Obama Calls For Mandatory Government Service

Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by vor78

 

Even if he wanted to make it mandatory, you and I both know people would not allow that to happen. It would be voluntary just as it is right now. He is hoping to expand it to allow more students to be able to do it. They are turning people away because the programs lack the funding.

Show me some documentation where students are clamoring to do community service.. I think you're hallucinating. I can ask any teenager on the street would they like to do community service, and they'd think I was a nut for asking. Ask your own children if you have any, how they like the idea of being forced to work free of charge..

As for the American people not allowing mandatory service to happen, that's nonsense. We've allowed just about every civil right we have to be violated by the Homeland Security and Patriot Acts. Tell me it isn't so..

reply to post by LLoyd45


Please see my post on the bottom of page 3.

There's more to this than you right-leaning source.

Do you have a link that works, by the way? Edit: Looks like their site is down.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That's the problem with making up stories based on a bullet with NO context. People are so stupid sometimes, it makes my heart hurt.

You're right BH, it is amazing how stupid and nearsighted some people can be..

The source in the first post (which I cannot get to work) is from the Constitutional Right, who has a vested interest in making Obama look scary. Congratulations to those who didn't think to look further.

You're opinion, nothing more BH..

They have a serious agenda and have totally reworked the program in Obama's plan.

Why is it no one can understand Barack Obama? Does he need remedial English lessons or something to become an effective speaker?

Yes, if the students want the $4000 credit, they are REQUIRED to perform 100 hours service. However, it is not MANDATORY to do the service...

From the speech of that bullet's origin:

Source

Create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit to ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for Americans willing to complete 100 hours of public service a year.

And naturally he means to tie it into financial aid and work study programs at colleges. Am I right. No choice there.. if you're poor and want to go to college, you'll work where and when they tell you to.

Look a little deeper before you run and scream "socialist"!!!

like an insane person. :shk:

Open your eyes BH, and put down the Kool aid please.

[edit on 7/12/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by Hal9000


I'm not as certain in this day and age. There are an awful lot of things that have become politically acceptable that leave me shaking my head in disbelief.

That said, in a link a few posts up, Obama's position is clarified. I now agree, it is voluntary. Still, I maintain that in the manner it was worded in that earlier passage, it can very easily be interpreted as required not just for the tax credit, but required, period. They need to restructure that passage to reflect the true intent.

reply to post by Hal9000


I'm not as certain in this day and age. There are an awful lot of things that have become politically acceptable that leave me shaking my head in disbelief.

That said, in a link a few posts up, Obama's position is clarified. I now agree, it is voluntary. Still, I maintain that in the manner it was worded in that earlier passage, it can very easily be interpreted as required not just for the tax credit, but required, period. They need to restructure that passage to reflect the true intent.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Do you have a link that works, by the way? Edit: Looks like their site is down.

The link works fine BH, I just tried it..

reply to post by grover


So I guess instead of going to school I'd be forced to work for the government against my will? That's really nice. Thanks grover. Thanks, Uncle Sam! Some rite of passage I get!


reply to Andrew E. Wiggin


Andrew, equating this to employment is misleading at best. Look at how it's working.

You pay taxes into a fund, against your will (which is why it's a tax). Everyone in college gets $4,000. But to get it, they have to do 100 hours of unpaid labor.

So in reality, they're taking money from you and making you beg to get it back. And is community service still service if the government pays you to do it? Didn't think so. This is just a veiled way to make people serve the government.

Obama's starting to scare me a little now (more than a little). If you read into a certain things, they have serious global-socialist undertones. Nothing I'd go nuts about alone, but the things he says and supports, all put together... You have to wonder.

And requiring it to graduate from high school and middle school? That's not even the role of the federal government; the state and district control the curriculum. But even if it was, you'd just create service mongers, like we have today for certain programs that require it (certain religious and honor programs). It completely fails at motivating anyone to continue doing service - it just teaches them that they have to get the requirement out of the way doing the least work possible. I'm all for volunteering, but give me a break. Mandatory service is not service.

I'm on the fence about institutions requiring service to graduate on their own, but making this a federal mandate, in any way, veiled or otherwise, is a joke.

HOPE UNITY CHANGE

This single-syllabic, idiot-attention-grabbing "feelgood" mantra-slogan. (Recall George Orwell's phrase, "the streamlined men who think in slogans and talk in bullets." Just another slogan for the dimwitted masses.)

Why is it I think of Ron Paul as the guy who best embodies this?
For all you Obama backers, it cracks me up to no end that you guys and gals CONTINUALLY have to defend this guy's behavior, like his recent vote on FISA.

If he did the right thing, there would be nothing to defend. Simple truth.

You want change, but you're voting for the same old s*** just because it's in a shiny new wrapper. You're being blindsided by the marketing, the glitz, the glamour.

Listen everybody. Playing defense in football in high school, a coach told me to watch the belt buckle of the guy you're trying to tackle. You watch his hands or his head, he'll give ya a head fake, you'll bite on that, and he'll run right past you, leaving you in the dust with nothing but a missed tackle and a feeling of embarrassment. To close the analogy, ya gotta stop listening to these guys' feelgood rhetoric, and watch the belt buckle.

What's the belt buckle? Check out their voting record. Does their execution match their words? If it doesn't, you're the one eating the head fake.

Write in Ron Paul. That is, if the elections aren't cancelled due to martial law.
For the wave of people who are about to say, "Hey moron, Paul's done, so shut the f*** up," I have 2 messages for you:

1) YOU'RE the reason he's done. You're still too busy eating up headfakes, soundbites, lies, and slogans of the two mainstream flipflop candidates. Go check into Paul's voting record on things like the PATRIOT Act, and Iraq War funding. Does it gel with what you believe or not? Now try that with Obama or McCain - and good luck.

2) Why not write him in? What are you, still in grade school? You can only think between the 2 choices you're presented? Can't think independently and choose or AT THE LEAST CONSIDER something outside the 2 boxes on the ballot? I remember in grade school, a teacher told us how in some countries a dictator would basically put, "Do you want me for president?" and your so-called "voting options" were yes or no. Not much of a choice huh?

Well IMHO, it seems to me that ONLY considering the 2 mainstream candidates placed in front of you is really not too far removed from that lunacy.

Wake up or we're f***ed.
So wake the f**k up.
It is your eating up of slogan, feelgood mantras, and bulls**t that is f***ing us over.

Originally posted by LLoyd45

Originally posted by Pellevoisin
The Federal Government of the USA is already the single largest employer in the USA.

Can't anyone see that such a situation is insane?

How does Obama derive "mandatory service" from any part of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights?

Many countries require mandatory service, but hopefully we won't be joining them anytime soon! It sounds like he wants to put the whole country on a gigantic Welfare to Work program.

It sounds like it to the person that infers their information from an article that infered its infermation.
2nd generation inductive logic based on the word change

www.abovetopsecret.com...&addstar=1&on=4613055#pid4613055

See above thread -

Perhaps Obama is getting his ducks in a row to implement Rockefeller's NWO 'Global Kids".

Considering all the time kids spend at school .. then on sports ... then on homework ... and now with state sponsored slave labor ....

It's just wrestling the kids away from the parents - NAZI style.

Rockefeller NWO "GLOBAL KIDS" ... yep.
Considering Obama's CFR/Bilderberger connections.... Could be.

I got an idea!

Let's delay this election for 2 years!

McCain is a Global Warming, conservative bashing nut, and Obama is......Obama. Let Bush take an extra 2 years...he's not doing that bad and has an approval rating almost 4 times higher than Congress!

During that time both parties would have a chance to get better candidates!

I'm joking of course!

But at this point I have no one to vote for. But my disdain for Obama is making me have to choose the lesser of two evils, and I never had that happen before and it is very discouraging.

Isn't that the truth. McCain is bad but Obama is worse.

Either the Liberal or the Marxist.

reply to post by LLoyd45


Sound like communist country,..I know how this work,..next will be uniforms,..
try to make everybody equal ,Grey citizens..I born behind iron curtain...so I know

Granted, I think it would actually be GOOD for a lot of kids. However...we're a nation built upon the principle of freedom. Forced servitude to the government is not freedom.

If you mean service to one's fellow citizen would be good, that could very well be so. But service to special interest groups, government profiteers, etc.? No, not in the slightest!

Yaaaaay! The Obama Youth! Maybe they'll get a nifty ring to wear too! I thought someone tried this before?

When I first heard this I though he wanted military service but I guess I heard wrong. I think the idea of 2 yrs of military service mandatory has pros and cons. Pro would be we would never be completely surprised as most of the populace would know how protect the homefront. People that never tried the military might actually find out that its not a bad job. The only problem is there is so many people that couldn't meet the physical requirments that they might as well as stick with the recruiting. Then there is the people that want something for nothing, in that thye join only for college or whatnot and not expecting to do their duties when it comes time to do them. But its just an opinion, and you're welcome to your own. As for the community service, we already have that its called prisoners. They get paid about 1 or so an hour to pick up trash, mow state highways property, and recently fight forest fires. The forest fire job teaches them a skill and some of them get shortened sentances for doing it, as well as possible jobs on the outside when they get out.


-Aza

Originally posted by LLoyd45
Show me some documentation where students are clamoring to do community service.. I think you're hallucinating. I can ask any teenager on the street would they like to do community service, and they'd think I was a nut for asking.

There is always a surge in volunteers after each disaster like 9/11 and Katrina. As it turns out, after 9/11, guess who else had a call to serve and tried to expand Americorps due to the high increase in people that wanted to volunteer?

Mr. Bush's call to service is the latest, but not the only, response by federal leaders to try to convert into real volunteer action what many believe is a new desire by Americans to help their country since the September 11 terrorist attacks. Sen. Evan Bayh, an Indiana Democrat, and Sen. John McCain, an Arizona Republican, have proposed legislation that would, among other things, expand the annual number of participants in AmeriCorps from 50,000 to 250,000 by the end of the decade.

An Appeal for Action: Bush asks Americans to make a major volunteer commitment

In the same article, they show how they had to turn other volunteer organizations away due to lack of funding.

Mr. Kowalczyk said he believes that charities will be quick to put any new volunteers to work if his organization and others are able to recruit them. "The interest by charities for more resources is significant," he said. "Without significant outreach because of funding limitations, over the last several years we have turned down between 10 to 25 percent" of the requests from charities interested in working with the agency's service members.

Unfortunately, in 2003 there were severe cutbacks. Here is an article from your favorite news source.

For next year, the president requested an increase of more than $150 million for AmeriCorps -- which was created by former President Clinton. That would allow for an expansion of the program to cover the enrollment of some 75,000 volunteers, and boost overall funding to $554 million.

It is not clear whether that funding will become a reality, though -- especially given that the GOP-led Congress voted to cap AmeriCorps enrollment at 50,000 volunteers this year.

AmeriCorps Cuts Funding For Volunteers

I can't find any recent numbers, because I think the way it works is whole organization apply to Americorps and not individuals. I guess we just have to rely on Obama's website, unless you can find any evidence that that information is wrong.

I'm going to let these men speak for me, as they put it more eloquently than I can.

"The ultimate measure of a man or woman is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. The true neighbor will risk his position, his prestige, and even his life for the welfare of others. In dangerous valleys and hazardous pathways, he will lift some bruised and beaten brother or sister to a higher and more noble life."

Martin Luther King

"Now the trumpet summons us again--not as a call to bear arms, though arms we need--not as a call to battle, though embattled we are-- but a call to bear the burden of a long twilight struggle, year in and year out, "rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation"--a struggle against the common enemies of man: tyranny, poverty, disease and war itself.

Can we forge against these enemies a grand and global alliance, North and South, East and West, that can assure a more fruitful life for all mankind? Will you join in that historic effort?

In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger. I do not shrink from this responsibility--I welcome it. I do not believe that any of us would exchange places with any other people or any other generation. The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it--and the glow from that fire can truly light the world.

And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country.

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us here the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own."

President John F. Kennedy

Call it socialism if you wish. but I believe we do all have an obligation to each other that goes beyond simply paying our taxes.

I do not support Obama or McCain for that matter, but I fail to see the problem here. We have a duty to support our fellow man as human beings. Yes there might be an alternate directive like having us do the governments work, but to have high school and college students be required to help the community and such should be encouraged if not mandantory, especially if they are on a full ride scholarship or mommy and daddy paid for it.

I'll wait and see what transpires, but so far it sounds fine with me.

I thought that posting theories on ATS is working for government. Afterall some of our theories just might be right, and actually benefit this country

[edit on 12-7-2008 by LordChase]