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I'm not a neocon Andrew, but maybe you're a socialist if you believe in forcing people to work for the government.
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Another common neo-con tactic: Change the subject when you're wrong.
Im not allowing it to get changed, so please don't derail your own thread, llyod.
Barack Obama, never, one time, in that entire article, says anything remotely close to "required service"
So when I'm President, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year. This means that by the time you graduate college, you'll have done 17 weeks of service.
We'll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities. At the community level, we'll develop public-private partnerships so students can serve more outside the classroom.
For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000. To receive this credit, we'll require 100 hours of public service. You invest in America, and America invests in you - that's how we're going to make sure that college is affordable for every single American, while preparing our nation to compete in the 21st century.
Do you have comprehension problems Andrew?
So why post an article, and leave out the important parts, to make it look like he did say it?
That's your opinion. Show me where it's misleading or inaccurate.
I believe that kind of goes against the T&C a little bit where:
I omitted nothing. You can't quote a whole article Andrew, that's why a link was provided to the source. Try clicking on them once in a while before you whine.
Omitting certain paragraphs, and titling it with the title you did, pretty much goes against this #1 rule in Simon Gray's "law of posting"
[edit on 7/12/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
If school funding is contingent upon them making you participate in a Servive program, then the school will see that you participate or you will not graduate.
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by LLoyd45
You did omit.
Nothing in there is making anything "mandatory"
"to recieve this, you have to do this"
there's nothing mandatory about that.
Implementing "service opportutnies" ina public school does not make it MANDATORY that the students in that school have to participate
When you were in school, did you participate in football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, track, etc?
If so. Its a implemented OPPORTUNITY for the students to participate in
Its not mandatory
You really, really, should give up on this one Llyod. Obama is not making anything mandatory, and you know it.
Expand Corporation for National and Community Service: Obama will expand AmeriCorps from 75,000 slots today to 250,000 and he will focus this expansion on addressing the great challenges facing the nation.
Insufficient Federal Support for Service: While more than 500,000 people have served in AmeriCorps, the program turns away tens of thousands of applicants a year because of limited funding.
www.barackobama.com...
Sorry if you disapprove of the title Andrew, but I didn't write the article. You are required to use the actual heading from the source by posting rules. That was the ACTUAL title... Sorry if you don't like it.
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Furthermore, there's nothing opinionated about your violation of the T&C
You post "obama makes it mandatory!!!"
And the very article you give us to read says "obama makes it a choice with more incentives"
Thats posting a thread with a title and "supporting" paragraph that is completely misleading and inaccurate.
Its not a matter of opinion, its a matter of fact
[edit on 7/12/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
Originally posted by Misfit
I see the OP source as saying ALL of this is mandetory via Obama.
I do NOT see Obama saying ANY of this is mandetory.
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
If John McCain had suggested the very same thing, you'd praise him for it.
The double-standards you all wear on your sleeve so proudly makes me laugh..
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
that neocons suffer from selective reading.
Originally posted by vor78
Is the word require that difficult to comprehend?
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
I believe that kind of goes against the T&C
Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Please refer to the "basketball, baseball" statement again in my previous post
he is saying that federal monies are contingent upon participation in the program, fact
that the schools have to implement these programs to PROVIDE OPPORTUNTIES for the kids to PARTICIPATE
the words opportunities and participate derive from "choice"
and "choice" has nothing to do with force, mandatory, etc.
He's not offering them basketball camps or computer classes Andrew, he's going to have them picking up trash and other unpleasant tasks no one else wishes to do.
He is demanding that kids be given the choice to participate in their local schools if they want to.
He is not demanding mandatory service
Originally posted by LLoyd45
He's not offering them basketball camps or computer classes Andrew, he's going to have them picking up trash and other unpleasant tasks no one else wishes to do.
How many teenagers do you think will be fighting for an opportunity to do this type of service? Zip,nada, zilch.. All you'll do is encourage dropping out if they're forced to by the schools as a condition of graduating.
Also the tax credit bit is ridiculous for college kids. Hardly any of them will earn enough to benefit from it. They'll be working for zip.. Puh leese..
Originally posted by LLoyd45
...but maybe you're a socialist if you believe in forcing people to work for the government
Socialism, in it's traditional and true definition, means "the workers democratic ownership and/or control of the means of production". Such a definition implies that rather than a government bureaucracy for managing such means, there is a focus on highly democratic organisation, education and awareness, and every individual is encouraged to become an active, rather than passive participant in that which effect their lives. Only the workers themselves bear the knowledge of what their own freedom and liberty means, and only they know what is best for themselves, ultimately. Advocates of the state, be they on the left, or the right, have repeatedly defined the meaning of "socialism" to mean arbitrary rule by a set of "leaders", or a political con-game in which socialism is no more than capitalism with a few token adjustments for bearability.
social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members.
Source
Create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit to ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for Americans willing to complete 100 hours of public service a year.
...
Just as we teach math and writing, arts and athletics, we need to teach young Americans to take citizenship seriously. Study after study shows that students who serve do better in school, are more likely to go to college, and more likely to maintain that service as adults. So when I'm President, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year. This means that by the time you graduate college, you'll have done 17 weeks of service.
...
For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000 to make tuition affordable. To receive this credit, we'll require 100 hours of public service. And we'll amend the Federal Work-Study program, so that nearly $250 million will help more than 200,000 college students work in part-time public service jobs each year.