What is the Penalty?

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Alex, the realm of the Triangle and Square as you say are also expressed by McClenechan, but they are just an alegory for the same thing, The Triangle in Freemasonry is generally used to refer to the celestial and the Square to the corpreal.

Yes, you are correct. The square represents the physical world, the triangle the spiritual.

It is just an embelishment of the Black/White principle of opposing forces

No, it isn't, if I understand what you're trying to say. Freemasonry is explicity NOT gnostic in the sense of believing that the physical world is evil and the spiritual world is good. The fact is that the indented tessel consists of triangles, and thus brings to the mind of the candidate the idea of divine providence.

, as stated throughout the Scottish Rite, culminating in the 28th Degree.
From there onwards the last two rituals explain the trial of Jaque Demolay

Not up here, they don't. Although the trial is mentioned, it's a VERY minor part of the degrees.

to cite the early lessons of Freemasonry as his defence

Nope. The trial is merely mentioned. The candidate is assumed to have a knowledge of the facts. (As an aside, and I don't want to accuse you of this if it isn't in fact what you mean, so forgive me, but I did go through the degrees of the Scottish Rite up to the 32nd, and not only do I know what I'm talking about, I don't need to be told by you).

and martyrdom in Freemasonry and the last 3 degrees are not regarded as significant,

No, this is absolutely untrue. The last three degrees are profoundly significant (just as are all Scottish Rite degrees). Indeed, they are mandatory degrees, and it is required that the candidate see them in extensio, unlike a number of other degrees.

but the ritual ends with the recognition that the Noviate already knew "The Royal Secret."

That's the opposite of the truth. The candidate doesn't comprehend "The Royal Secret" without considerable soul-searching, research, meditation, and (dare I say it?) prayer.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
GadFly,
It is a common misconception by people who do not know what Freemasonry is about that there are different kinds of Masons etc...
What you don't realise is that you are talking about a mind control cult - these individuals are not entirely responsible for their own actions and are deliberatally misled into performing the wicked deeds of their masters so to speak.

But, I do know. This is what puzzles me about some of the "mason" posters.

Freemasonry isn't just like the Lions Club or The Boy Scouts, it is much more like Scientology, The Orange People, Branch Davidians and suchlike.
Of course none of these groups would like to think of themselves as a cult, because cults are "bad" and their society is "good".

I don't know anything about The Orange People, however your references to the others may be closer than many want to admit.

lecture mode
The term "mind control" is just wrong. This term has been so over used and slung far too widely. There is a much older term (concept) that I believe is far, far more accurate- PEER PRESSURE

While Scientology has taken many 'mind control' beatings (remember I know nothing of the Orange people) the others operate differently, more subtlety is involved.

Again MrNECROS you may not be far from the mark, keep shooting. I personally believe the "control" methods you are striving to find are a tad different than you suspect at the present.

A friendly suggestion- as to your ��wicked deeds�� I present this to you- actions and inactions are the same as deeds but the words are different. As you pursue this outing perhaps a change in terminology might provide better results?

Another point to ALWAYS remember- IF a society is secret then how or why do defenders rail like banshees? (tessel- give me a break )

"be ye off or from?"

[edit on 14/8/2004 by PublicGadfly]

Originally posted by PublicGadfly
But, I do know. This is what puzzles me about some of the "mason" posters.

Gadfly, you've made it eminently clear that you don't know anything about Freemasonry.

Another point to ALWAYS remember- IF a society is secret then how or why do defenders rail like banshees? (tessel- give me a break

)

In what way do you want a break about "Tessel?" If you don't know what the indented tessel is, it just proves further that you don't know anything about Freemasonry.

I've said quite publicly, several times in the past, that my name is Alex Kennedy, I am a member of Avon Glen Lodge #170 on the Grand Register of Alberta, Companion of North Star Chapter #2, RAM, on the Grand RAM Register of Alberta, and member of the Edmonton Valley of the Scottish Rite. (I am also an officer in Mitzpah Chapter Rose-Croix in Edmonton, within the Scottish Rite).

If you go to this website, you can see that I am inner guard for Avon Glen #170.

"be ye off or from?"

Well, obviously ye be off your nut, if you're seriously writing what you believe.

Gadfly - you may think my terminology is a bit extreme but I�m afraid it isn�t.
This is largely the problem with the general public�s conception of Freemasonry, the group is extreme but the general public doesn�t like to believe that such extreme behavior is possible in our seemingly enlightened and civilized society.
It�s very much like how you can�t explain to people how there are entire countries in the world (i.e. North Korea and Nazi Germany) that are/were systematically mind controlled.
Mind control is the right word � the whole Pavlov�s Dog methodology is in use in Freemasonry as well as the use Benzodiazopine drugs on ALL initiates � its just not revealed to them until they come to realize it was �for their own good.�
I kid you not, there is an extensive course of �live role play situations�, formal rituals, carrot and stick negotiation, confessional redemption and a constant emphasis on there being an evil lurking enemy (anti-masonry) that must be defeated at all costs, members are encouraged to spy on each other to ensure that they are staying �true� to the cause �the list goes on.
I was there so to speak.

Just look at how worked up they get over the reference to one of their symbols - the post I made was at least partly correct, yet they start jumping up and down over the slightest error in the statement because it "proves" that the post was completely wrong and therefore whoever posted it was trying to spread lies and deceit about their *beloved* craft.

Alex - I don't know what Rite you are talking about but its pointless to try and BS me on the Scottish Rite - I have copies of most of the monitors in full and have read both Pike's "Moral & Dogma" and McClenechan's "The Book" cover to cover.

There is 14 significant degree�s, meaning a degree where an answer and moral are provided to the candidate.
All the other degrees are either subcomponents of a significant degree or re-iterations of earlier degrees.
The 32nd Degree can not be performed out of sequence because it is a re-iteration of ALL 14 significant degrees, it however is an acknowledgement that an individual has achieved all of these principles in real life and hence is now fit to wear the dress of a Knight.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Alex - I don't know what Rite you are talking about but its pointless to try and BS me on the Scottish Rite - I have copies of most of the monitors in full and have read both Pike's "Moral & Dogma" and McClenechan's "The Book" cover to cover.

Mr. Necros, I'm tempted to say something rude, but I won't. It's been established, certainly to my satisfaction, that what you have are the rituals of the irregular Cerneau body of the Psuedo-Scottish Rite, not the Scottish Rite rituals. I know you'll come back with some nonsense argument about how they "must" be real because Walter Blingblong in his famous book, "Look at me, I'm a Mason!" said so, but it's just not true. I've been through the Scottish Rite. So have a number of other Masons on this board. Significantly, YOU HAVEN'T. Plain and simple. You're talking out of your hat.

About your statement that Masons are protecting their "*beloved*" fraternity... it's true! What is there to be ashamed of? I love Freemasonry, and yes, I try to defend it against those (like you) who have nothing better to do with their time than spread lies and hatred. You speak of Nazi Germany -- wouldn't things have gone better there if there had been more people willing to defend Judaism? Many of the same lies (they're satanists, they kill children, they control the world, they're planning on drugging the water) were told about the Jews as are now told about the Masons. I hope you're proud to be in such exalted company.

Actually no Alex � the �rituals of the irregular Cerneau body of the Psuedo-Scottish Rite� are a complete fiction � they don�t exist, it is just your worshipful master playing with you to convince you that the only way to learn them is through your usual process of blind obedience.
The rituals I have copies of are as documented by Brother Charles T Mc Clenachan and Albert Pike , they are clearly labeled as such and are authentic.
�The Book� also describes the full hierarchy of the Scottish Rite and anyone who has actually read it can clearly see that what you say is not correct.

As far as you having completed the Scottish Rite, I find it highly unlikely.

If you want a copy of these rituals just point me to an FTP site of your choice � they are now fully scanned and formatted.

As far as ME spreading lies and hatred the statement is so of the scale of reality it�s ridiculous.

You must realize that most of what you�re saying is untrue � no doubt because as you arte taught in Freemasonry that only you can understand it so if you told the truth it would be misunderstood.
Come on wake up � you can�t hide from yourself forever.

Your parents should have taught you that lying was bad � why is it all of a sudden OK now that you are an �Elite Secret Agent for an Elite Secret Society�?

If any post required me to ignore the poster, it was the former. Here's what I have to say:

It is the tradition of our order not to reply to slander and attack.

Since time immemorial, it has been the tradition of Freemasonry and Freemasons not to reply to slander and attack. It is felt that nothing can be gained from striving with the hateful. Although his philosophy is foreign to the order, we must recall the words of Nietzsche :

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster,
and if you gaze into the Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

If a man is to improve himself, he must take practical steps to do so, and for this reason I will not reply to this attack. Please do not take my silence for assent... it is merely an indication that the argument presented is self-evidently false and baseless.

Those with serious questions about Masonry or my experiences therein are invited to contact me by U2U or through a message in the "Secret Societies" forum.

P.S. I know I haven't been living up to these traditions very well in the past. But I have (I hoped) turned over a new leaf.

Wow I've never known anyone to make such a big noise about ignoring someone before - I guess if you just ignored them them no one would see that you were huh?

Mr.Necros . . .

As I recall, you collapsed completely on cross-examination.

After I requested specific details about what EXACTLY happened to you, you disappeared into the mists of cyberspace. I assume you had something far more important to do than to take the opportunuity to once and for all vindicate yourself (and help others) by giving us a play-by-play about what happened to you. Here was your chance to give a full expose on exactly how you were drugged, how the masons got you fired, how they pursued you OVER 3 COUNTRIES (which includes a separate CONTINENT), and how people with jobs, wives and children have the time, money, and energy to spend on you.

Either masons are unemployed retards, or you're mistaken.

BUT . . . . . you are very emphatic and very passionate about what you believe, and I doubt you're enjoying any financial gain from your website or your claims. I do respect your convictions, misplaced or not in this case, and I'm sure you are well-meaning in your crusade. So, like a previous member suggested: you might have a medical issue that needs addressing. No big deal, many people face issues like yours. You need a break from the web, and from all the stress you're under.

There's no point in being rude to you or giving you # about what you're saying. My advice: lay off for a while. Hey, you've got your website, your views are only too well known - it'll still be there. Just take it easy for a while and go on a vacation, take in a few good movies, whatever relaxes you.

I've stopped the practice of trying to prove A and B. All I can say is that your claims are falling on deaf ears. Why would you want to hang around people who pay no attention to you?

Personally, I'd rather be somewhere where my claims and ideas can have a significant, positive impact.

Something to consider.



[edit on 24-8-2004 by LTD602]

I could not possibly have said that better myself.

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Actually no Alex � the �rituals of the irregular Cerneau body of the Psuedo-Scottish Rite� are a complete fiction � they don�t exist, =much silly nonsense snipped-

That's good to know Necros. I guess I should throw my copies of the Cerneau 4th - 33rd Degree Rituals away...since they don't exist.

OH WAIT! I can't do that, after all I'm publishing a facsimile reprint of them for Masonic research. The book will be available next year TO ANYONE who cares to purchase them, by the way. So much for secrets, huh?

Excellent - then you won't mind publishing them here for us to look at, especially seeing that they aren't real and all that so your not going to be letting out all those secrets.....no didn't think so.

LTD what exactally is it you want as proof?
If you are a Mason you'll know a lot of what I've said is very possible even if you are only in a Blue Lodge.
If you aren't then one would have to wonder why you aren't so persistant in the other direction -> where is the proof that these people aren't as I say.
If you think people start anti-mason websites to generate money then you are sorely mistaken, mind you you probably own shares in Last Minute Dot Com.
In case you are incapable of comprehending what I have posted in this forum on multiple occasions, I have sort medical assistance, they said the drugs will wear off - they did, I've managed to stop the worthless animals from doping me up for close to a year now and my life is a lot more normal than it was 3 years ago.
This is clear - The Freemasons ARE a mind control cult orignating from 17th century France which was imported into Great Britain then spread via the old empire. Their morality (or lack of it) has not changed in 300 years and you can read about it in both Masonic and so called Anti-Masonic works.
You don't here about Anti-Lions or Anti-Red Crosses or any other charities, why is it the "poor old" Masons get such a lashing from so many places?

I think it will be of interest to members here that I was harrassed by MrNECROS via U2U, despite my short reply to his serious criminal accusations about Freemasonry, in which I said that he should inform the relevant authorities of these accusations & that I wished no more correspondence from him.

Nevertheless he persisted, & the final U2U was belligerent & included an X'd out obscenity, all of which would have incurred a "warn" had the content been posted instead of U2U'd.

Now he continues to make sweeping unsubstantiated statements here, to the effect that Freemasons are made to ingest diazepams. So provide the proof of that HERE, MrNECROS.

Ups

[edit on 29-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

This post was uncalled for and I have deleted it!


[edit on 29-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by MrNECROS
Excellent - then you won't mind publishing them here for us to look at, especially seeing that they aren't real and all that so your not going to be letting out all those secrets.....no didn't think so.

Hmmm? It would seem silly of me to take the time to post them here, when (like I said) they'll be available for ANYONE (not just Masons) when they get printed. Besides the originals I have are too fragile to scan so I'm having to re-typeset them and I don't have all the degrees re-typeset yet (in fact I'm only on the 8th Degree (and there are a total of 29) (4th Degree - 32nd Degree) to be published.

I would recommend, though a similar book already available FOR ALL (that means' "it's not that big a secret, huh?) called: The Bonseigneur Rituals, Volumes 1 & 2" Edited by Gerry L. Prinsen & "Cayers Maconniques: Rituals of the Lodge of Perfection" Edited by Gerry L Prinsen. Both are available from Kessinger Publishing of Kila MT as well as Albert Pike's first revision of the Scottish Rite Rituals (called "Magnum Opus") and several other good resources. You see, we Masons LIKE to study our rituals. Some things aren't really as secret as some people (and trolls) make them out to be.

I went overboard with this post, so I retracted my comments. They were inappropriate.

Mr. Necros has every right to his opinion, and I won't attempt to deprive him of his right. I'm sure that in some circles, his opinion is valid. As Alex Kennedy said eariler, the zeitgeist encompasses all manner of discourse and opinions.

In any case, the Masons will very soon have yet another member. That is as certain as the breath I draw.

[edit on 29-8-2004 by LTD602]

The masons aren�t all powerful or all knowing *LOL* no *ROFL* no *ROFLMAOPAO*
They are pawns no wait peasants in a bigger game, they are one step above slaves, which in it self seems good but it is not, because they help keep the slaves in check.

You don�t know what goes on in the illuminated part of free masonry and nothing you say or do can prove this, why because you wouldn�t be here if you were, you could be here to make noise and spread disinformation, but I don�t believe it to be the case, I think after reading many of your own posts that you believe what you write to be true.

But you want us to take you serious when you write things like �freemasons are good people� �freemasons is just a group that comes together to drink beer and talk about god� but you don�t take us serious, so why should we return it?

Now if I didn�t believe what I write in here to be true, I would probably have left and your judgment on me just being here for the drama or that I was a troll wouldn�t stick up, I know you say it does but my definition of that word says something else *LOL* I love agreeing with my self.
So please stop saying that we say you control the world because you don�t and we know it!

The part about mind control is true, but again your are way off in what we say, brain washing is mind control and keeping you in what you believe to be the loop is a sort of a mind control.

BTW putting a person on ignore is only a victory to the person you ignore, if you cant handle to read what some writes how do expect us to believe you can handle a person in real life?

I also like the way you are defending some one you know absolutely nothing about, you think you do but you are way off, of all people you should know how deceptive someone can be. (The people you are defending are the illuminated masons)
Now I know some of you mighty all knowing masons have met Blah Blah in person or what ever but you don�t know them up close you are not a part of their secret little order in the order.

So this is more ignorance and intolerance, spread by mine none stopping all spewing s.h.i.t. machine!

Hail ignorance embrace stupidity;

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

[edit on 29-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]