Forbidden Science: The Occult Roots of the Space Program

reply to post by Aleister


Norman Klein is an author and L.A. historian whose work is very related to memory, imagination and alternate histories (check out his new project at imaginarytwentiethcentury.com...). Our discussion was much more about Parsons' place in the popular imagination, hopefully the second segment (which features him more heavily) will provide a bit more context.

-

Josh

Notheycant
...Today we're diving into a subject I find to be criminally unexplored in the conspiracy community: John "Jack" Whiteside Parsons. For those of you who aren't familiar with Mr. Parsons, he was an experimental rocket scientist whose work helped the United States win wars and reach the moon. He also performed black magic rituals with L. Ron Hubbard, declared himself to be the Antichrist and masturbated onto "magical" tablets in hopes of creating a "Moon Child" fit to live in outer space that would destroy and rebuild the world as we know it.

Why does your opening paragraph remind me of this scene?

Dr. Egon Spengler: The architect's name was Evo Shandor. I found it in Tobin's Spirit Guide. He was also a doctor, performed a lot of unnecessary surgery. And then in 1920, he started a secret society...

Dr. Peter Venkman: Let me guess: Gozer worshippers.

Dr. Egon Spengler: Right.

Dr. Peter Venkman: [to Ray] No studying.

Dr. Egon Spengler: After the First World War, Shandor decided that society was too sick to survive.

[He pauses, glancing nervously around at the holding cell crowd]

Dr. Egon Spengler: And he wasn't alone, he had close to a thousand followers when he died. They conducted rituals up on the roof. Bizarre rituals, intended to bring about the *end of the world*, and now it looks like it might actually happen.

Dr. Peter Venkman: So be good, for goodness' sake! Whoa, somebody's coming...-

Sorry, I just saw too may similarities. Carry on, no intention to derail.

Notheycant
reply to post by Aleister

 

Norman Klein is an author and L.A. historian whose work is very related to memory, imagination and alternate histories (check out his new project at imaginarytwentiethcentury.com...). Our discussion was much more about Parsons' place in the popular imagination, hopefully the second segment (which features him more heavily) will provide a bit more context.

Parsons has no place in the popular imagination, which is why, even though it ruffs him up unceremoniously (punning), your video is good for educating people that he was one of those who inaugurated the space age. But Klein, with his Charles Manson comparison, and saying something regarding Parsons and "perverse science" (wha?), and your intro with all the black magic talk right at the start of your vid, does a bit to distort people's knowledge of Parson's intentions and role in occultism.

Please don't do the Babalon Working injustice. It was a wonderful moment, with the best intentions, and it worked out in Parsons and Hubbard's personal life much more than they could have expected (as those kinds of things tend to do). Norman Klein may know film history, but are you sure his take on Parsons, and especially the important Babalon Working, are coming from a knowledgeable, informed, and fair place? Thanks.

Notheycant I'm really interested to hear what everyone has to say!

And sure enough, this starts to look like a proper mini-documentary. You're doing find, Josh, keep it up

Sound quality is much better now, but you may want to do something about the overly loud intro/extro. Please read this article.
The logo in the lower left corner is rather big (and, though that's a matter of taste, I don't like it much). Maybe you could replace it with a smaller logo, maybe just the snakes head.

About the topic: interesting stuff, well known to forteans. I believe the FT did some research on this guy too, will have to check. Maybe you could have made some links to stuff like the Vril society, the black sun, Nazi occultism, the Haunebu and other stuff like that and operation paperclip - but that would require a lot more time.

All in all: 35 out of 50, I'd say. Keep it up, you're definitely are going somewhere with this

This subject dovetails with our esteemed member Jim Marrs's book.....

www.nytimes.com...

and

jimmarrs.com...

This guy is intriguing.
Good video josh. Looking forward to knowing more about this.
So he was doing rituals trying to bring demonic entities here? His sexual antics are rather strange. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

violet
This guy is intriguing.
Good video josh. Looking forward to knowing more about this.
So he was doing rituals trying to bring demonic entities here? His sexual antics are rather strange. Whatever floats your boat I guess.

OP, see what I mean? No, he was not doing rituals to bring demonic entities here. He played with one when he was a child, saw something that spooked him, ran, and then came back years later to understand what he had seen. He did a beautiful ritual to empower women in society, to bring back the Goddess energy which was lost.

In Robert Anton Wilson's first (I believe first, of three) "Cosmic Trigger" book he talks about doing a Crowleyian magick ritual from the Book of Lies, complete with circle and cutting himself and all that (above top secret data: heavy rituals have elaborate set-ups to convince your subconscious that you're serious). Wilson conjures up a group of demons, scary fellows, and then he realizes "Wait, these are all coming from my subconscious". At that moment the demons turned into nuns from his grade-school days, shrunk, he laughed and they poofed out of existence. That's the way to play at the ritual game (I haven't in decades, after doing what I guess could be called a Working, but that's between me and myself).

reply to post by Notheycant


Hi Josh,

The most important historical fact about the Parson's craziness to keep in mind is that L. Ron Hubbard stole not only money from trust-fund endowed Jack Parson's, but Hubbard also stole Jack's wife.

That's what was happening out in the desert, between Hubbard and Parson's despite what either of them or anyone else would have you believe.

Also, what Parson's was trying to manifest in the Babalon Working out in the dessert was his "Scarlet Woman". Not a Moon Child. The Moon Child has to do with the 9th degree stuff and you can't do it with another guy. Unless you are Michael Bertiaux; but that's a whole other inside joke.

ETA: Hey, Josh, I take that back, you've got it straight more or less. I dunno, must be me burning out on this stuff, all I see is psychodrama. The only usefullness I can find anymore in the tale of Jack Parson's is that business and pleasure don't mix well. As usual.

Anyhow, good luck out there.

reply to post by Bybyots


Hubbard got Parson's wife and later married her, Parsons got Cameron, everyone happy. Things worked out exactly as they should have, another by-product of something like they were involved in.

reply to post by Notheycant


He was a Nazi. am occultist, most likely a member of the Vril society, with a passion for the rocket science. Odd combination of interests and he died during mishandling accident of rocket fuel used in his experiments.

reply to post by Aleister


Says you, Aleister,

I think that Jack's heart was ripped out, but he was between a rock and a hard place because of his "commitment" to Thelema, so the best he could do is run out to the desert and hurl imaginary mystical firebolts at L. Ron.

I don't think things worked out for Jack at all, even Crowley began to distance himself from him. It was a bad scene in Pasadena, and it has never, ever been made right.

Bybyots
reply to post by Aleister

 

Says you, Aleister,

I think that Jack's heart was ripped out, but he was between a rock and a hard place because of his "commitment" to Thelema, so the best he could do is run out to the desert and hurl imaginary mystical firebolts at L. Ron.

I don't think things worked out for Jack at all, even Crowley began to distance himself from him. It was a bad scene in Pasadena, and it has never, ever been made right.

What likely occurred is that Hubbard moved into the home, and both Parsons and his wife recognized his "stuff" for lack of a thousand other words, and even though Parsons was losing his wife he knew that he and Hubbard, combined, could do a really good thing which Parsons had been "called" to do. And they did. So if Parson's heart was ripped out, I think Cameron was able to massage that pain away, or at least lessen it, quite well. As for Crowley, at that point he was fading, and didn't have long to live, after he finished what he thought of as the culmination of his life's work, the Book of Thoth, so he wasn't reading out the situation as well as he may have earlier in his life. The lesson there is always have a big one to accomplish.

reply to post by Aleister


Maybe,

I have imagined Crowley's assessment of what was happening in Pasadena to be dead-on, based on my own relations with the same groups, they haven't changed and are acting out the same essential scripts in their lives as we speak.

reply to post by Bybyots


I best friend you on enjoying your avatar alone. I think some of what was occurring, and it left Pasadena long ago, was in Hubbard's self-mentioned role of taking over the Crowley spot - and he sure did make an impact. I don't want to debate Scientology, an organization I am not a big fan of unless you have millions of dollars and can afford to spend a chunk of it (which is why they want to attract the famous), but the waves reaching out from Hubbard's work and from the reach of that work are mighty big uns. Crowley should have recognized that, but as far as I know the two never met, which might have changed Crowley's read-out. Wouldn't it have been nice to be sitting around one of those dinner tables with Cameron, Parsons, and Hubbard though. As someone said earlier, the stuff of movies (if we film it they will come).

I vote for Anne Hathaway as Cameron. She can do no wrong, that one.

Parsons testified at the trial that put the former police Captain Earl Kynette, and the head of the LAPD intelligence unit and 2 members of his squad.

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Notheycant


Hey Josh,

Excellent video, I don't think there could be a better introduction to the guy and I am looking forward to the follow up.

Having followed this story for a long time, I can say that I don't believe the government was involved in the death of Jack Parsons, but , yeah, the rest is all really weird.

Good stuff, thanks.

reply to post by Aleister


Good stuff,

But I don't totally agree. I think that the reason that Hubbard's scree became what it did is because it appeals to the least common denominator while retaining the essential framework that he swiped from hanging around with other people that were either running cults or wanted to start cults, or "religions".

That's the very difference that Crowley saw in Parsons and complained about, Parson's whole schtick lacked rigour and discipline, as far as Crowley was concerned, and that was coming from Crowley, an expert-pot at calling the kettle black.

Crowley would have cared less about Scientology after he calmed down and provided he didn't have a stroke, you've seen the A:.A:. material?. Crowley and Hubbard weren't even on the same planet.



P.S. Have you located the camp, oasis or lodge in Pasadena yet?

"About J.W.P. - all that I can say is that I am very sorry - I feel sure that he had fine ideas, but he was led astray firstly by Smith, then he was robbed of his last penny by a confidence man named Hubbard ... I have no further interest in Jack and his adventures; he is just a weak-minded fool, and must go to the devil in his own way..."

-A. Crowley

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

reply to post by Notheycant


Freedom is a Two Edged Sword *wink*

reply to post by Staroth


SO GOOD!