Plasma Ribbon Confirms Electric Sun

KrzYma
reply to post by dragonridr

 

please enlighten me!
what is energy ?

Energy is what causes work or the transfer from one system to another.Thats why you cant have negative energy like you think. Energy has to produce a result if not its potential energy.

poet1b

What we know about electricity is that it is a form of plasma, and the same is true of fusion, and essentially all forms we describe as energy.

The electric universe is also the plasma universe theory, which a more accurate description.

Gravity would then be another form of plasma, or my theory, the motion of bodies through space, dragging long plasma structures is what creates gravity.

Your wrong electricity is not a plasma in fact almost the exact opposite. A plasma is usually an ionized gas this makes it susceptible to EM fields but produces no charge. Electricity on the other hand produces EM fields and will always have a charge. There is no way for plasma to create gravity other than its mass like oh our sun. Our suns about 98 percent plasma.

dragonridr

KrzYma
reply to post by dragonridr

 

please enlighten me!
what is energy ?

Energy is what causes work or the transfer from one system to another.Thats why you cant have negative energy like you think. Energy has to produce a result if not its potential energy.

and who said energy is negative ??
because of the -1 ?
I said it's the scalar defining its direction, not it's amount
that is exactly why I say, if even there is no force acting / energy flowing, it does not mean there is no strength in the field / potential energy.

-1[e] +1[e] result 0[2e]

Mary Rose

poet1b
The electric universe is also the plasma universe theory, which a more accurate description.

In this video, Wal Thornhill says that plasma cosmology has been around for decades now and is recognized by the IEEE (Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers), but astronomers ignore it:

Youve been told this before Plasma is not ignored in fact its effects are accounted for in the standard model. Its effects are just not as great as gravity on the universe. As far as the video hes lying to you the reason they discovered the hydrogen flow is because they were looking for it. Astronomers have long theorized that larger galaxies could receive a constant influx of cold hydrogen by siphoning it off other less-massive companions. Gravity steals hydrogen from other galaxies near by see every galaxy has a halo around it of hydrogen.

dragonridr
As far as the video hes lying to you the reason they discovered the hydrogen flow is because they were looking for it.

Thornhill did not say anything about a discovery.

His quarrel is with the illogical use of the terminology "river" flowing through deep space with no equivalent of riverbanks/something to constrain it to justify the use of the term, coupled with the lack of explanation for magnetism being present.

Mary Rose

Blue Shift
Why is it so important to some people that the sketchy "electric universe" notion be proven correct?

Why are you questioning the motives of people posting alternative theories?

I don't believe the theory is sketchy at all.

And I think mainstream science should be considering the theory instead of continuing to put band aids on the gravitational model for the universe.

It had been considered back in the 80s when it was proposed it was contradicted by observations. Science isnt unwilling by any means to throw out a theory in exchange for a better one. But the key is it must explain everything the other theory does and than explain something the old theory cant. If for example tomorrow we find a particle that travels faster than light Einstines theory is out the window we know we were wrong. Electric universe theories explain very little about the observed universe and contradicts known information. For example if there is no gravity and everything is dependent on charges than why does an electric charge have no effect on gravity? We should easily be able to manipulate gravity i could go to my local hardware store and build a hovercraft with batteries and wires. However as experiments show us we cant use electricity to counter gravity thats the problem no one bothers to look at the big picture when they buy into this pseudo science.

Arbitrageur

ZakOlongapo
reply to post by ErosA433

 

the closer to the sun you go the colder it become.... it is not the theory, it is the fact...

For a simple analogy, get a big box of marbles, and a slingshot. Submerge the slingshot into the box of marbles, pull it back, and release it. It stirs up the marbles a little bit, but the marbles don't go flying off at high speed to hit a target because there are too many other marbles in the way.

Now take a single marble out of the box, and launch it with the slingshot. It's the same slingshot, the same force applied to the marble, but this time the marble zooms off at high speed.

This is analogous to high temperature, above the photosphere of the sun. There aren't any other marbles in the way to prevent it getting launched at high speed. The slingshot is analogous to the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around, they are just easier to move around when it gets thinner, which is like what Eros said but maybe with an analogy to try to help explain why this happens.

When you get down to the photosphere of the sun, of course the temperature is lower, which is like the slingshot buried in the box of marbles, because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

This effect is correlated with the gravitational field so it actually makes more sense than Dollard's "hollow sun" idea.

edit on 26-2-2014 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

so you are saying, the less dense the molecules are, the greater the temperature ??

UHH... interstellar space must be really hot than !

...because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

so more dense materials are less hot ?

KrzYma

Arbitrageur

ZakOlongapo
reply to post by ErosA433

 

the closer to the sun you go the colder it become.... it is not the theory, it is the fact...

For a simple analogy, get a big box of marbles, and a slingshot. Submerge the slingshot into the box of marbles, pull it back, and release it. It stirs up the marbles a little bit, but the marbles don't go flying off at high speed to hit a target because there are too many other marbles in the way.

Now take a single marble out of the box, and launch it with the slingshot. It's the same slingshot, the same force applied to the marble, but this time the marble zooms off at high speed.

This is analogous to high temperature, above the photosphere of the sun. There aren't any other marbles in the way to prevent it getting launched at high speed. The slingshot is analogous to the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around, they are just easier to move around when it gets thinner, which is like what Eros said but maybe with an analogy to try to help explain why this happens.

When you get down to the photosphere of the sun, of course the temperature is lower, which is like the slingshot buried in the box of marbles, because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

This effect is correlated with the gravitational field so it actually makes more sense than Dollard's "hollow sun" idea.

edit on 26-2-2014 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

so you are saying, the less dense the molecules are, the greater the temperature ??

UHH... interstellar space must be really hot than !

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

...because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

so more dense materials are less hot ?

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

No it doesnt have to do so much with the density as the ability of particles to move. Ill tryh to make this simple when ions are accelerated near the speed of light when exiting the photosphere they collide in the corona these collisions have an unbelievable force producing energy. meaning there speed is directly transferred into energy some of it being thermal.Gravity prevents this from occurring in the photosphere because the particles have a hard time building up speed. these same collisions occur in the sun just gravity prevents them from gaining velocity so they impact with much less force. Does that make sense?

dragonridr

KrzYma

Arbitrageur

ZakOlongapo
reply to post by ErosA433

 

the closer to the sun you go the colder it become.... it is not the theory, it is the fact...

For a simple analogy, get a big box of marbles, and a slingshot. Submerge the slingshot into the box of marbles, pull it back, and release it. It stirs up the marbles a little bit, but the marbles don't go flying off at high speed to hit a target because there are too many other marbles in the way.

Now take a single marble out of the box, and launch it with the slingshot. It's the same slingshot, the same force applied to the marble, but this time the marble zooms off at high speed.

This is analogous to high temperature, above the photosphere of the sun. There aren't any other marbles in the way to prevent it getting launched at high speed. The slingshot is analogous to the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around, they are just easier to move around when it gets thinner, which is like what Eros said but maybe with an analogy to try to help explain why this happens.

When you get down to the photosphere of the sun, of course the temperature is lower, which is like the slingshot buried in the box of marbles, because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

This effect is correlated with the gravitational field so it actually makes more sense than Dollard's "hollow sun" idea.

edit on 26-2-2014 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

so you are saying, the less dense the molecules are, the greater the temperature ??

UHH... interstellar space must be really hot than !

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

...because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

so more dense materials are less hot ?

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

No it doesnt have to do so much with the density as the ability of particles to move. Ill tryh to make this simple when ions are accelerated near the speed of light when exiting the photosphere they collide in the corona these collisions have an unbelievable force producing energy. meaning there speed is directly transferred into energy some of it being thermal.Gravity prevents this from occurring in the photosphere because the particles have a hard time building up speed. these same collisions occur in the sun just gravity prevents them from gaining velocity so they impact with much less force. Does that make sense?

I see your point, you mean there is a gravitational threshold where the energy of the particle reaches the escape velocity so it speeds up from the photosphere up to the corona and hits other particles up building the temperature up to a million degree?
what drives them to speed up after they have left the photosphere ?? what is pushing them if they don't slow down after every collision, well, they actually must, but they speed up again.... this gradient is still backwards with gravity.
and why the corona at certain distance ? why this boundary ?

here some graphics for you

sun's center : fusion ( 14 million K ) ---- down to 6000 K photosphere_______________ corona 1 million K
gravity : ___________________________escape velocity for particle (slow)_________biggest energy(fast)
____________________________________________________________ somewhere here )_______) to here
is a spot where the most energy is converted into heat.

particles leaving the photosphere are accelerating till they breach certain energy level and start to heat up, and the density falls with distance too. What accelerates those particles ? must be electric force,
or what ?

I hope you don't deny the fact that all coronal eruptions and discharges are electrical in nature, do you ?

KrzYma
UHH... interstellar space must be really hot than !

Interstellar space can be a million degrees and it has very low density. But the temperature can vary quite a bit. Here's a good source of information on temperature:

The Interstellar Medium: Gas

The last form of the ISM that we will consider makes the "warm" gas of the WIM seem frigid in comparison. Between the other forms of interstellar matter are pockets of gas at temperatures of over one million degrees.

Specifically around the sun, there are forces trying to accelerate particles and when the particles aren't stuck in a thick soup they can reach higher velocities. Did you read my thread explaining the hot corona and some recent research that revealed some things we couldn't see before?

KrzYma
what is pushing them if they don't slow down after every collision, well, they actually must, but they speed up again.... this gradient is still backwards with gravity.
and why the corona at certain distance ?

Apparently you didn't read my thread, which I gave you the link to in the other thread where you asked about this. Why not read it? I don't know what you mean by "certain distance", what distance? Temperatures stay elevated all the way out to the heliopause:

www.jpl.nasa.gov...

Blue is about 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit (6,000 Kelvin). Red indicates hotter temperatures of about 2 million degrees Fahrenheit (1 million Kelvin).

KrzYma

dragonridr

KrzYma

Arbitrageur

ZakOlongapo
reply to post by ErosA433

 

the closer to the sun you go the colder it become.... it is not the theory, it is the fact...

For a simple analogy, get a big box of marbles, and a slingshot. Submerge the slingshot into the box of marbles, pull it back, and release it. It stirs up the marbles a little bit, but the marbles don't go flying off at high speed to hit a target because there are too many other marbles in the way.

Now take a single marble out of the box, and launch it with the slingshot. It's the same slingshot, the same force applied to the marble, but this time the marble zooms off at high speed.

This is analogous to high temperature, above the photosphere of the sun. There aren't any other marbles in the way to prevent it getting launched at high speed. The slingshot is analogous to the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around, they are just easier to move around when it gets thinner, which is like what Eros said but maybe with an analogy to try to help explain why this happens.

When you get down to the photosphere of the sun, of course the temperature is lower, which is like the slingshot buried in the box of marbles, because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

This effect is correlated with the gravitational field so it actually makes more sense than Dollard's "hollow sun" idea.

edit on 26-2-2014 by Arbitrageur because: clarification

so you are saying, the less dense the molecules are, the greater the temperature ??

UHH... interstellar space must be really hot than !

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

...because the electromagnetic forces trying to move the plasma around can't move it as fast because of all the collisions.

so more dense materials are less hot ?

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

No it doesnt have to do so much with the density as the ability of particles to move. Ill tryh to make this simple when ions are accelerated near the speed of light when exiting the photosphere they collide in the corona these collisions have an unbelievable force producing energy. meaning there speed is directly transferred into energy some of it being thermal.Gravity prevents this from occurring in the photosphere because the particles have a hard time building up speed. these same collisions occur in the sun just gravity prevents them from gaining velocity so they impact with much less force. Does that make sense?

I see your point, you mean there is a gravitational threshold where the energy of the particle reaches the escape velocity so it speeds up from the photosphere up to the corona and hits other particles up building the temperature up to a million degree?
what drives them to speed up after they have left the photosphere ?? what is pushing them if they don't slow down after every collision, well, they actually must, but they speed up again.... this gradient is still backwards with gravity.
and why the corona at certain distance ? why this boundary ?

here some graphics for you

sun's center : fusion ( 14 million K ) ---- down to 6000 K photosphere_______________ corona 1 million K
gravity : ___________________________escape velocity for particle (slow)_________biggest energy(fast)
____________________________________________________________ somewhere here )_______) to here
is a spot where the most energy is converted into heat.

particles leaving the photosphere are accelerating till they breach certain energy level and start to heat up, and the density falls with distance too. What accelerates those particles ? must be electric force,
or what ?

I hope you don't deny the fact that all coronal eruptions and discharges are electrical in nature, do you ?

edit on 3-3-2014 by KrzYma because: (no reason given)

Ok two things cause the particles to accelerate one is heat when particles are heated they simply move faster. But thats not the whole story in order for a particle to escape the sun it has to reach 400 km/s thermal heat alone cant do this but the suns magnetic field also helps. Just like our supercolliders a magnetic field pushes the particle to higher speeds.So now to answer your question yes im saying coronal eruptions have nothing to do with electricity. This is caused by magnetic fields twisting together in the sun. Im beginning to understand why you buy into the electric universe, You havnt bothered to find out anything about the last 5 decades of science have you?

reply to post by dragonridr

magnetic field pushes the particle to higher speeds

WOW... I know magnetic fields change the direction of moving charged particles, but acceleration is new to me, are you sure about this ??

an the other hand, a change in a magnetic field strength causes a current to flow, and other wise.
How is this not electric ??

now, the acceleration of the charged particles is caused by the repelling force between same charged particles, plus weaker gravity force. Electric.

dragonridr
Im beginning to understand why you buy into the electric universe, You havnt bothered to find out anything about the last 5 decades of science have you?

It looks like his research consists of watching youtube videos of people claiming mainstream science is wrong about everything.

You gotta admit it's easier than reading scientific papers.

I even spoon fed him this link in the other thread and as far as I can tell he still hasn't read it, because he's still asking questions addressed by that article.

Electric Universe Theory, RIP: New Discovery of Why Sun's Corona is Hot

reply to post by dragonridr


No, plasma is not an ionized gas, or anything like a gas. This is well proven.

A lighting bolt is plasma, a arc flash is plasma, in a fluorescent tube is plasma.

All evidence points to electricity being a plasma.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


If you bothered to look into the last 100 years of plasma science, you would see how wrong you are.

As we continue to explore space we are finding plasma structures everywhere.

It is not very scientific at all to ignore this knowledge that we have gained.

reply to post by dragonridr


Plasma theory in relation to the cosmos has been around a lot longer than that, and as we learn more about space, the larger the influence of plasma looms.

www.plasmacosmology.net...

Birkeland was amongst the first to speculate that the Northern Lights were charged particles ejected from the Sun, captured by the Earth's magnetic field, and directed towards the polar atmosphere. To prove this theory, Birkeland performed his famous 'Terella' experiment, where he artificially created the aurora in the laboratory. His theories were initially laughed at, and it is only now in the space age that measurements from satellites are proving Birkeland correct.

Significantly, his approach to science was broad, comprising observation and laboratory experimentation in addition to mathematical modelling. He was not content with a merely theoretical approach, despite having trained as a mathematician.

He is probably Norway's greatest ever scientist, and many of his works are still used as reference materials. The electric currents that flow from space are named after him -- Birkeland currents. He is recognised for bringing Plasma and Electromagnetism into Cosmology, but while many of his ideas are widely accepted, his cosmological theories are less well known. He died aged 49 just when a working committee was in the process of nominating him for the Nobel Prize in Physics.

poet1b
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

If you bothered to look into the last 100 years of plasma science, you would see how wrong you are.

As we continue to explore space we are finding plasma structures everywhere.

Yes I already posted a link to the real electric universwe in this post, the one that doesn't contradict observation, like the electric sun model does.

poet1b
No, plasma is not an ionized gas, or anything like a gas. This is well proven.

A lighting bolt is plasma, a arc flash is plasma, in a fluorescent tube is plasma.

Where does a lightning bolt happen? In a gas called the atmosphere. What's inside a fluorescent tube? A gas. Yes it's very similar to a gas, it's a gas where the some electrons are no longer bound to the atoms so there the gas atoms are no longer electrically neutral, and because the particles are charged, they can conduct electricity.

en.wikipedia.org...

Plasma (physics), an ionized state of matter similar to a gas.

Do you realize how silly it sounds to say it's not an ionized gas or anything like a gas? It does have some properties different from gases due to the electric charge, so it's not identical, but nobody said it was.

poet1b
reply to post by dragonridr

 

No, plasma is not an ionized gas, or anything like a gas. This is well proven.

A lighting bolt is plasma, a arc flash is plasma, in a fluorescent tube is plasma.

All evidence points to electricity being a plasma.

An ionized gas is a plasma wow they teach this in high school science classes. You do realize there are 4 states of matter dont you? Ok lets talk basic science and will move on When gas is ionized it specifically means gas electrons have been charged enough to let them escape atoms or molecules we call this positive ionization. These ionized particles makes plasma an excellent conductor of electricity for example. Now lightening creates plasma its not caused by plasma. The air gets super heated causing the air to ionize. In other words then the air closes this gap made by the ionized particles and we get thunder. See this is why when it rains people smell ozone.

Now the universe is mostly made of ionized gas its everywhere plasma which is the most common state of matter in outer space, which only makes sense because if the stars and the space between almost everything in the universe is plasma, then that is indeed a lot of ionized gas. You think science ignores this trust me we know about plasma. You bought into lies by websites like thunderbolts. In order for a plasma to exist there must be ionized particles meaning free floating electrons we call this plasma density. Now what makes plasma interesting is it has two features one they respond to magnetic fields and two they are electrically conductive. Plasma's can be classified as either thermal or non thermal thermal would of course be our sun non thermal would be for example helium we use at Cern in the super collider. Electricity is not required to have a plasma however when electricity is introduced we get some strange effects. This lets a florescent bulb light up for example.

See you seem to be under the impression that science doesnt recognize there is electricity in the universe but hers a shocker for you the standard model predicts there would be.We see a great example with the norther and southern lights its a plasma generating ionized particles which interacts with are magnetosphere to produce those pretty lights. Try getting away from the pseudo science web sites and try reading a physics book.Ill say i know far more about plasma than you considering ive conducted several experiments with plasma in my lab using a tokamak. But please feel free to teach me about plasma physics im always willing to learn more.

there is no need to argue with Arbitrageur or dragonridr or even discuss anything with them.
They answer direct only those questions they want to, on other questions, they turn around arguing with irrelevant links trying to push the question back with no answer at all. Or they ignore a question deliberately.

I don't even know if they understand a simple relationship, where is a changing magnetic field there is current flowing, and where current is flowing, there is a magnetic field.

Ignoring Sun's electric and magnetic nature is just blindness.

KrzYma
. . . turn around arguing with irrelevant links trying to push the question back with no answer at all.

I have noticed that technique as well.

It takes up time and energy and sends people off-track.