What is the Penalty?

Is it so harsh that you are affraid to tell the truth about freemasonry?

www.ephesians5-11.org...

I'm not a mason, therefore I can have no quarrel re your obvious disillusionment with the organisation, that's for those with knowledge of the subject to discuss.

But certain things on that webpage rather disturb me, and they have absolutely nothing to do with any religious beliefs of my own. You obviously believe that there is only one deity/Supreme Being - the God of the Bible. Now I'm very happy for you about that - BUT.....

This is extremely dogmatic, & not a little disrespectful of others with different beliefs. Religious tolerance, if universally practised, would make this world a far better place.

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Is it so harsh that you are afraid to tell the truth about freemasonry?

www.ephesians5-11.org...

HA HA HA... quite good and fun reading. But, not true. If I decided to leave masonry tomorrow I could. I can just walk in there and say I demit.

Once a mason, always a mason... this applies only for people that want to be masons. Many are not able to continue being active members due to personal issues. Even if 20 years go by, they are still a brother. If someone demit on their own free will, then they are not considered a brother in my book.

Now, I had a TOP SECRET SCI/TK/G clearance in the military. Do, I know secrets? Yes,... I am not in any more, but I would still never tell them. Why? ... Because I made an oath to God and my country.

I would never tell the secrets of masonry as well. Even if I got out... Why? Because I made an oath to God. I am a just and upright person with morals. If I broke my oath, I would not have those morals left. Now, if I felt for one moment that Freemasonry was anything other than just and right itself, then I would not have a problem telling it`s secrets as I am sure that my God would want me to speak out. But, it does not violate even one of my belief systems. Those delusional paranoid stories are fun to read, but they definitely belong in Fiction.

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Is it so harsh that you are affraid to tell the truth about freemasonry?

www.ephesians5-11.org...

No. Those of us who ARE Masons (and even a few who AREN'T) have been telling the truth about Freemasonry. It's the liars, frauds and money-hungry opportunists who have sites like the one you posted who ARE NOT telling the truth. But they KNOW the truth and their penalty is greater than any symbolic Masonic penalty ever could be...."for there is nothing more stinging than self reproach. We can not flee from it...we cannot silence it."

Regards

It is easy to leave the masons as it is to join. Im starting to get sick and tired of reading anti-freemasonry threads, i still don't know how the local masons of ATS keep their cool

Originally posted by infinite
It is easy to leave the masons as it is to join. Im starting to get sick and tired of reading anti-freemasonry threads, i still don't know how the local masons of ATS keep their cool

infinite,

It's difficult sometimes (and sometimes I don't...but I try to) I just try to keep in mind that a lot of these posters (trolls) write such garbage for the sole purpose of getting a heated response. They thrive on such things...making someone mad who's unaccessible...miles away on a computer. They do it this way because they're cowards. Others do it because they're ignorant. They simply can't help it. They've heard something negative that someone (usually a fundamentalist Christian) has said about Masonry and it doesn't matter how much non-fundamentalists or Masons say...they will believe only the bad, not the good. There's something strange in human nature that causes that. I will try to answer legitimate questions, shoot down an occasional crack-pot, but after that I tend to leave it alone. It's a lot like mud-wrestling with a pig....sooner or later you realize that the pig is enjoying it.

Regards

Originally posted by infinite
It is easy to leave the masons as it is to join. Im starting to get sick and tired of reading anti-freemasonry threads, i still don't know how the local masons of ATS keep their cool

Its that thick reptilian skin we have! Hard to penetrate.....

It would be funny if it was in a movie or something but in the 3 years plus I have been harrassed by the bretheren of the rosey cross for not joining I know that at least two of my most zealous antagonists have been booted out of the cult due to non-delivery of the objective so to speak.
Problem is that in the process of they have compiled so much dirt on themselves that they are effectively silenced forever.
Heck, I almost feel sorry for one of them.

This is the true meaning of the Once a Mason, always a Mason statement.

Metaphorically Freemasonry asks you to build an escape proof coffin and ly in it, then they just nail down the lid on you, you become trapped by your own beliefs and actions.

In order to progress you must comit yourself beyond the point of recovery so after a short while there is nothing left to do other than dig a deeper hole.

Leaving serves no purpose, they own you anyway so it really isn't an option.

I'm yet to meet anyone who has actually left on their own accord after the 3rd degree, but during my (refused) initiation it was alluded to me that there is an average turn over of around 10% per year and this seems to be consistent with what I has seen since.

There's a great deal of religious prejudice & dogma on that site in your sig, MrNECROS, and quite a few references from organisations with their own agendas which I've no wish to go into here, apart from pointing out to you that POV's presented in this manner are really off-putting to truth-seekers & other interested parties.

Plus there's the over-emphasis on rituals, the usual flogging of a dead horse, so to speak. Most societies seem to have their own special rituals - take the Catholic & Anglican churches as an example - or the Elks, the Buffaloes, the Boy Scouts - or whatever. It's all symbolic, after all.

Please provide some proof that it's as difficult as you say to leave the masons, cos as it's worded in your post, well quite frankly, it sounds like so much balderdash. And this thread was supposed to be about Freemasonry after all, & not Rosicrucians.

HaHa I have not heard from you in a while. I have been busy with other things.... Great to see that the troll is still trolling.... We all have our roles in life to play.

Too bad most on this site are sane...

You certainly are a great read though. You should write comedy..

Ok, please send me a U2U with the contact information for the ROSEY CROSS and your name and I will ask them to stop harassing you. bwahaha



[edit on 8-8-2004 by JCMinJapan]

because a Rosy Cross ISN'T masonry. Its not even an affiliated body.

Order of the Rosy Cross


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The Order of the Rosy Cross, or Rosicrucians, is a worldwide esoteric society and fraternity officially called the Ancient Mystic Order of Rosae Crucis (AMORC), whose official emblem is a cross with a single rose in the center. The order operates on lodge system and teaches metaphysical-scientific philosophy of 'practical arts and sciences'.

The Rosicrucian society was apparently founded in Europe in medieval times (its existence can be traced back to 12th century in Europe and earlier in Asia), and was given impetus by the publication of three anonymous pamphlets in successive years:

1. Fama Fraternitatis (Account of the Brotherhood, 1614)
2. The Confessio Fraternitatis (Confession of the Brotherhood, 1615)
3. The Third Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosencreutz (1616)

They describe the initiation into the spiritual and alchemical mysteries of the East (particularly of ancient Egypt) of Christian Rosenkreuz, who was allegedly born in 1378 but is presumed to be an allegorical figure. The expressed purpose of the Fama and associated writings was the spiritualization of individuals according to quasi-Christian and esoteric principles. Scholars believe these pamphlets, which are anti-papal and promote Protestant ethics, were probably written by the German Lutheran pastor Johan Valentin Andreae (1586-1654).

Despite arousing enthusiasm in the expanding occult community, no later records exist for membership of the Order. In the eighteenth century various tracts and manifestoes were published asserting the existence of the Brothers of the Rosy Cross, and several groups claiming Rosicrucian origins were active in Russia, Poland, and Germany.

The first Rosicrucian society in the United States was founded in Pennsylvania in 1694. In 1909 Harvey Spencer Lewis founded The Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis (AMORC) which now has its headquarters in San Jose, California. Lewis claimed to have been initiated into the Brotherhood in France. The AMORC is an international fraternal order that operates through a system of lodges and fosters the Rosicrucian philosophy of developing humankind's highest potentialities and psychic powers. Through study and practice, members strive for the perfection with the ultimate goal being admittance into the Lodge and the attainment of true knowledge, or cosmic consciousness. Students progress through twelve degrees of mastery, with the tenth through twelfth degrees conferred psychically, usually in the Order's temples in the East. As in Theosophy, such perfection comes only after various reincarnations, each devoted to achieving a greater oneness with the Supreme Being. Rosicrucians claim influence on Freemasonry, especially since the eighteenth Masonic degree is the Sovereign Prince Rose Croix of Heredom.

Blue lodges don't solicit members. So his attack on Masonry via his angst with the Rosicrucians is pure ignorance. Reading his posts, it seems to me that MrNecros is in serious need, as was Samael Moser, of serious mental health intervention. I know a man once who felt I was "Chief of Civilian Intelligence" and applied to work for me on a restaurant napkin covered in gibberish.

Belief in little grey men and men in black does not make them true, and in the case of MrNecros, his attacks on Masonry via his supposed problems with the Rosicrucians is de facto evidence of his mistaken position. Rosicrucians are NOT masons, though SOME masons may be members of the Rosicrucians. Some workers at Southern California Edison are masons, but that does not make SCE a masonic organization... same for Rosicrucians.

But, after all, the goal is not that the Rosicrucians injured or bothered him, the intention is to slander Masons, and once more, the intellectual, moral and spiritual bankruptcy of the masonic critic position is amply demonstrated.

Thank you MrNecros, for so ably demonstrating the bankrupt position of the masonic critic.

I did find this with a little searching.

www.nevadamasons.org...

The Royal Order of Scotland: Now, to become a Knight of the Rosey Cross you must first be a Brother of Herridom. To be a Brother of Herridom, you must be a Master Mason in good standing for 5 years. Then after that, you can become a Knight of the Rosey Cross.

McNecros
It would be funny if it was in a movie or something but in the 3 years plus I have been harrassed by the bretheren of the rosey cross for not joining

You said 3 years right. hmmm........ Something is wrong here.

Wow, I learn something new every day.

[edit on 8-8-2004 by JCMinJapan]

He wasnt reffering to them JCM, but rather the Rosicrucians, AMORC, ancient mystical order of the rose cross, sometimes commonly reffered to as the brotherhood of the Rosey Cross, which is a funny title in the first place as they admit women as well as men???? There are also various rites and organizations which use the above terms, except for AMORC. AMORC, R+C, Rosea Cruis, there are sevaral but none of which are related to Freemasonry. What you mentioned seems to be a reffering to the Masonic Degree of Knight of the Rosey Cross, this however has nothing to do with Rosicrucians or any of their orders.

Regardless to all that, Mr. Necros is once again full of it, and way off. It amazes me how often you totally miss the target of truth. One would think that out of mere probability given the amount of (slanderous, inaccurate) posts you make, you would eventually nail one or two hits on target. However, perhaps truth is not your target.

Additionally while im at it, I would just like to state for the record that I believe your post about the above topic and story from which it derives is pure fiction. I could never imagine why someone would try so hard to recruit someone of such low character and intelligence as you.

Hotep

Originally posted by Khonsu
He wasnt reffering to them JCM, but rather the Rosicrucians, AMORC, ancient mystical order of the rose cross, sometimes commonly reffered to as the brotherhood of the Rosey Cross, ..................
.............What you mentioned seems to be a reffering to the Masonic Degree of Knight of the Rosey Cross, this however has nothing to do with Rosicrucians or any of their orders.

Sorry, I was trying to read into it and put some intelligent spin on it........
I figured he just got the names wrong. Never heard of the other group, so cannot comment. I would love to know who McNecros is that it is SOOOO important they he is recruited by them...... (that is me trying to not burst out laughing) ........ Sorry, I could not hold it in.....

There are two types of masons. One who deny the truth because they are too blind to see the truth and then one who are high up and would never divulge the truth.

Ephesians 6:11-12

"Put on all the armor that God gives you, so that you will be able to stand up against the Devil's evil tricks. For we are not fighting against human beings but against the wicked spiritual forces in the heavenly world, the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark age."

I am not fighting against human beings but against freemasonry, occultists, nazis, illuminatis, new world order elite and racists.

Edit: Why do I have a warn? I am speaking my mind in the attempt to save people from their own demise. Is this country not free anymore?
[edit on 8-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

[edit on 8-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
It would be funny if it was in a movie or something but in the 3 years plus I have been harrassed by the bretheren of the rosey cross for not joining I know that at least two of my most zealous antagonists have been booted out of the cult due to non-delivery of the objective so to speak.

Well, I had hoped you'd wise up. But I see that's not the case.
I find it unimaginable that you have been followed, chased and who knows what else for 3 years...I doubt you are that important, even to this "brotherhood"...whoever they really are.
You haven't hit your head or anything lately????

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
There are two types of masons. One who deny the truth because they are too blind to see the truth and then one who are high up and would never divulge the truth.



I am not fighting against human beings but against freemasonry, occultists, nazis, illuminatis, new world order elite and racists.

And I can also say that there are two types of people in this world. One lot who say "there are two types of [insert your choice here], & the others who do not say this. Particularly if I have not a skerrick of proof.

You are fighting against a number of groups who offend you, & while I can respect your choice, I would like to point out that I am deeply offended by religious prejudice & dogma, as I have already replied to you concerning your sig. But at the same time, I try to be respectful of differing viewpoints, & I don't make sweeping statements against them without firm proof.

IMO you are close to using prejudice to cross the boundaries of politeness here. Regarding your "warn", click on it & you will see that it was for excessive quoting.

Edit - I did reply to you regarding obvious dogma on a link of yours, not a sig.

[edit on 8/8/04 by Bastet]

[edit on 12/8/04 by Bastet]

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
There are two types of masons. One who deny the truth because they are too blind to see the truth and then one who are high up and would never divulge the truth.

Ephesians 6:11-12

"Put on all the armor that God gives you, so that you will be able to stand up against the Devil's evil tricks. For we are not fighting against human beings but against the wicked spiritual forces in the heavenly world, the rulers, authorities, and cosmic powers of this dark age."

I am not fighting against human beings but against freemasonry, occultists, nazis, illuminatis, new world order elite and racists.

Edit: Why do I have a warn? I am speaking my mind in the attempt to save people from their own demise. Is this country not free anymore?

The meter maid speaketh, I was of course unaware of the Type 1, and Type 2 designations of my Brethren, is there a label somewhere I could check (certainly we're all "marked")?

DP, you remind me of "jhova", a past poster on this forum (I would suggest using the members section search, followed by a listing of posts). The reason you remind me of "jhova" was that he felt that by "fighting" (as if a post on an internet forum equates to the blood shed by true heroes) he would right the wrongs he personally felt had befallen him. Surely some mysterious (no AK, I did not say Mystery Religions... Slowly I turned... Step by step...), and all powerful group was responsible for his lot in life. By the way the Illuminati don't exist anymore, just stick with the Freemasons, Occultist?, Racists, Nazis, and New World Order (we prefer to be publicly known as the "Bilderberg" ).

As to your "Red Laundry Tag Of Shame, RLTOS", it was for plagiarism, which is a direct violation of the "Terms and Conditions of Use", not for speaking the truth, nor for some heroic attempt to "save" anyone. ATS is a free speech forum, diverse, membership comprising of the better part of the world, portraying yourself as the "Martyred Christian Warrior" won't play here.

The "Truth" about DP's "RLTOS".

No, i don't intend to stop at using words on the website. I intend on forming a coallition.

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
No, i don't intend to stop at using words on the website. I intend on forming a coallition.

A man of action! Why stop at words? The whole world awaits your leadership, I suggest a meeting of all member nations at the U.N., they should be receptive. I mean how often does an offer of a modern day "Crusade" come around? I'll bet the fundamentalist Muslim nations will line up real quick.

p.s. What's a "coallition"?