Chemtrails/geo-engineering is no longer conspiracy theory, it’s fact.

originally posted by: IndieA
Weather manipulation goes way back.

During the Vietnam war their was a cloud seeding operation called Operation Popeye

The 54th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron carried out the operation using the slogan "make mud, not war."[6] Starting on March 20, 1967, and continuing through every rainy season (March to November) in Southeast Asia until 1972, operational cloud seeding missions were flown.

HAARP technology was developed in the 90's in Alaska. It can heat the ionosphere causing it to budge which can be used to steer storms, so I've heard.

Or track submarines , but Im sure it’s for destroying the ionosphere so Oprah’s plasma laser can start fires 🔥

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind
All right, I have a question to see if you can answer it satisfactorily. If these "chemtrails" are mostly claimed to be left in the sky by commercial aircraft, what are these commercial aircraft doing when you see them fly overhead?

Traveling from their origin to their destination.

My second question would be this: If the answer to the above question is they're flying passengers from point A to point B, then why would they have the time to circle around overhead and leave trails that look like sky writing? As in not one constant, unbroken trail, but one that starts and stops and ends up looking like symbols in the sky. Wouldn't those "pauses" in the flight plan be detrimental to passengers on a time line?

Spacing and timing. Flights are scheduled with specific departure and arrival times. They can't arrive too early or they get stuck on the ramp, and people get pissed off. So periodically they'll go into a hold somewhere near their destination, or that's convenient. Sometimes it's simply orbiting in an oval pattern, other times it's making several turns. Other times, they are getting too close to an aircraft ahead of them, so they have to make a 360, or an s-turn, or some kind of turn to get required spacing from that aircraft.

Or maybe the times I've seen this being done overhead, those planes aren't commercial aircraft? And if they're not commercial aircraft, what kind of aircraft are they and why are they flying around in patterns and leaving these trails in the sky that are not one constant contrail? True, they could be changing altitudes and some altitudes might not be conducive to leaving contrails so they come out "broken" instead of solid, but what purpose would flying around in circles like this be for? Also to add, they certainly look like commercial aircraft when I've seen them do this, so what's going on with those incidents?

I've seen things like this repeatedly - both day and night.

There are some military aircraft based on commercial, and business aircraft, but they don't make up a large portion of the USAF fleet, except the KC-135. The most common ones to see flying orbits would be the KC-135, the KC-10, and KC-46. They're waiting for a receiver aircraft coming up to get fuel in flight. They aren't changing altitudes, they're flying through areas that are dryer, resulting in their contrail breaking up. These also fly at lower altitudes when they're refueling, to keep them away from high altitude traffic using the jetways above them. They usually fly at the very lower edge of where you'll see contrails form. They all use high bypass turbofans, so it's possible for all three types to leave contrails at that altitude.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: pianopraze

There was a time on ats that chemtrails where considered a hoax subject. In time they where given there own forum... They spay our land and our food. Why would they not spray the air too...

They are a hoax subject. Whether the hoax was deliberately invented as a test to see how well the (then newly emerging) internet could be used to spread disinformation, is a moot point.

Outside of places like ATS, everyone knows them as aircraft contrails - and they'be been subject to hundreds and hundreds of scientfic studies, to understand how and why they form (we've known that the basics of that for 100 years now), determine their impact on climate (they cause a small net warming) and, indeed, especially by the military, to determine ways of developing jet engines that do not produce them.

They have nothing at all to do with cloud seeding - which remains somewhat controversial with regards how effective it really is (and whether overall it's actually beneficial given that if you increase rainfall over one field then there's now, potentially, less rain to fall on the next field) - a highly lucrative business in many countries, from the USA to the UAE, albeit now banned as a weapon of war.

originally posted by: pianopraze
a reply to: network dude

Um… dude.. look at the first quote in my OP. "We have launched 28 balloons…"

I’m extremely aware of these technologies. I’ve made multiple threads on them.

They are injecting particulates to reflect back sunlight. They are playing with fire on a global scale with technologies that could literally kill million or billions if things go wrong.

Pure insanity.

This is exactly the part where all of this falls apart. I have no idea what you consider a "chemtrail", yet you claim they are real. We both agree the concept of SRM is dangerous but one of us is not giving all the information needed to have a logical discussion.

If your goal is to placate the chemtrail believers, super, that's done. But rather than see the same circular argument repeated, why not give the actual conversation a shot?

What is a chemtrails and what makes them different than contrails that persist?

a reply to: network dude

What is a chemtrails and what makes them different than contrails that persist?

We know what contrails are and we know that they can persist and spread out to form a layer or cirrus clouds. We also know that geo-engineering is real and there has been talk of seeding the stratosphere with reflective particles. I would propose that a chemtrail is contrail that has been engineered to do something, like persist an extended period of time or spread colloidal materials.

It makes sense to me, that one on the things geo-engineers would do is play around with contrails science. There could be advantages to having the ability to create a cirrus cloud layer on demand, and this seems to me like something scientists would have fine tuned by now by finding ways to create extra persistent contrails.

source

The Case Orange report cites a number of US patents for the invention of a “Specific contrail generation apparatus for producing a powder contrail having maximum radiation scattering ability for a given weight of material. The seeding material consists of 85 percent metallic particles and 15 percent colloidal silica and silica gel in order to produce a stable contrail that has a residence period of up to 1 to 2 weeks.”

Then in 2009, the publication of a report entitled “Modification of cirrus clouds to reduce global warming” put the case for further geo-engineering strategies [3]. These all had the stated intent of creating a layer of reflective cloud capable of bouncing back the sun's rays to prevent unwanted terrestrial climate heating. The report states that the findings of The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change supports the proposition outlined in the Hughes Aircraft Patent 1991 on stratospheric seeding for reduction of global warming. Hughes was later bought by Raytheon, The US government's private defence contractor. This is the same company that acquired the contract to build HAARP  (The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) in Gakona, Alaska.

Now is the cases that I've mentioned:

1. Watching persistent contrails spread out into a cirrus cloud layer several times a week, for several summers in a row, years ago.

2. What looked like a quickly deployed strategic cloud layer in which planes flew under.

In both cases the the planes that created the contrails came from the direction of a large Air Force base about 100 miles away, so I suspect that they were military planes.

In case #1, it makes sense to me that scientists could be working with the military and their pilots to conduct weather, and other types of research and experiments. I think this is because, military pilots have to do a bunch of flying to keep their hours up, so it makes sense to have their planes multitask their flights for next to no additional cost.

In case #2, I find it hard to believe that the military wouldn't have the ability to use enhanced contrails in order to create a strategic cloud layer as needed. Maybe not in all environmental conditions, but at least in many or most of them.

a reply to: IndieA

thanks for answering, this helps me to understand you, and the argument.

The hang up for me is where someone posts pictures of a trail, or describes contrails, then claims it must be chemtrails. Knowing that contrails can and do persist, logic would force the simple answer that unless we have more information, the white line in the sky is likely a contrail. We can see what plane made the trail on many occasions using flight tracking websites. There are occasions where the planes aren't listed and likely military.

Aside from the lines in the sky aspect, the part where they are actually releasing particulates into the stratosphere is alarming to say the least. This is why I have been active in the chemtrail debate for so long. It's important to know the facts so you know when something bad is really taking place. Right now, the balloons that are releasing the particulates are a problem, in that we have no idea of the long term effects if any. What exactly was released, and when and where will it come back down? Are there any safeguards in place? How often does this happen? Where else has it taken place?

See, if you are focused on a part of this that likely doesn't exist, you miss the important parts.

I'm not saying it's impossible to have chemtrails, but it's unlikely based on the factors that would be required for a plane to have thousands of gallons of something to be sprayed into the sky. Where are these planes? Who does the maintenance on them? Who supplies the chemicals? Why has there never been a picture of any aspect of this that wasn't a blatant hoax? Not one.

Geo-engineering is real, and we all need to keep a close eye on all apsects of it. But we all also need to be relaistic.

a reply to: IndieA

There are, on average, somewhere in the neighborhood of 80,000 flights a day over the US. Just because they came from the direction of a military base doesn’t mean they’re military. Right now, on ADS-B, showing all of North America and the top of South America, they’re tracking 5,000 aircraft.

originally posted by: IndieA
Now is the cases that I've mentioned:

1. Watching persistent contrails spread out into a cirrus cloud layer several times a week, for several summers in a row, years ago.

2. What looked like a quickly deployed strategic cloud layer in which planes flew under.

In both cases the the planes that created the contrails came from the direction of a large Air Force base about 100 miles away, so I suspect that they were military planes.

In case #1, it makes sense to me that scientists could be working with the military and their pilots to conduct weather, and other types of research and experiments. I think this is because, military pilots have to do a bunch of flying to keep their hours up, so it makes sense to have their planes multitask their flights for next to no additional cost.

In case #2, I find it hard to believe that the military wouldn't have the ability to use enhanced contrails in order to create a strategic cloud layer as needed. Maybe not in all environmental conditions, but at least in many or most of them.

what base? What type of plane?

I ask this as I was in the USAF, and I worked on C-130s on the flight line. I can't speak for other planes, but the one's I worked on didn't have any capabilities on their own to do anything like this.

But we do know for certain that in the right conditions, planes at the right altitude can and will leave persistent trails that spread out into a layer of cirrus. The lines are ice crystals floating, just like cirrus clouds. The temperatures at 25,000 feet are very cold. Like -50C cold and colder.

If you suspect the planes are from a base, and they are spraying, watch those planes on flight tracking apps, See what planes are leaving trails. If you find that a commercial airliner with passengers is doing it, there is almost zero chance they did it on purpose. They make money for transporting people and their luggage. They have weight limits on what they can carry. If it's a military plane and you can't find it on flight tracking apps, find out what base it came from and aske the ground crew members who's job it is to pump chemicals into the tanks. Planes are big and I doubt you could hide a giant tanker truck pumping chemicals onto a jet.

originally posted by: psychotrail

originally posted by: IndieA
Weather manipulation goes way back.

During the Vietnam war their was a cloud seeding operation called Operation Popeye

The 54th Weather Reconnaissance Squadron carried out the operation using the slogan "make mud, not war."[6] Starting on March 20, 1967, and continuing through every rainy season (March to November) in Southeast Asia until 1972, operational cloud seeding missions were flown.

HAARP technology was developed in the 90's in Alaska. It can heat the ionosphere causing it to budge which can be used to steer storms, so I've heard.

Or track submarines , but Im sure it’s for destroying the ionosphere so Oprah’s plasma laser can start fires 🔥

I highly doubt that Oprah has her own DEWs, but I wouldn't be surprised if she knows someone, who knows someone.

I do find it concerning that Defense Secretary Mark Esper has announced that both China and Russia have "weaponized space with killer satellites, directed energy weapons, and more"

Do you think China and Russia are the only countries to have weaponized space?

originally posted by: IndieA
a reply to: network dude

What is a chemtrails and what makes them different than contrails that persist?

We know what contrails are and we know that they can persist and spread out to form a layer or cirrus clouds. We also know that geo-engineering is real and there has been talk of seeding the stratosphere with reflective particles. I would propose that a chemtrail is contrail that has been engineered to do something, like persist an extended period of time or spread colloidal materials.

It makes sense to me, that one on the things geo-engineers would do is play around with contrails science. There could be advantages to having the ability to create a cirrus cloud layer on demand, and this seems to me like something scientists would have fine tuned by now by finding ways to create extra persistent contrails.

source

The Case Orange report cites a number of US patents for the invention of a “Specific contrail generation apparatus for producing a powder contrail having maximum radiation scattering ability for a given weight of material. The seeding material consists of 85 percent metallic particles and 15 percent colloidal silica and silica gel in order to produce a stable contrail that has a residence period of up to 1 to 2 weeks.”

Then in 2009, the publication of a report entitled “Modification of cirrus clouds to reduce global warming” put the case for further geo-engineering strategies [3]. These all had the stated intent of creating a layer of reflective cloud capable of bouncing back the sun's rays to prevent unwanted terrestrial climate heating. The report states that the findings of The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change supports the proposition outlined in the Hughes Aircraft Patent 1991 on stratospheric seeding for reduction of global warming. Hughes was later bought by Raytheon, The US government's private defence contractor. This is the same company that acquired the contract to build HAARP  (The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program) in Gakona, Alaska.

All this in absolute secret and done in a manner that means all the other scientists studying the contrails/chemtrails are unaware?

Remember - the only reason we can see contrails is because they are highly reflective ice crystals. Whereas, for example, sulphates - which cause cooling, rather than warming - are usually impossible to see, unless produced in very high quantities - such as a massive volcanic eruptions - and even most people would be completely oblivious; you really need to be a keen meteorological observer to see them.

Also, how do you get commercial aircraft to doing the spraying without the pilots and ground crew knowing?

And why are they mostly spraying the N Hemisphere? The obvious place to spray would be along the equator to get wider distribution of the sulphates.

Of course, if all this were happening, we'd soon know about it from the sudden increase in rain acidity - just one of the many detrimental side effects of the proposed stratospheric spraying and why it isn't being done.

The other clue might be that there was an unexpected hiatus in global warming. In which case I think we can state with 100% confidence it ain't happening

a reply to: network dude

what base? What type of plane? I ask this as I was in the USAF, and I worked on C-130s on the flight line. I can't speak for other planes, but the one's I worked on didn't have any capabilities on their own to do anything like this.

I don't know what type of planes they were, just that they were jets. The Air Force base near me is Patrick.

I'm not an expert on ego-engineering, but I know that there are planes that are involved in spraying things for various reasons, and they are equipped with equipment to do so. So, planes involved in research experiments could easily be equipped with special devices, and pilots can usually be trusted to keep thing secret if needed.

Another possibility is, the experimentation of different types of fuel mixtures and additives, which could be done with or without the pilots knowledge.

You guys make some good points, but I think I have made some as well.

a reply to: pianopraze

Not only that but aircraft contrails actually contain climate changing elements.

Soot particles are mainly composed of carbon in which various metals are also mixed: chromium (Cr), iron (Fe), molybdenum (Mo), sodium (Na), calcium (Ca), aluminum (Al), vanadium (V), barium (Ba), cobalt (Co), copper (Cu), nickel (Ni), lead (Pb), magnesium (Mg), manganese (Mn), silicon (Si), titanium (Ti), zirconium (Zr) [25].

Emissions from aircraft engines can lead to an increase in the concentration of ice nucleating particles, affecting natural cirrus clouds, even in the absence of contrails, thus impacting the climate [25], [26], [27].

Persistent trails cause a change in the Earth’s radiation balance, influence climate and contribute to global warming by inducing a positive radiative forcing (balance of solar energy received and re-emitted by the Earth to space. Positive, the Earth warms up; negative, it cools down). Indeed, these long trails reflect little of the incident solar radiation back to space but absorb the Earth’s infrared radiation. They have an impact on the climate, air quality, on the environment and human health [11, 25, 28].
A recent study has shown that global contrails cirrus radiative forcing will triple by 2050. Improvements in fuel quality and propulsion efficiency, resulting in lower emissions of soot and water vapor, will not compensate for the increase in air traffic and new technologies that allow aircraft to reach higher cruising altitudes conducive to contrails [2]. This will contribute to global warming in the regions concerned. The climatic impact due to contrails requires urgent research [29].

Persistent aircraft trails seem to be a “natural” and unavoidable consequence of aviation. However, other documents referring to a weather modification technology must be taken into account in order to better understand the problem as a whole.

www.degruyter.com...

originally posted by: Txbuffalo18


Wyoming state water department

Wyoming weather mod fact sheet

Just saw this thread and both links already gone

originally posted by: TruthJava

originally posted by: Txbuffalo18


Wyoming state water department

Wyoming weather mod fact sheet

Just saw this thread and both links already gone

They work for me. This is from the second link:

The winter of 2018-2019 was the first time the State of Wyoming conducted cloud seeding operations strictly with aircraft. The Medicine Bow and Sierra Madre Mountain Ranges continue to be the target area for aerial seeding into the current and upcoming winter seasons. Cloud seeding by aircraft is cost-effective, especially due to the region’s terrain and geography. The project’s high-performance King Air aircraft can achieve greater accuracy at targeting favorable seeding areas within clouds, rather than targeting from a fixed location on the ground (ground-based generators).

a reply to: IndieA

Just looking at that general area, I can see almost 800 planes on the tracker. That includes military and civilian.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: IndieA

Just looking at that general area, I can see almost 800 planes on the tracker. That includes military and civilian.

ADS-B Exchange

Pretty cool. I see a few dozen flights in my general area, mostly smaller planes, but yeah I get that there is a lot of air traffic daily.

Are military flights tracked on the ADS-B?

I don't know if the activity that I witnessed came from a military base or not. I said I suspected it did because, a military base seems to be a likely place to be conducting aircraft based classified weather research and experiments, and the planes I saw came from that direction. That direction also happens to be along the coast, which is a popular route, so I get that.

In response to Network Dude, almost all of the activity I witnessed happened years ago, so there's not much I can do now to investigate it, but you provided some advice that could help future researchers.

a reply to: IndieA

there are lots of ways to do this if it were to be a reality. and it has been discussed for a long time. The fact that they are doing this with balloons tells me they likely are doing more than just this. My reasoning for explaining what I do about planes and contrails is the same thing AndyMayhew just mentioned.

SRM or Solar Radiation Management would likely be releasing small particles in the stratosphere. (based on what "they" have explained in the past) If they did that, we wouldn't see white lines in the sky. We wouldn't see anything but a dimmer sky. Perhaps the Carolina Blue sky would look more muted. But the point is, everyone would be pointing to the white lines thinking they have all the answers, when in fact, they are missing the forest behind the trees.

In the end, I can't make any differences, and what you believe is your business. But until you can point to a line in the sky and explain with certainty what's in it beyond some carbon particles and ice, it's all just conspiracy theory, and this thread is proof of absolutely nothing.

a reply to: IndieA

You can find a lot of military flights on ADS-B Exchange. Not all military aircraft have ADS-B but there are currently just over 300 military aircraft showing over the US and top of South America.

a reply to: network dude

SRM or Solar Radiation Management would likely be releasing small particles in the stratosphere. (based on what "they" have explained in the past) If they did that, we wouldn't see white lines in the sky.

Unless the tiny particles were added to jet fuel, so that all of the air traffic could be used to distribute those particles on a massive scale, in which case we would see the usual contrails, which may or may not seem a little enhanced (may linger a little longer for example or look extra reflective.)

Yes, a lot of this is speculation, but speculation based on the fact that weather manipulation experiments and research are ongoing and sometimes classified. I can't help but think that experimenting with contrails is fairly common for Geo-engineers and that a lot of research has already been conducted in this area.