Poor Kids Banned from School Carnival - NY USA

a reply to: Mugly

Really?

I'm pretty old, and from K on we had the requisite box of Kleenex and box of crackers. Those went into the classroom cupboard and were brought out one at a time to help get the classroom as a whole started out for the year. The crackers were only for K and 1st grades when kids got a classroom snack of crackers and milk, but if those weren't classroom shared supplies that were added to the school supplies lists ... I'm not sure what else you would call them.

a reply to: theantediluvian

My school had a carnival every year in grade school and the purpose was fundraising for the school. So, yes, the admission was part of the point as were all the different game booths and other things you might have paid a small fee for (most were in the price of admission). If you were paying the admission fee for the kids, it was defeating part of the purpose, and frankly, it was a lot more fun and less stress than the yearly "sell stuff" fundraiser the school also sent home.

Parents and older kids could also opt in to help by baking prizes, running game booths and other things related to the carnival.

But the main source of funds was the admission with indoor concessions being second.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

But the carnival WAS paid for. The school made a profit and enough of a profit that they could afford to cover the kids who didn't pay several times over.

So? Is it fair to make some kids pay and others not? Who decides who is not poor enough to kick in? What if everybody said they couldn't afford to kick in?

Either one has to find a way to make the event "no fee" (because nothing is "free") for everyone or insist that all attendees kick in.

I can't count the times where a medicaid patient said they didn't have $3 for a copay (yes, medicaid copay is $3) but reeked of cigarette smoke or I saw them later on buying a carton of smokes. Very often such issues are a matter of poor priorities on the side of the parents.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone knows that some activities cost money and that public schools operate on very limited budgets (as do many families) but why was this event necessary? We're talking about little kids, not even kids old enough to push a lawn mower or weed their elderly neighbors gardens to make a few bucks.

There's a lot of fun to be had that doesn't involve paying $10 for 45 minutes in a bouncy house and a bag of popcorn. If the intent of the school was to put together a fun day for the students, then why not do something that didn't cost money or do some fundraising? Nobody does bake sales anymore?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Mean, sure. A lot of times schools do sales of things like wrapping paper and candy to pay for fun things like a carnival so nobody had to pay to attend.


That said, fun things have to be paid for somehow. They just don't magically appear. I wonder how many of those kids have parent that are able to find the money for a pack or two of smokes every day.

Yea they should put that on the school lesson plan.

Show the children how to raise and make money for events, this way douche-bag parents, and douche-bag administrators don't have to act self-centered.

They are eventually going to have to learn how to make money, so why not in school? This way the kids will learn that they can pay for things themselves.

Education at it's finest.

a reply to: theantediluvian

While I am not necessarily commenting on this specific situation, I am pointing out a couple things:

1.) Why do we make the assumption that every kid who didn't pay decided not to because they were too poor? Voice of experience says that some kids just plain forget from time to time whether they could pay or not. Been there; done that. To make the assumption that the only reason kids didn't pay is because they couldn't frankly says something about us.

2.) That it's now unfair to have a fun fundraiser because some people might be unable to participate in it. I thought the point of a fundraise was to raise funds, and in order to raise funds, you have to get people to want to give you money through various means. Using a fun carnival is simply one smart way to do it.

Honestly, had they had a bake sale to raise funds and there had been world class brownies that some kids couldn't afford, someone would have written an article about how unfair that was, and we'd all be here discussing that.

a reply to: Realtruth

But what about the kids who can't afford those fun things?

And let's not forget that the new food police rules don't allow those fun things to be sold in schools anymore.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

I can't count the times where a medicaid patient said they didn't have $3 for a copay (yes, medicaid copay is $3) but reeked of cigarette smoke or I saw them later on buying a carton of smokes. Very often such issues are a matter of poor priorities on the side of the parents.

But there are also many times the parents just don't have the extra money.

Like Homer said in an earlier post, he threw his permission slips away most of the time because he knew his parents didn't have the extra money.

I was in the same boat decades ago. Granted it didn't last forever, but we struggled as a family for many years.

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in there mouth, many times people make bad decisions that cost the entire family, but in a country like the USA children shouldn't be disenfranchised because they lack the means.

Kids like McDonalds. (I like McDonalds, sue me)

McDonalds made a profit last year.

Yet they didn't give away Happy Meals to those kids who couldn't afford it.

Kids like Apple products.

Apple made a profit last year.

Yet they didn't give away iPads to those kids who couldn't afford it.



Much ado about nothing, in my humble opinion. Some things parents can afford, some things parents can't. In real life, not everyone gets a trophy for participating. Not everyone gets to do what others are doing.

Lexus made a profit last year. I can't afford a Lexus. So should I get a free car because I couldn't afford it?

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: NavyDoc

Everyone knows that some activities cost money and that public schools operate on very limited budgets (as do many families) but why was this event necessary? We're talking about little kids, not even kids old enough to push a lawn mower or weed their elderly neighbors gardens to make a few bucks.

There's a lot of fun to be had that doesn't involve paying $10 for 45 minutes in a bouncy house and a bag of popcorn. If the intent of the school was to put together a fun day for the students, then why not do something that didn't cost money or do some fundraising? Nobody does bake sales anymore?

The intent was to raise funds--hence the charge to attend--and those funds may have been intended to do nice things for the entire student body. I doubt that they were intended to fund the principle's next vacation.

My biggest beef would be doing it during school hours. The taxpayer is not paying for the school to have fund raisers on the clock and if it was done on a Saturday or after school, the kids who couldn't, or didn't want to, attend could have been at home or somewhere else. Raising funds during the school day where kids are obligated to be there and not attending is almost punitive in nature reeks of coercion, IMHO. I can guarantee that there were a lot of kids who attended only because they didn't want to be sequestered in the gym all afternoon.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: NavyDoc

Mean, sure. A lot of times schools do sales of things like wrapping paper and candy to pay for fun things like a carnival so nobody had to pay to attend.


That said, fun things have to be paid for somehow. They just don't magically appear. I wonder how many of those kids have parent that are able to find the money for a pack or two of smokes every day.

Yea they should put that on the school lesson plan.

Show the children how to raise and make money for events, this way douche-bag parents, and douche-bag administrators don't have to act self-centered.

They are eventually going to have to learn how to make money, so why not in school? This way the kids will learn that they can pay for things themselves.

Education at it's finest.

They actually used to teach things like that and things like household budgets, savings accounts, how a checking account works, etc.

a reply to: beezzer

The only main issue I have with this is it was "On School Time", if it was a separate event "Off School Time", then no issue.

This means they disenfranchised, and singled-out children who couldn't pay for an event, on tax -payers dollars and time the children, and administrators should have in session.

With that logic, it means children who can't afford things, are simply singled-out in all cases.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: NavyDoc

I can't count the times where a medicaid patient said they didn't have $3 for a copay (yes, medicaid copay is $3) but reeked of cigarette smoke or I saw them later on buying a carton of smokes. Very often such issues are a matter of poor priorities on the side of the parents.

But there are also many times the parents just don't have the extra money.

Like Homer said in an earlier post, he threw his permission slips away most of the time because he knew his parents didn't have the extra money.

I was in the same boat decades ago. Granted it didn't last forever, but we struggled as a family for many years.

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in there mouth, many times people make bad decisions that cost the entire family, but in a country like the USA children shouldn't be disenfranchised because they lack the means.

OK, so what if you fight the school carnival and get it banned only to later on discover that part of its purpose was to help pay for a year end to trip to a Six Flags or similar amusement park?

You did it because at the time, those poor, poor kids who didn't have $10 missed out on the parent crafted games and the cake walk with Mrs. Smith's homemade cakes and pies and having a change to dunk the principal. Now, there is no way they'll be able to afford the $40 price of admission which the fundraiser you helped torpedo out of a sense of fairness was designed to help pay for them and every other kid in the class.

a reply to: Realtruth

Kids are always singled-out.

Be it cheerleading, sports, academics.

Do we allow everyone to play football?
Do we give everyone an "A" on a test?

charity begins at home:
did any teachers parents or other children attempt to find a way?

in some ways that speaks volumes

ps
hi Beez
apple?
a company the needs suicide nets for its employees isn't likely to care about anybody
just sayin

wacked onalds gives out free coffee ( refills at least) to seniors..so they will bring those rich kids around I guiess

originally posted by: NavyDoc

They actually used to teach things like that and things like household budgets, savings accounts, how a checking account works, etc.

I understand that.

But these are elementary students K through 5th, not middle school, or high school.

Life is going to be tough enough for them, in a few years, why not let them be children for a few years.

a reply to: Realtruth

One of the most basic lessons of all is that life's not fair, and I started learning that one before I went to school.

originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: NavyDoc

I can't count the times where a medicaid patient said they didn't have $3 for a copay (yes, medicaid copay is $3) but reeked of cigarette smoke or I saw them later on buying a carton of smokes. Very often such issues are a matter of poor priorities on the side of the parents.

But there are also many times the parents just don't have the extra money.

Like Homer said in an earlier post, he threw his permission slips away most of the time because he knew his parents didn't have the extra money.

I was in the same boat decades ago. Granted it didn't last forever, but we struggled as a family for many years.

Not everyone is born with a silver spoon in there mouth, many times people make bad decisions that cost the entire family, but in a country like the USA children shouldn't be disenfranchised because they lack the means.

Not going to a party is not "disenfranchisement."

I grew up dirt poor--choose between food and heat sort of poor--and it taught me the value of working smart, working hard, and setting priories.

Certainly it's possible that some families didn't have the ten bucks, however, in my personal experience, it is also very likely that the ten bucks they did have went in for a carton of smokes.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Realtruth

Kids are always singled-out.

Be it cheerleading, sports, academics.

Do we allow everyone to play football?
Do we give everyone an "A" on a test?

Yes, but a carnival is suppose to be a community event, not sports, or academic.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to jump, on moon-walk, or slide down a slide.

Again like I said, if the event wasn't "On School Time", I believe there wouldn't have been any issue, but when you sequester, single-out, and disenfranchise a group of kids, because there parents either can't pay, or won't, it becomes a crap storm like we are seeing.

a reply to: ketsuko

Think about what you just said. Charging parents admission to one thing (and paying a company 2/3 of said admissions) in an effort to raise funds for the same students for admission to something else?

That has to be the worst sales pitch I've ever heard.