Loretta Fuddy Death - Obama Birth Certificate. - New evidence

reply to post by butterdezillion


"I would feel more at home in a country that has due process and the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

Who's stopping you. Send a petition a day. Send two. The Constitution gives you that right but understand the Constitution doesn't require the government to answer you.

"Nothing in the First Amendment or in this Court's case law interpreting it suggests that the rights to speak, associate, and petition require government policymakers to listen or respond to communications of members of the public on public issues." Minn. Bd. Commun. for Colleges v. Knight - 465 U.S. 271 (1984)

BTW, the good old days that you dream of never really existed. This from the government archives on the "gag rule" of 1836.

"In May of 1836 the House passed a resolution that automatically "tabled," or postponed action on all petitions relating to slavery without hearing them. Stricter versions of this gag rule passed in succeeding Congresses."

"A place where it DOESN'T take more legal documentation to walk beans than it takes to hold the nuclear football."

So far President Obama is the only President to produce any documentation. And his is downright perfect compared to others.

- President Reagan's birth certificate was signed by the attending physician and state registrar 31 years after the vital event took place. There is a picture of President Reagan in Ballyporeen, Ireland standing under a sign that reads "Welcome Home to Ballyporeen, Mr. President"

- President Nixon's birth certificate says it is based on oral evidence and was produced under court order.

- President Johnson's lists his name as "un-named Johnson", his certificate was amended in the 1960s by a family friends affidavit.

- President Eisenhower's was signed by his brother who would have been four years old at the time of the President's birth.

The fact that you don't understand the court system, doesn't mean that it is not working. It still defends both the rights of the accuser and the accused. It should tell you something about the birther evidence when Judge Malihi in George, Judge Reid in Indiana and the District Attorney for Maricopa County in Arizona all say that the evidence is not convincing.

butterdezillion
Obama has never submitted any legal documentation that was subject to the Federal Rules of Evidence and to cross-examination, because

he never had to - where exactly do you think he had to?

not one stinkin' judge has acknowledged the legal right of every US citizen to have legal proof that the person who can send our children to war is qualified for the position.

Wrong again - remember how birthers have lost over 200 court cases as they have no evidence - jut made up silly stories! Obama has shown more evidence that he is a natural born US citizen than all previous Presidents put together!

no judge has granted legal "standing". They all say it's none of our business.

You really have no clue at all, do you! eg. Where exactly in the court case in Georgia, under Judge Malihi did the Judge not grant legal standing?

That's what the judges have all said.

Care to show us exactly where in the 200 court cases that was said?

Because we're helpless, pathetic little nobodies

Birthers are, as they refuse to accept the reality that Obama is a natural born US citizen and was twice legally elected as President!

butterdezillion
No document specifically saying Obama's legal birth facts, with a raised seal, has ever been submitted in a court where Federal Rules of Evidence were applied and cross-examination allowed.

Funny how the exact same thing applies to every single previous President - but somehow according to you they never had to show that evidence, only Obama has to. Why is that?

reply to post by butterdezillion


Why is it that you insist that President Obama's documents must meet the Federal Rules of Evidence standard but you don't hold birth evidence to the same standard? Two judges and a district attorney have told birthers their evidence is meaningless but you continue on as if they don't matter, as if you understand the law better then they do.

You seem to long for a country where people can make baseless accusations without even a hint of legally admissible evidence and the accused has to defend themselves. That home you long for is in the old Soviet Union or Nazi Germany than here in the U.S.

reply to post by CEHughes


Lets not forget for one moment that The SoS's of two seperate states (Kansas and Arizona) also requested and received certified (stamped, sealed, offical letterhead etc) letters of confirmation from Hawai'i explicitly stating and confirming the details of the birth certificate records as well as ALL the content of the online displayed BC.

Said documents meet ALL the FRE requirements, were reviewed and accepted by the two SoS's and as such have full legal and Constitutional probity.

Then we have the fact there are zero recorded instances of birth certificate fraud in Hawai'i since it became a state unlike CA, TX, PR etc.

On top of that we have newspaper announcements of the birth of Obama....FOUND BY BIRTHERS..... FOIA document requests of Obama's mother and father where immigration officials identify Obama as the child of Stanley Ann and BHO and born in HAwai'i...FOUND BY BIRTHERS etc etc.

So on the one hand we have 221 legal cases, over 900 judges in review and ZERO birther victories versus......a rag tag platoon of deluded bigots who simply can't accept that a black Democrat won the presidency.

Probably the best part is if you get 3 birthers together in the same spot you get more than 3 diferent "theories".

Poor old Nellie, too crazy for Free Republic, got out just before the zot

Very interesting pics. Wonder if it's real. After reading your post I can see how you would think that it was a staged death. In another thread it's believed that she was going to be revealing something in March 2014. It's odd how everyone is so calm, and very odd how the airplane seams to just glide towards the water. No one was reported injured from impact onto water. What I found weird was the guy (who was assisting Loretta Fuddy) stated that he remembered she just "let go" his hand, there was no further elaboration on this. When he stated this, what I pictured in my mind was: airplane crash, people screaming and crying, not a lot of time to put on live vests (on a normal inter-island airplane the life vest is not as easily accessible as shown in the video, whenever I looked for it on the plane I could not find it in the pocket in front of me or under my seat), everyone getting out as soon as possible, some lucky ones have a vest but most do not, loretta fuddys assistant is helping her stay afloat, waves are choppy, he can no longer hold her grip, she lets go of his hand and disappears under. The video shows that is not what happened. The assistant needs to further his explanation on what happened that day and not just a simple "let go". That definitely looks like a scuba diver. Politicians here in Hawaii tend to be very shady, I wouldn't put it past them if this was staged.

reply to post by ckhk3


So,

Just to make sure the general populace understands.

You are accepting Nellies incredibly convoluted, nay insane theory that Fuddy was killed by some ninja stealth scuba diver after a plane crash in open water?

First, before going down the many, many. many reasons why this simply is not physically possible care to explain WHY..?

Yes.....WHY?

If someone is going to do something as serious as kill someone there has to be a reason for it, you know the Motive part of Method, Motive and Opportunity.

First, there is no evidence, credible or otherwise,that Diretor Fuddy was going to be "revealing" anything, it is all simply an artifact of the fervid and fevered imaginations of the Birthers. She was not under indictment, there is no actual "investigation", there are no OMG/WTF moments, there is also nothing to "reveal".

So, FAIL the first, why do anything if there is no actions or activities to drive anything

Second, if someone was to be killed off, made to disappear what happens in the real world is someone calls you, meets you at your office, picks you up in a car, all that sort of stuff. No muss, no fuss, no drama, NO WITNESSES

FAIL the second, why plan some incredibly insane and physically improbable manoeuvre with witnesses, TV, police, Coast Guard, coroners office, priests etc when all you need is two people with official ID and a car knocking on your homes door just before you go to work

Third, a diver, really, in the middle of a well know choppy and fast moving current channel with no support boat, placed EXACTLY where a plane with no power is making an emergency landing on water that somehow no one else sees. Moreover according to Nellies pictures wearing a bright yellow bouancy vest....No seekrit ninja badge for YOU!!

FAIL the third. no way to place a diver, no way to know exactly where the plane will come down, no way to plan the actions and invisible to boot, well except to Nellie

Fourth, WHY a diver, if the seekrit cabal has the power to run this James Bond villain'esque scenario? I mean eithere they are all powerful and stuff or they are all incompetent and stuff, can't have it both ways. Since in BitterDelusiuonals world "The Cabal" has somehow either peopled the entire plane with operatives or threatened/silenced all the passengers, pilot, Coast Guard, fire dept etc. Well, wouldn't it have been easier just to use one of the stelath operative passengers to kill Fuddy?

(Of course to do that we have have to use one of Butters favourite magical tools she talks of....The Heart Attack Dart gun)

So, FAIL the fourth

One could continue but leave the rest as a teaching and training lesson for the deluded and delusional

reply to post by ckhk3


There is no scuba diver.

Watch the entire video. You are misidentifying Director Fuddy's feet and legs as a scuba diver! LOL

ondemand.abcnews.com...

The "frogman" sequence begins at about 3:30. Slow it down and you can see that you are looking at her feet. First right then left going in and out of the water.

reply to post by bovril


No, I did not say that I accept his theory. I stated that the assistant needs to further his explanation on what happened that day regarding what happened with her. From the day of this accident I did not believe there was a conspiracy to her death, but found that the assistant didn't give enough info.

reply to post by CEHughes


You may be right, that could be her legs. But, whats the image at 3:37.
Once again, I'm not saying I accept this theory.

reply to post by ckhk3


The assistant has never spoken publically. The comment you reference was made by a priest who talked to the assistant. Wait for the official report to come out as it may have the interview of the assistant by the NTSB.

reply to post by ckhk3


I'm not sure what you are referring to in 3:37, I don't see anything but mostly the horizon.

reply to post by CEHughes


At www.butterdezillion.wordpress.com... I've got some of the important images from the youtubes where I posted still shots of what's in the ABC videos. Are you claiming that all of the things in those images are Fuddy's pants and shoes?

Fuddy's pants and shoes don't even make sense for the one image. But they sure as heck don't make sense for all the others. Why won't anybody address the others?

butterdezillion
Why won't anybody address the others?

Because there is nothing in them to address, just pictures of people and things in the water - no pictures of ninja divers with yellow on!

Why not post the pictures here instead of pushing your blog?

reply to post by ckhk3


This crash was suspicious from the very beginning because of the discrepancies in the stories and a bunch of "coincidences". Even before I looked closely at the ABC video there were way too many things that didn't add up, and then seeing these extra people and things in the water in the videos just reinforced what an objective analysis of the facts had already suggested anyway. And the images contain much more than just one "extra" person in the water. There is one image that people have tried to address, but so far I've posted images of FIVE extra people who were in the water that day. Those have mostly been ignored but it all needs to be seen, to understand what ABC was covering up.

I'm still working on getting all the documentation together regarding the discrepancies and reasons for suspicion - most of it is posted at Free Republic on various threads, and I just need to put it all in one place - but a basic summary of some of the factual issues that make this crash very suspicious can be seen at www.butterdezillion.wordpress.com... I've got a bunch of other evidence I'm incredibly busy with and can't take the time right now to figure out how to get the old posts deleted from the "Welcome" page so we can have a new start on discussing what's there now, so I'm not doing much with comments right now. Hopefully when some of the other issues I'm researching are resolved I'll be able to do more with my blog. But for the time being, if you'd like some facts without the sandbagging that's obvious here, check out the blog. You can think about what you read there without all the mudslinging and lies to clog things up.

There's also a 2-hour interview on Hagmann & Hagmann, at www.youtube.com... , in which the context is explained more. Loretta Fuddy's role in the crimes happening at the Hawaii Department of Health to cover for Obama is summarized in that, although there's much more, which can be seen in my "Putting it All Together" series on my blog. My portion begins at about 1:06 in the youtube video of Hagmann & Hagmann.

Those who prefer thinking to slogging through vindictiveness and lies can find information and quietness for thinking in those places.

Here, a person can't even make a factual statement without getting bogged down with all kinds of crap. For instance, Obama has never submitted legal documentation with a raised seal stating his birth facts, and subject to the Federal Rules of Evidence and cross-examination. That is a fact. Yet I could spend the rest of my life trying to show why all the side arguments posted here don't change that fact. And that is the purpose of the crap. There is a group of people who want to keep people like me from being able to accomplish anything. They typically use ad hominem attacks and some of them are committing federal, state, and international crimes against me and others as well - such as hacking my computer and stealing emails. You can probably tell which posters are of that variety.

If that's what you like, duke it out here. If you prefer thinking to noise, you might want to check out the other places. Or if you want to know more of the actual information about this issue you'll want to check out the rest of the story in these other places.

butterdezillion
but so far I've posted images of FIVE extra people who were in the water that day.

Just when you thought claims made by birthers could not get any sillier, along come a even sillier claim - so there were 5 ninja divers in the water that nobody there noticed....

there must have been hundreds of divers in the water waiting for the plane to crash, as a difference of a few degrees or a a time difference of seconds would have put the plane out of reach of only 1 group....

Those who prefer thinking to slogging through vindictiveness and lies

Those would be the claims made by birthers, who refuse to accept that Obama was legally elected to be President twice...

For instance, Obama has never submitted legal documentation with a raised seal stating his birth facts, and subject to the Federal Rules of Evidence and cross-examination.

That is because he has never had to.... exactly the same as no previous President had to...

some of them are committing federal, state, and international crimes against me and others as well - such as hacking my computer and stealing emails.

Funny, the TWLITHOTP, Orly Taitz also makes those claims, again with zero evidence.... she also claims Obama sabotaged her car.... paranoid much?

reply to post by butterdezillion


"Obama has never submitted legal documentation with a raised seal stating his birth facts, and subject to the Federal Rules of Evidence and cross-examination. That is a fact. "

You have yet to explain why he needs to present it. And please don't say because birthers believe the documents he has presented are forgeries. Anyone can make baseless accusation.

You keep talking about the Constitution, due process and the rule of law but then are willing to throw all three of them into the toilet and accuse someone of criminal activity all the while refusing to present evidence that meets the same legal standard that you demand of the President.

reply to post by CEHughes


Thanks. If you happen to see the official report and remember this thread, please post it here. AT 3:37 it is the same image that is being thought of as the scuba diver, the image is too far away from Fuddy to be her legs.

reply to post by butterdezillion


Thanks so much for the link. Is it known how long after the crash did she pass?

reply to post by ckhk3


Depends on which of the conflicting stories you believe.

If you believe DOH Administrator Mark Miller, she was on the USCG helicopter at 4:30 being given aid but was not able to be revived.

If you believe Rev. Kilillea (citing Yamamoto) she held onto Yamamoto's hand for a while, unable to relax, and then let go and was unresponsive (time of death could be about any time). But by the time Killilea saw her at the "care center" to give conditional last rites (after seeing her at the airport at a time we can't know because the USCG only ever claimed to lift 3 people from the water, and they lifted 3 people besides her. If she was lifted by the USCG then she was the TENTH person lifted from the water. In the CAD communications they never said when they had them all out of the water because they couldn't figure out which of the ones who had already swum to shore had actually been on the plane and which were extras; at one point the report to the primary information officer was that the MCFD had picked up 5, USCG had picked up 5, and one was unaccounted for... ) he said he had been told she might have been dead for 2 hours already. The "body" was transported by Maui Medivac and met there by Akaka and the 3 other men on his team who moved the body from the helicopter to the undertaker's vehicle after the family identified the victim; his car was cleared at 7:24 after a 20-minute ride back to the station, so they were done loading the body by 7:04 at the latest. The MCFD's helicopter had taken 25 minutes to fly to the crash; if Maui Medivac was comparable then the body had to have left Kalaupapa by 6:40. If it took 15 minutes for the body to be unloaded, the family to ID the body, and the body to be transferred to the undertaker's vehicle, that would move the departure from Kalaupapa to 6:25 at the latest. But Killilea said that Yamamoto was there when Killilea did his thing with Fuddy, and Yamamoto was seen at the Honolulu airport at 6:30, after the half-hour flight there. So Killilea had to have finished with Fuddy by 6. So if he was told she might have been dead for up to 2 hours by 6 then the earliest it was expected that she died was at 4pm. At 5:09 MCFD was saying there were 7 on shore and 2 unaccounted for, so Fuddy had not been picked from the water by then. So Killilea did "last rites" with Fuddy sometime between 5:09 and 6pm and at that point was told she had been dead for up to 2 hours. So she could have died from 3:09 (before the plane even took off) to 4:00



If you believe the official Maui County Fire Dept's incident report, then she (or a tenth person that wasn't supposed to even be there...) was in the USCG helicopter in critical condition at 5:19pm...

So you see, it's very tricky trying to know anything. We haven't seen an autopsy so we don't know what they say is the time of death... Unless there was a 10th person there that nobody in the official reports or media wanted us to know about, Fuddy was alive in the USCG helicopter at 5:19, not dead in the water at 4pm. Pretty extreme "discrepancy" there...