The Liberal Newcomers and How to Destroy a Conservative America

reply to post by Advantage


When conservatives like Ronald Reagan began destroying the unions, he directly affected my family's livelihood in a very negative economic way. Then he took all my tax deductions away and suddenly I had to fill out 1040EZ's. Then all of sudden, poor americans like single mothers were being bashed in newspapers and we were brainwashed into believing they were the enemy. Other americans. Is that what conservatives are? Are their policies meant to enslave the working human and humiliate the poor? Why should I not speak out against these ideas. The liberal polices have done nothing to destroy my way of life.

reply to post by beezzer


Well, from what I see, the democrats are the socialists, and the republicans are the communists.

The first step should be to stop using these types of propaganda terms altogether.

Democrats = Socialists = Republicans = Communists

Why keep pretending any of these terms hold any meaning anymore.

poet1b
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well, from what I see, the democrats are the socialists, and the republicans are the communists.

The first step should be to stop using these types of propaganda terms altogether.

Democrats = Socialists = Republicans = Communists

Why keep pretending any of these terms hold any meaning anymore.

Well it just doesn't sound the same. Telling someone that you don't believe in wealth redistribution or universal health care just doesn't have the zing of telling them "You're a pinko commie Marxist who wants to socialize the world."

Note: For the right change this to "You're a fascist capitalistic NeoCon who wants a return back ally abortions."

And people love the zing.

Krazysh0t
The Republican and Democratic parties need to drop the formalities and just merge into one party. That way we can make room for some real political parties that actually differ from each other, like the Libertarian party.

Interestingly enough I have a friend whose father drives a limo in DC. His father has told him about an occasion where he picked up a leading Dem and Repub and on the trip to wherever they were headed discussed positions on issues as if they were negotiating who was going to take what position...leading the dad to believe that what we see in the Dem vs Repub fiascos are all orchestrated phony conflicts.

I am all for a true, honest and legit 3rd party. When one party wails on the other and the other just takes it without defending themselves it makes you think that there is some BS going on. I can provide a couple of examples: During the 2nd (I believe) campaign by Bush, I believe it was Hillary and perhaps a couple other Dems were making statements about the economy being the worst since Hoover.... Being 59 years old and having experienced the Carter era (double digit inflation, double digit interest rates and double digit unemployment) I knew that was a BS line that only younger people would believe (or the kool-aid drinkers). There was absolutely no dispute from the Repubs.

The other that comes to mind is all the BS from New Orleans about FEMA and Bush (not that I am enamored with Bush...but he took some crap he didnt deserve. I was highly disappointed with his leadership, to put it mildly). The facts were that the first responders were ALWAYS supposed to be local and state authorities, not FEMA. I think the push to make FEMA more of a first responder is a good choice but since I was living in MS at the time, I know a lot about what went on and what didnt. The city of New Orleans failed miserably as did the State who failed to even call out the National Guard until days later let alone marshal any resources to aid.

You just have to wonder...was it an orchestrated event to produce specific results and if so, what were the desired results?

I know that the chaos that occurred in New Orleans was in no way duplicated in Mississippi. The Mississippi coast was hit much harder than New Orleans and yet there was not 1/10th the amount of chaos.

poet1b
reply to post by beezzer

 

Well, from what I see, the democrats are the socialists, and the republicans are the communists.

The first step should be to stop using these types of propaganda terms altogether.

Democrats = Socialists = Republicans = Communists

Why keep pretending any of these terms hold any meaning anymore.

edit on 7-2-2014 by poet1b because: formatting

edit on 7-2-2014 by poet1b because: formatting

Except that the Communist party sells itself to the lowest class, by claiming that once in power, they will take all the riches from the upper class and give them to the lower class...thereby putting everyone on even terms. I was living in Costa Rica during the late 60s. The communist party tried their damndest to recruit from the poor using those exact tactics.

You cannot equate, with any credibility, Repubs and communists. There are some commonalities between Dems and socialists, true, but I would hardly call Dems die hard socialists.

Republicans = Communists? Really? lol I am not Republican, but dayum man...Show me one Repub who would nationalize all industry and strip the wealthy of their riches to give to the poor?

Who would have thought it would be so easy to kill a country from within by crashing the economy with "liar loan's" ( just one of the recognizable disaster's that was used) in the name of the "american dream", build a base of destitute people that will keep you in political office for ever and end it with something called "healthcare" telling America that now that you have NO job you can pursue what dream's you might have left with all your free time.

Bounce your grandkid on your knee and explain that to him or her.

WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT ?? !!

Kali74
reply to post by beezzer

 

Are you seriously willfully ignoring the why? Everything I've posted in this thread is the why... they would vote Republican if the lot weren't such xenophobes.

You are absolutely right. The Republican/Conservative/Tea Party/whatever you want to call that side of it, would do a lot better if they got rid of the crazys. Hell, I was a Tea Party supporter in the very early days, then they let Michelle Bachman and some other goons spout non-sense like "get rid of ALL minimum wage" and "fetuses masturbate in the womb."

The Republicans are losing a huge demographic not jumping on the conservative Catholic Mexicans that are coming here. Same for not getting on board with legalizing a certain plant. Aren't they suppose to be the party of freedom and personal responsiblity above all else? They Republicans are literally throwing away every point except angry, old, white men. And that demographic is frankly, dieing out.

reply to post by Anonex


As far as the republicans losing a huge demographic of conservative Catholic Mexicans I believe Michelle Bachmann succinctly put her parties beliefs on this right out there for everyone to see.

She (Bachmann) said. “If you look at Hispanics today, 77 percent respond that they believe in big and like big government. Fifty-five percent of Asians say they believe in and like big government.”

“It isn’t the conservative Republican immigration policy that immigrants don’t like,” she argued, “it’s our stance on fiscal conservatism, the Constitution, patriotism, the fact that we believe in limited government and personal responsibility.” Link

So, according to her immigrants won't vote republican and hate our way of life. While I'm sure you could pick out a bit of truth in that verbal mess the bottom line is basically "immigrants don't vote republican so we need to stop them."

As long as they really believe this we will never get our borders secured as they need to be, never fix our work visa problems and never resolve the problem of controlling illegal immigrants within our borders. To Bachmann and the democrats across the isle from her it's simply about getting votes. And therein lies the problem.

I've got news for you. The idea of a "Conservative America" is a complete myth.

America has always been liberal. If they were Conservative, you'd never get the American Revolution, the Civil War, the Space Race, the New Deal, or a host of other major items in American history.

Conservatism has always been a disaster for America, but Liberalism has always moved the country forward, or rescued the country from Conservative failures.

Until the Republican party can embrace fiscal conservatism while staying out of other people's wars and Americans bedrooms and bodies, they will struggle to win elections.

reply to post by bbracken677

Being 59 years old and having experienced the Carter era (double digit inflation, double digit interest rates and double digit unemployment) I knew that was a BS line that only younger people would believe (or the kool-aid drinkers). There was absolutely no dispute from the Repubs.

I think it is important to keep the history correct on how our two party system landed the two sucker punch combo onto the U.S. working class. I remember the seventies well.

Nixon/Ford deserve all the credit for double digit inflation paving the way to banking de-regulation, and creation of the urban welfare ghetto jungle. These problems were not a result of social evolution or market economics, they were socially engineered by the bankers, starting decades before the seventies, along with hippies, and the whole druggy era brought on with one hand smuggling in the prohibited substance, and the other stripping away our rights in the enforcement of said prohibition.

Carter followed up by getting usury laws removed, and the beginning of bank de-regulation, and the elimination of consumer protection rights.

This lead to Reagan, and the great neocon of the free market. It was also during Reagan's admin that the massive flood of illegal immigration began flowing over our borders, and a large percentage of our rights were eliminated. Coincidentally, all of this played completely into the hands of the bankers.

reply to post by bbracken677


The republicans are the flip side of the communist coin.

The republicans recruit the poor by convincing them that free markets will give them more equal opportunity, and then they can get rich by gambling in the stock market.

Same con, different tactics.

Republicans use religion to pull in the poor, Communists use atheism.

Republicans demonize government, Communists demonize capitalism.

Republicans corporatize, Communists nationalize.

Both systems strip the wealth away from the people, and give it to the rich, same con, they just switch around the roles.

The democrats and the socialist line up on the same way.

babybunnies
I've got news for you. The idea of a "Conservative America" is a complete myth.

America has always been liberal. If they were Conservative, you'd never get the American Revolution, the Civil War, the Space Race, the New Deal, or a host of other major items in American history.

Conservatism has always been a disaster for America, but Liberalism has always moved the country forward, or rescued the country from Conservative failures.

'

I do not think you have a clue what conservatism actually means.

Name one successful liberal program or policy enacted in the last 30 years.

WTF does liberalism / conservatism have to do with the space race?

The New Deal was most definitely liberal, but has also been credited with extending the Great Depression by years. Virtually every liberal "deal" has turned out to be a total clusterfunck: The Great Society's war on poverty. Social Security. Medicair and Medicaid have been total clusterfuncks when you consider the amount of graft and corruption and fraud involved. These were all great in concept, but totally screwed in execution to a degree that, in many cases, they achieved the exact opposite (see War on Poverty).

Your liberalism is exactly what is driving the US into the poor house and will not only bankrupt this country but also half it's citizens before it is over with.

Without liberalism we may not have seen the likes of HItler, Stalin or Mussolini, amongst others.

So...you would argue that operating in a fiscally responsible manner is bad for the country? You would argue that out of control spending, out of control taxation, out of control growth of govt is actually good for the country? ROFL

poet1b
reply to post by bbracken677

 

Being 59 years old and having experienced the Carter era (double digit inflation, double digit interest rates and double digit unemployment) I knew that was a BS line that only younger people would believe (or the kool-aid drinkers). There was absolutely no dispute from the Repubs.

I think it is important to keep the history correct on how our two party system landed the two sucker punch combo onto the U.S. working class. I remember the seventies well.

Nixon/Ford deserve all the credit for double digit inflation paving the way to banking de-regulation, and creation of the urban welfare ghetto jungle. These problems were not a result of social evolution or market economics, they were socially engineered by the bankers, starting decades before the seventies, along with hippies, and the whole druggy era brought on with one hand smuggling in the prohibited substance, and the other stripping away our rights in the enforcement of said prohibition.

Carter followed up by getting usury laws removed, and the beginning of bank de-regulation, and the elimination of consumer protection rights.

This lead to Reagan, and the great neocon of the free market. It was also during Reagan's admin that the massive flood of illegal immigration began flowing over our borders, and a large percentage of our rights were eliminated. Coincidentally, all of this played completely into the hands of the bankers.

I would agree with virtually every aspect stated above. It was during the Carter years that the economy tanked so badly, so from an historical viewpoint to refer to that era (double digit badness) would be to refer to the Carter era. Add to that that Carter was about as an effective leader and President as Obama's dog is and you have a recipe for disaster. One we are still feeling today.

You also forget that Reagan pursued the strong dollar, meaning that we could better afford goods from overseas, and our goods produced here would cost more overseas....leading us even deeper into the trade deficit and inability to compete in the international market. You can also blame every presidency since then for not addressing, not discussing and certainly not doing a damned thing to remedy the situation. Bush and his emphasis on the small business owner absolutely sickened me, since that was akin to encouraging a people with a shrinking population to masturbate more. And what did Clinton do the help the economy? NADA...he rode the tide of massively increasing personal debt that led to the 21st century's first recession. One that, I might add, actually began before Bush was even nominated for the 2000 election.

I damn them all.

rupertg
Until the Republican party can embrace fiscal conservatism while staying out of other people's wars and Americans bedrooms and bodies, they will struggle to win elections.

Oddly enough, you could say the same about the Democrats. Toss in the increasingly unpopular "UnAffordable Care Act" and we would almost wind up with elections where no one is elected ROFL.

Seriously...I see both parties having problems and unfortunately whoever will be able to spin it their way the best will win more seats in congress and the presidency.

Democrats hardly have any edge at this point. The US is actually pretty ripe for the rise of a credible third party. I dont think it will happen, but with the right combination of common sense, believable candidates (is that even possible? LOL) and a no-nonsense approach to the big issues we face today they could take the country by storm, so to speak.

Fantasy land thinking though, I fear.

reply to post by bbracken677


Do you realize you are parroting right wind propaganda?

A true conservative believes that the masses should be ruled by a small percentage of people who are better then everyone else. Those who think differently have bought into the propaganda lies. Look at the results of what they do, and you will see the truth.

The new deal was a tremendous success.

Social Security and medicare have been tremendous successes. Medicaid has been used by conservatives and the neolibs to subsidize illegal immigration.

People who are against liberty, the rights of man, are not liberals.

Niether Hitler, Stalin, nor Mussolini where liberal. They were all complete tyrants, monarchs, conservatives. They might have called themselves socialist or communists, but that we just a propaganda ploy. None of these people believed in the rights of man, and everything they did was to strip people of their rights, eliminate liberty, and that proves that they were not liberals.

Out of control spending, Out of control taxation, Out of control growth of govt is the conservative agenda.

Carter did not tank the economy, it was Carter that pursued the strong dollar, which was the best thing he did, and Reagan benefited greatly from Carters policy on the dollar.

Reagan enacted the largest tax increase in US history.

Our current mess was created by Gingrich's contract on America which eliminated the key regulations that kept the ICBs from robbing us blind, which is what has happened since then.

poet1b
reply to post by bbracken677

 

Do you realize you are parroting right wind propaganda?

A true conservative believes that the masses should be ruled by a small percentage of people who are better then everyone else. Those who think differently have bought into the propaganda lies. Look at the results of what they do, and you will see the truth.

Wrong....this is your perverted representation. A true conservative believes in fiscal responsibility, lower taxation and lower spending. A true conservative believes in a smaller, less intrusive govt with severe limitations on power. The above is claptrap.

The new deal was a tremendous success.

That's pretty funny given there are a lot of economists who believe the New Deal extended the Great Depression by years. They provide data and analysis to support their opinions. What do you have? lol

Social Security and medicare have been tremendous successes. Medicaid has been used by conservatives and the neolibs to subsidize illegal immigration.

I see...so a Ponzi scheme is successful? By what measure? That is totally laughable. Obviously you have zero contact with elderly who depend on Social Security. Who told you that SS was a tremendous success?
With regards to medicare and medicaid they have both been rife with fraud and wasteful spending...again: these are your examples of success? ROFL
I asked for a successful liberal policy or act passed in the last 30 years. You failed to provide a single example and the above examples, although noble in intent, are symbols of failure and certainly not enacted within the last 30 years.

People who are against liberty, the rights of man, are not liberals.

Nor are they conservatives...what is your point? If anything, most laws that are passed that are intrusive at a personal level are liberal. Liberals seem to think they know better than we do how we should live our lives and choose to use the law to force that on us. Example: NY city and the 32 oz soft drink...outlawed.

Niether Hitler, Stalin, nor Mussolini where liberal. They were all complete tyrants, monarchs, conservatives. They might have called themselves socialist or communists, but that we just a propaganda ploy. None of these people believed in the rights of man, and everything they did was to strip people of their rights, eliminate liberty, and that proves that they were not liberals.

OH...so the actual policies enacted involving such things as the govt owning industries are not socialist? So the dependence of the common people on the govt for all manner of needs (housing, food, goods etc) is not communist?
You seem to confuse the true meanings there. You seem to believe that tyranny, by definition, is conservative which is wrong, wrong wrong. Tyranny is not an economic philosophy and is not exclusive to conservatism or liberalism. Your knowledge of history is poor at best.

Out of control spending, Out of control taxation, Out of control growth of govt is the conservative agenda.

So...who filled your head full of this crap? Obviously you have no clue what conservatism is, or what it means. So you are saying that the EU is filled with conservative govts?
By no definition of the term does conservatism represent the above and the display of ignorance exhibited by posting the above is astounding.

Carter did not tank the economy, it was Carter that pursued the strong dollar, which was the best thing he did, and Reagan benefited greatly from Carters policy on the dollar.

You do realize that the strong dollar policy made our goods more expensive and less competitive to sell overseas. You do realize that by making our dollar stronger it allowed imported goods to be sold cheaper here in the US giving imported goods the edge on domestically produced goods, thereby sealing the fate on domestic production. This was followed, as a direct result of the policy, by the loss of MILLIONS of manufacturing jobs in the US over the next 2 decades. Your grasp of economics is..non-existent.

Reagan enacted the largest tax increase in US history.

Oh really? Who told you this? No doubt some historical revisionist.
"
Over the course of his two terms in office, Reagan presided over several changes to the tax code. What is important to remember — what is vital to understand — is that not all taxes are created equal.

When Democrats or media embrace Reagan for “raising taxes X number of times,” they are usually engaging in willful obfuscation. This is because they know that when most people hear the words, “tax hike,” they naturally assume you mean raising income taxes. But tax rates (both nominal and effective) dropped dramatically across-the-board during Reagan’s tenure.

Not only did the top individual income tax rate go from 70 to 28 percent! — but the tax code was also indexed for inflation (this is a big deal, because inflation had heretofore pushed people into higher tax brackets — a double whammy.

Please address how cutting income taxes from 70% to 28% is the largest tax increase in history...

I raised a family, worked hard at my career, paid taxes, paid for groceries, purchased vehicles and a home during the 80s. I KNOW that what you posted above is the biggest piece of shist I have ever heard. I KNOW what happened to my taxes when Reagan's tax cuts took place. I KNOW that taxes on investments dropped, I KNOW because I LIVED it. Now take your young, ignorant a$$ back to school and learn something worthwhile instead of spouting BS some other ignoputz mouthed.

Our current mess was created by Gingrich's contract on America which eliminated the key regulations that kept the ICBs from robbing us blind, which is what has happened since then.

Perhaps you should actually do some research before making claims. These are the specific reforms addressed by the Contract WITH America:

=== Government and Operational Reforms ===
On the first day of their majority in the House, the Republicans promised to bring up for vote, eight major reforms:
# require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply to Congress;
# select a [[Big Four auditors|major, independent auditing firm]] to conduct a comprehensive [[audit]] of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;
# cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;
# limit the terms of all committee chairs;
# ban the casting of [[Proxy voting|proxy votes]] in committee;
# require committee meetings to be open to the public;
# require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;
# guarantee an honest accounting of the [[United States budget process|Federal Budget]] by implementing zero base-line budgeting.




Very effing different from the perverted view you presented. Learn history or stfu.

I have very little tolerance with liars. Ignorance can be excused...outright lying is something totally different.

The claims of Republican conservatism are highly exaggerated. Most repubs have no idea what true conservatism is. During the early 21st century when the Repubs controlled both the House, the Senate and the presidency as well they behaved in typical liberal fashion. Govt grew by leaps and bounds.

Liberal ideals support big govt, big spending and big taxation. This is indisputable by anyone with even half a brain who knows the difference between truth and kool-aid.