We Are Not Going to Allow Them to Inject Transgenderism into Kindergarten

Im gonna try to come back to this thread when Ive regained my composure concerning the subject. There are extremely polar opposite views about this, but I think the middle ground here is easier to find than we are making it.

Elbo Grees

originally posted by: didntasktobeborned
Im gonna try to come back to this thread when Ive regained my composure concerning the subject. There are extremely polar opposite views about this, but I think the middle ground here is easier to find than we are making it.

Elbo Grees

I love this comment, and I appreciate your magnanimity, but as long as the Trans Activists proclaim "no debate" and "acceptance without exception," I don't see a happy middle.

Speaking to children, there is no place for chemical or surgical intervention. This is unacceptable to the Trans Activists.

Speaking to adults, third spaces -- either gender neutral or trans specific -- are the only acceptable middle ground, and this is unacceptable.

Speaking to language and definitions, sex-based (not "gender" based) words and language are necessary for various reasons (for example, medical), and cannot be re-definied or coopted for the convenience and validation of trans identifying people, but this is unacceptable to them.

Unfortunately, it is the Trans Activists themselves who are refusing to find middle ground.

a reply to: Boadicea


Ok. When I was growing up the first issue I can remember in the mainstream was the homosexuals in the military debate..Many senior members were against allowing homosexuals to serve, still it became an issue. So the answer was "Don't ask, Don't tell"...in other words "Don't SAY gay." Check out the history and outcome of that well thought out policy. What a winner.

Like if nobody talks about it then it doesn't exist. "Don't SAY gay" is a fitting handle for this legislation. Its a type of censorship in my view of things, and an anchor on the childrens development.

MOST people do NOT possess the discernment ability to think their way through this, We will have the boys wear blue and girls wear pink PERIOD crowd amongst the educators which will further phobias of all sorts, not just against gender differences, but any 'perceived' differences that don't go along with the partisan agenda.

All Im seeing here is a way for the parents to keep their collective thumbs on the heads of the children even while they are away from the home 'supposedly' being educated..

If we want a society full of intolerant, mouth breathing, no intellect having buffoons, then by all means keep passing dumb laws...

So instead of a well rounded lesson plan created by educators and qualified people, we will have a list of things not to say and a set of behaviors to be on the lookout for so we can 'nip' the evil trans-indoctrination in the bud..You go Florida.

The middle ground is where the extremists are sorted. That is where we AUTOMATICALLY locate and eliminate the 'perversion' that exists regardless of legislation or which side of things the perversion exists on..But we have to let impartiality and objectivity rule the day, not our fear.

a reply to: didntasktobeborned

Okay, I understand what you're saying, and I don't completely disagree.

But sexuality and biological sex are very different things. One is a personal preference. One is biological fact. And while anyone is welcome to dress and adorn themselves any way they so choose, including embracing or rejecting any and all gender norms, they cannot change their biological reality. And this matters very very much in certain ways, particularly overall health and medical needs and conditions.

But in both situations, and in any and all situations, the conflicts arise when one person's will is forced on another. In the military, it was a problem because (predominantly heterosexual) men did not want homosexual men in their personal spaces ogling and harassing them (much like too many heterosexual men do to women...). The problem was what men perceived to being forced upon them. Likewise with bakers and photographers and so on, who do not want to be forced to participate in a homosexual relationship. For the most part, though, people are quite happy to live and let live.

As long as the Trans Activists demand the participation and validation* of others, and their intrusion/inclusion into single-sex spaces, there will be no middle ground.

*Validation = "Yes, you really are a woman/girl/man/boy."

Personally, I'm all for throwing away gender roles and gender norms and gender stereotypes and letting people be who they are and want to be. But our biological sex is real and significant in too many ways to pretend otherwise.

ETA: Darn! Somehow I lost a whole paragraph!

Children need to be educated on their bodies and their health/medical needs, and one's biological/anatomical sex is a big part of that. Children do not need to be educated on sexuality until they reach puberty, and only then to the extent that it addresses their overall health and medical needs. Children most definitely do not need dangerous and experimental hormone blockers, nor do they need to be chemically or surgically modified. Nor does any child benefit from being told that they aren't "okay" just the way they are, and that they need chemical or surgical modification to be "okay". It's downright cruel.

As long as the Trans Activists demand the participation and validation* of others, and their intrusion/inclusion into single-sex spaces, there will be no middle ground.

I agree, and would consider that more of an extremist and not simply an activist.

Though a question remains.. Where do they draw a line in what is taboo and what isn't? What Im hearing is a lot of 'What if?' To a degree I feel like we shouldn't worry about stuff until stuff happens..to a degree.

You mention the medical aspect, again I agree, there are things that should be between a Doctor and patient exclusively.
I don't believe it is ever too early to teach respect.

Personally I feel like public schools in the US are fishbowls at best, little penal institutions realistically.

a reply to: didntasktobeborned

Somehow this paragraph showed up, so here it is.

But to address what I feel is an important point I included the top statement, and to it I agree and would consider that more of an extremist and not simply an activist.

Again, good point -- We do need to make proper distinctions. Including between extremists and those who simply want to live their own lives in peace. And there are probably far more of the latter than the former. It's also worth noting that there are many types of transgender identifying people under the transgender umbrella.

Unfortunately, it's the extremists who are the activists, imposing their will on the schools and the children, and generally making the demands.

originally posted by: didntasktobeborned
a reply to: Boadicea


So instead of a well rounded lesson plan created by educators and qualified people

I'm going to assume that you haven't worked in education in at least a couple of decades to put "educators and qualified people" in the same sentence as a good lesson plan. Have you taken an honest look at the so-called "curriculum" of most states these days? Or even worse, what actually is taught in the classrooms? (Hint: it's not high on academics). What about the dismal scores in core academic subjects like math and reading? Or the declining quality of graduates going into the education field?
Whatever your opinions on the Florida bill may be, I assure you that parents trusting "educators and qualified people" to teach their kids the academic (the core principle of public schooling, btw) skills they need to succeed in life is exactly how our education system fell so low in the first place.
It's been taken over by corporate money makers, unions, system administrators and data crunchers, and politicians who haven't set foot inside an actual classroom in years, if ever.
It's a racket.
If you have kids, get them out of public schools unless you live in a very particular, increasingly rare, type of area. Private schools aren't all great, either--check out each school as much as you can, home school if you can or check out local options--my area has a lot of parents going in together to teach a hybrid model of online, at-home, in-school, in-community learning. It's all very new, but many parents are beginning to realize that they can no longer rely on the old system to do right by their kids educationally.
That last line applies to a lot right now, actually.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: didntasktobeborned

Somehow this paragraph showed up, so here it is.

But to address what I feel is an important point I included the top statement, and to it I agree and would consider that more of an extremist and not simply an activist.

Again, good point -- We do need to make proper distinctions. Including between extremists and those who simply want to live their own lives in peace. And there are probably far more of the latter than the former. It's also worth noting that there are many types of transgender identifying people under the transgender umbrella.

Unfortunately, it's the extremists who are the activists, imposing their will on the schools and the children, and generally making the demands.

Anyone claiming that biology is imaginary or that they have changed sex or that their "soul was born in the wrong body" is an Extremist, at best. Gender Ideology is, at its core, a religious belief system and indoctrinating public school students, or for that matter, making any law that enshrines this belief system into policy is an overt violation of the 1A. In the cases of male rapists (who claim special "identities") being housed in female prisons this is also a violation of the 14th, the 8th and international human rights laws. In humans, sex is determined at the instant of conception, depending upon whether a X or Y coded sperm (male gamete) fertilizes the egg (female gamete). Sex, in all species, is differentiated by the structures for gamete production. Humans only produce two gametes, as such there are only two human sexes. Even people with DSDs are all either male or female as all DSDs are sex specific. There has never, in the entire history of the species, been a human hermaphrodite, that is a person who produced both gametes. Gender Ideology is a religion based upon regressive sex stereotypes, fueled by porn and funded by Big Pharma.

a reply to: infolurker

The citizens of Hungary voted down all the proposed "woke sex" BS that evil authorities wanted to push on their children.

twitter.com...

Hungarians are very wise. Let's hope Americans vote likewise, whenever these subjects are presented on a ballot.

a reply to: DashVol

For the most part, I agree with your comment. The biology is well established, even for intersex conditions. Sex is objective and can be determined by anyone and everyone who knows what to look for. Gender is subjective and cannot be observed by anyone, much less everyone.

Anyone claiming that biology is imaginary or that they have changed sex or that their "soul was born in the wrong body" is an Extremist, at best.

This is a little more complicated, and considering what nonsense and garbage have been spewed by Trans Activists (and I would say all Activists are extremists, because they take trans "rights" into extreme territory), too many people may just be misinformed and ignorant. These misinformed and ignorant people are not necessarily extremists, at least not in the sense of imposing and forcing their beliefs on others. Many many transsexuals do want to live a quiet and non-intrusive life, not forcing anything on anyone.

Literally everything about gender ideology is based on stereotypes, gender norms and gender roles that have been imposed on us all, to one extent or another. But these stereotypes and gender roles are accepted and promoted and imposed by many, with various intents and purposes, not just Trans Activists.

While the immediate problem is to protect children and women (especially) from the inherent dangers of Trans extremism, the greater problem is that so many people impose and enforce their own brand of gender stereotypes on everyone.

No reason men can't wear dresses or makeup or whatever, just as there's no reason women can't wear pants and go makeupless, etc., as long as it's kept in its proper perspective. It's only a problem when one's person's will is imposed on others.