Confirmed: SS-21 Scarab launchers in S. Ossetia!

Confirmed: SS-21 Scarab launchers in S. Ossetia!

www.businesswire.com

In terms of how we've responded to this, the President was informed immediately on Friday, when we received news of the first two SS-21 Russian missile launchers into Georgian territory. He immediately -- this was at the Great Hall -- he immediately met with President Putin. They had a discussion. The President then engaged with his national security staff continuously over the last two days. He has spoken with -- again with Putin that evening. He then talked with President Medvedev yesterday evening, as well as President Saakashvili. Secretary Rice has spoken repeatedly with President Saakashvili, as well as with her Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Lavrov, and many European leaders.

(visit the link for the full news article)



Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
Russia Warns Baltics, Poland To Pay For Georgia Stance

This is from a briefing at Businesswire. I've researched the source and it's a Berkshire Hathaway company, a "diversified holding company." I've been trying to shoot holes in it but I cannot. As far as I can tell it's legit!
Briefing
This is a confirmation of a submission to the russia warns baltics thread.

The SS-21 Scarab (no word on which variant) has a range of up to 185km and can carry chemical, 100kt nuclear, EMP, or fragmentation filling warhead. Wiki states Russia has 140 of these launchers, Georgia has 0.SS-21 Scarab capabilities

*disclaimer* All nuclear-armed SS-21s have been deemed to be illegal by the 1987 INF Treaty, so this unknown. It does, however, but who really knows if they complied or not.

www.businesswire.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

In terms of how we've responded to this, the President was informed immediately on Friday, when we received news of the first two SS-21 Russian missile launchers into Georgian territory. He immediately -- this was at the Great Hall -- he immediately met with President Putin. They had a discussion. The President then engaged with his national security staff continuously over the last two days. He has spoken with -- again with Putin that evening. He then talked with President Medvedev yesterday evening, as well as President Saakashvili. Secretary Rice has spoken repeatedly with President Saakashvili, as well as with her Russian counterpart, Foreign Minister Lavrov, and many European leaders.

From what I can tell, the SS 21 can launch either conventional, nuclear, or a biological payload. They were apparently used during the Chechen war.

I don't think they'd be loading them with nuclear warheads.

en.wikipedia.org...

Good find though, the media seems to have missed this detail.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by mattguy404]

Credit given to Tapped In for finding the video.

Democracy Now 1 of 2

Democracy Now 2 of 2

I didn't see where they had threatened it, but I was multitasking at the time and could have missed it. That's the title of the video.

Uh. Well. Hell.

Does this mean that they actually DID threaten a nuclear response if anyone intervened? I mean, thats pretty big, isn't it?

And this is a reputable source?

If so, is this a sign that Russia is planning to expand beyond Georgia? 185km range seems a bit much o-o

reply to post by D.E.M.


Launch a nuke from one of these, and you'd probably go up in a nuclear fireball yourself, or at least any of your fellow troops in the area - the range is about 120Km.

I don't think any reputable source is suggesting nuclear weapons would feature in this conflict.

Originally posted by mattguy404
reply to post by D.E.M.

 

Launch a nuke from one of these, and you'd probably go up in a nuclear fireball yourself, or at least any of your fellow troops in the area - the range is about 120Km.

I don't think any reputable source is suggesting nuclear weapons would feature in this conflict.

70km for a Scarab-A, 120 for a Scarab-B, 180+ for a Scarab-C. I looked. Unfortunately it doesn't say which variant is there.

Originally posted by D.E.M.
Uh. Well. Hell.

Does this mean that they actually DID threaten a nuclear response if anyone intervened? I mean, thats pretty big, isn't it?

And this is a reputable source?

If so, is this a sign that Russia is planning to expand beyond Georgia? 185km range seems a bit much o-o

The source is a real holding company that exists on the stock exchange.
I have not heard of them before but it is NOT a small company or a poor one.
They are into a little bit of everything it seems.

it appears these SS-21s may have already been used, but not with nukes, cluster bombs. there are photos i will report tomorrow. for more on this for now see [link removed]

www.abovetopsecret.com...
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[edit on 12-8-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

reply to post by netwarrior


The longest variant appears to be 120Km.. I could be wrong of course.

Either way, I wouldn't want to be within 70Km-120Km of a nuclear launch

Unless it's tactical

They just use these like we use cruise missiles.
They have crappy missiles.

To clarify, i was referencing a youtube news broadcast linked above that stated that Russia had threatened a nuclear response.

Myself, i would find chemical or conventional far more logical. Nobody wants to be that close to radioactive fire

oh grow up will you, you sound like a 15 year old kid who still shouts "USA, USA, USA!!!!"

Originally posted by D.E.M.
Uh. Well. Hell.

Does this mean that they actually DID threaten a nuclear response if anyone intervened? I mean, thats pretty big, isn't it?

Not exactly, the Russians looked at NATOs precision weapons as equal to tactical nukes in their eyes. Their doctrine is that if NATO uses precision guided weapons on them they will use tactical nukes. Say 100kt or so.
The two launchers are of that class. There is no 100% confirmed that the weapons have nukes on them.
But consider this the system is made for carrying three things.
A Chemical
B Biological
C Nuke
D Conventional

**Now starts the theory**
The have better artillery then this rocket there now.
They only brought two. that we know of
ANYTHING this thing can carry in one other then a conventional warhead means that the NATO will react to it militarily as a nuke.
To NATO there is no difference between any type of WMD.
All are responded to with nukes.
Lastly the Russians know NATO can see the launch from this system with the keyholes, and go ape # when they do it.
Oh and for the record a nuke that small would not reach out much beyond a mile or two. The bombs used in Japan were just under a megaton. Or 10 times the size this weapons system can deliver.


[edit on 11-8-2008 by Backwoods]

[edit on 11-8-2008 by Backwoods]

Originally posted by D.E.M.
To clarify, i was referencing a youtube news broadcast linked above that stated that Russia had threatened a nuclear response.

Myself, i would find chemical or conventional far more logical. Nobody wants to be that close to radioactive fire

Video #2 :90 sec to 1:10

Date on the original press release is dated yesterday. Honestly, I truly hope that these are either A: destroyed or B: loaded with conventional weapons. I felt that it was postworthy, considering the threat to use battlefield nukes if we use precision guided weaponry against their troops.

Since DC had this information as of yesterday, it explains alot about Bush not being more harsh with his response today. As someone with a speech impediment, I don't think he's stupid at all. I do *know* that he's surrounded himself with very very smart advisors.

That being said, it's gone beyond "who started it."

As for the reputability of the source, the release is from Businesswire, a Berkshire Hathaway company. You might know them as one of the people that control Geico and several other insurance companies. It is headed by none other than Warren Buffett himself.

Friend of mine at this point is stating that this reeks of CIA.

Starred and flagged. Good find NW, and well done researching the source. I doubt we'll hear a thing about this in the MSM, but I will be very interested to see if there are any more developments on this one.

This is an older system,if NATO was seriously threatened it could disable it electronically, IMO just posturing by Russia

Flagged & tagged!

There is one issue that I can not quite understand here:

The Abkhazians are allies with the Chechnyan rebel/terrorists that Moscow has been hunting with a vengence. Georgia was also charged by Moscow, of harboring Chechnyan rebels. So what is the loss or gain here? Anyone please?

The next wait-n-see is: Will Moscow press its military forces all the way to the southern border of Georgia, effectively dividing the country. Which half might they keep under boot? Perhaps the western half since it is located nearest Abkhazia, & routing the Georgians from the long held gorge?

This whole scenario is not looking good. Especially now that Israel & Iran may be in the cake too. Have the Russians smelled something a bit south? Say targets in Iran?

Originally posted by DREAMING MAN
This whole scenario is not looking good. Especially now that Israel & Iran may be in the cake too. Have the Russians smelled something a bit south? Say targets in Iran?

The wild, speculative part of me thinks Russia might be securing energy supplies from the Caspian Sea in the event of a strike on Iran - Iran said it would close the Hormuz strait.

There's an estimated $12 trillion of oil in the Caspian Sea. If Russia came to control that in light of the Hormuz being closed off, well, we can speculate until we're blue in the face.