, free of charge.

Here is his twitter for once more

twitter.com...

We’ve been asked to represent dual-nationals from Palestine and European countries, both in national jurisdictions and at the International Criminal Court.

We have agreed to represent pro-bono any victim of war crimes or crimes against humanity as well as any member of their family.

originally posted by: crayzeed
I think this Spanish guy should shut up as someone pointing a finger means the other fingers are pointing at him. Firstly this is still going on and there is no winner yet because if you ignorant lot don't understand the winner decides what a war crime is and who committed it.

Let's start with Spain. It wasn't very long ago that a certain Mr Franco started mass killing his opposition, thousands of Spanish civilians. Have you forgot that episode Mr Spanish Guy. Would you all like me to take you back to WW2 and the bombing of civilians by Russia, UK and the USA, but whoops they won so they get a pass so they killed the Nazis for their crimes as should have happened.

So before anyone starts pointing the finger and shouting war crime take a close look at what your countries have done. And don't get me started on the Dutch, French, Italians, Turkish, Arabs, Chinese, Japanese etc. etc. I can keep going.

You think the Spanish woman should shut up? It's a woman by the way and not a man. You dint seem to read the stories as you seem to have been stuck in a dogma. The rest of your analysis is irrelevant.

originally posted by: Lazy88
a reply to: Leviathan4

Hamas never lists any of their soldiers as killed.

So Hamas forces civilians to fight? Or Hamas cowers as civilians?

Not relevant to this conversation.
Of course some members from the group have been killed but Israel has committed a range of crimes against civilians and must be brought before the ICC to face the charges. That's what justice is. Same is true for those who killed the Israeli civilians on the 7th of October. Both parties must make the trip to the ICC and jailed forever. Well....whoever survives the war.