Breaking: NYPD: Philip Seymour Hoffman Found Dead in Manhattan

reply to post by Jobeycool


I wonder how many people that worked with him knew that he was using and didn't say anything?

Some may have, but if they only said something to him, it may not have been effective. Even when an intervention is done by a large group, it isn't always effective.

butcherguy
reply to post by Jobeycool

 

I wonder how many people that worked with him knew that he was using and didn't say anything?

Some may have, but if they only said something to him, it may not have been effective. Even when an intervention is done by a large group, it isn't always effective.

May not have..I think they need to start talking about this problem more in media and Hollywood actors need to come on and talk about how to possibly help.Of course the family has to speak out about it as well.

Sounds like the guy hardcore relapsed. :/

Authorities investigating the death of actor Philip Seymour Hoffman found close to 50 bags containing what is believed to be heroin in his apartment, two law enforcement sources familiar with the probe said Monday. Investigators also found several bottles of prescription drugs, and more than 20 used syringes in a plastic cup, the sources said.

CNN

50 baggies plus prescription meds....

butcherguy
reply to post by Jobeycool

 

I wonder how many people that worked with him knew that he was using and didn't say anything?

Some may have, but if they only said something to him, it may not have been effective. Even when an intervention is done by a large group, it isn't always effective.

I wonder if he was using during filming and to what extent, or if he perhaps just shot up on weekends or in the evenings and used prescription meds to get him through the day.

It's would be fairly easy to tell if he's on something during the course of a production day. When his personal assistants are waiting outside his trailer, or the basecamp PA is inviting him to set and waiting on him to exit and escort him to set, to behavioral changes, etc.

I'm sure people knew something, just probably not the extent.

Liquesence

butcherguy
reply to post by Jobeycool

 

I wonder how many people that worked with him knew that he was using and didn't say anything?

Some may have, but if they only said something to him, it may not have been effective. Even when an intervention is done by a large group, it isn't always effective.

I wonder if he was using during filming and to what extent, or if he perhaps just shot up on weekends or in the evenings and used prescription meds to get him through the day.

It's would be fairly easy to tell if he's on something during the course of a production day. When his personal assistants are waiting outside his trailer, or the basecamp PA is inviting him to set and waiting on him to exit and escort him to set, to behavioral changes, etc.

I'm sure people knew something, just probably not the extent.

Yeah inner circles have to know stuff.His agent had to know something and family members know stuff like this.

That CNN anchor Ashley Bansfield really gets under my skin.

She asked: should the dealer who sold heroin to Philip Seymour Hoffman be put away? Alan Dershowitz - one of her commentrators (as well as Mark O'mara - the lawyer who defended George Zimmerman) argued no, while she argued YES, he should! Alan Dershowitz being the level-headed guy that he is pointed out the absurdity of the idea. It is absurd. It's absurd because people are NOT AS POWERFUL as banfield and others assume that they are. The way we think, the way we feel, is largely - and in some people, almost wholly - dependant on the context we operate within. This context is: where they live, the relationships they have (friends, family) which in turn is often deeply tied into the place they live. In other words, it is mostly CULTURE which feeds these problems, and not individual human beings.

The guy who sold Hoffman the heroin is more a victim of the culture he got sucked into, than a "murderer" who should be held responsible for Hoffman's death. Just think of the absurdity! Think of how easy it is to get tempted into drug use when you're born within a particular context. And gradually, over-time, what appears to be an "unconscionable" evil (which it is) - selling drugs that merely hurt the people who use them - feels like a way to live and make money.

These people are ILL. It'll be a true testament to our societies sanity when we get over the "punish them!" attitude with regard to small time drug dealers (of course cartel people operate at a level much more dangerous and vile than this), and begin to do something about the underlying cultural problems within the context they develop in, and in particular, helping those people who do sell drugs, or use drugs, get the mental health support they need to put their life back together.

Ashly Bansfield was just speaking out of her anger. It's sad and unfortunate that such a great actor died. But it's wrong to want to pin the blame on the guy who sold him the drugs when his free will, his mind, and his emotions, have been constrained by the world he lives within.

reply to post by Astrocyte


Hmm, so your argument is product of the culture/environment? That could be the argument for anything. While yes, the dealer needs to make a living too, and he chose to deal heroin, do we know his status? I mean, is it a street level dealer making ends meet, or someone higher up who rakes in $ through high dollar sales (possibly to higher class citizens and celebrities). Does it matter?

I totally see what you're saying, I just don't agree with it entirely. Product of culture, yes, but that is not an excuse. Yes, these people are ill; addicts for their addition, and dealers for not being able to seek a way out—or for taking an easy way to make money, but I suppose it's society's fault for pushing these things underground AND for not addressing the problems that contribute to their prevalence in general. Should they (hard drugs, heroin/meth/etc) be legal? I argue no, hard drugs should not be legal.

That someone (ANY dealer) would sell something JUST TO PROVIDE A SERVICE and KNOWING it is dangerous and potentially lethal is a decision. Dealing pot is one thing; dealing heroin and meth is another. If he has an ethical disposition he would say, "No, I won't."

Should the dealer who sold the heroin be put away? Yes, insofar as any dealer of hard drugs decides to sell hard drugs (and even doctors that push and prescribe prescription meds like they're candy). Addiction is an illness; selling drugs not so much.

He was a really good actor. Just watched him in the Hunger Games the other night, too. Sigh, booooo!

Brilliant actor, loved his work.

Having said that, I have no sympathy whatsoever for hard drug addicts.

They are weak, and disgust me.

The only hard drug addicts I've ever come across were pathetic fools who weren't worthy of the title "human being".

Don't say I don't know what addiciton is. I do. It's weakness, plain and simple.

Too many people suffer from the hands of hard drug addicts for me to have one iota of sympathy for them.

To add:

Anyone who says addiciton is an illness has no idea what an illness is. They are enabling through this language. It's the worst thing you can tell someone who has so little self-awareness into the origins of and continued feeling for need of their detrimental habits.

You know how people DON'T get addicted to drugs? They own the consequences of their actions. They take responsibility for their transgressions, and realize that they are POWERFUL enough to overcome.

AA is the most cultic, and idiotic organization I've ever heard of.

Addiction is NOT a Brain Disease

It's a choice. Plain and simple.

stargatetravels
reply to post by violet

 

A magazine known for reporting hoax celebrity deaths reported he had died last week or week before.
Sick stuff really, but also quite odd

Eta: just googled some more and apparently the hoax was a hoax itself?

edit on 3-2-2014 by stargatetravels because: (no reason given)

Very strange. Paul walkers death was also hoaxed the day before his death

reply to post by webedoomed



I wish I could down vote a comment.

How about this, if you're so big and bad, shoot up heroin for a couple months, at least once a day, and then try and quit. Come back to me and tell me with a straight face that it wasn't the hardest thing you've ever had to do.

Then I want you to REALLY think about how stressful some people's lives are, and how available some of these drugs are to some people. Opiates literally take away ALL of your stress (although it will come back later in full force when you quit). There are people out there with anxiety disorders, panic attacks etc. I know from personal experience that doctors don't give a sh#t, and prescribe you candy to treat it.

I got addicted to opiates in the hospital (they had me on the most potent stuff imaginable for two week straight, every 4 hours), and I eventually was able to quit, but it took me a good year and a half and it was one of the hardest things I've had to do. I was in hell for weeks going on a couple months before I started to feel better.

So don't pretend to know what you're talking about unless you've done it and quit yourself. Even then, different people have different lives, so don't pretend to know what it's like being in someone else's shoes either.

reply to post by JohnnySasaki


And the people that get on the pain meds then eventually get hooked on heroin yet the mass production of those pills and doctors willing to write prescriptions for them, either out of medical incompetence, bribery, or due to big pharm kick backs, are not considered a catalyst to the problem. At that point you have to blame just the consumer for the market crash of 08. I would love to see any one bring up that argument in these parts.
And then help said patients to work around the pharmacy system that is a check system against the docs. And when a pharmacist does refuse to fill a RX, customer complains and corporate says fill it, it counts as a script count for the end of the week numbers, $$$$$$$$$$.

To be so cold to some one just because they died from a OD is heartless to me. Yes it was a personal choice, a mistake, that lead to an addiction. I doubt any one here has never made a mistake.
Once your body is dependent on something like that then it is no longer a "choice". Your body will make you think you NEED it, because essentially your body does need it to keep it from going into a withdrawal.
Let everything that happened that night, what if the toxicology comes back and there is no heroin in his system (long shot i know) before you toss this guy into the garbage.
I also bet if you stopped and listened to those druggies, that didn't deserve to breath the same air as you, you would find out there is a lot more then meets the eye.

reply to post by Liquesence

Hmm, so your argument is product of the culture/environment? That could be the argument for anything. While yes, the dealer needs to make a living too, and he chose to deal heroin, do we know his status? I mean, is it a street level dealer making ends meet, or someone higher up who rakes in $ through high dollar sales (possibly to higher class citizens and celebrities). Does it matter?

I get what you're saying. Is it fair for me to draw a distinction between the low-level dealer and the dealer who deals in bulk (the cartel guys)? It would seem that there's a continuum between the two cultures, and an argument could be made that there is.

My problem is, I study cognitive science, relational psychology, social psychology and the neuroscience aspect of each of these areas. 5 years ago, if you asked me "should the dealer go to prison"? I would have said: undoubtedly. Now, my knowledge of the subject has grown and with it my awareness of the complexities in human behavior and conduct. Daniel Kahanmean - a man whose work should be required reading in every school curriculum - has shown in his monumental work "thinking, fast and slow", the hidden forces which bias and prime human attention. Keeping this in mind, my study of relational psychology has shown just how POWERFUL the subject of context is: relationships are not merely 'concepts' - but they are real superordinate structures which regulate the behavior of the people who make it up. Together, they create this "force" - a relationship - which becomes coded in the unconscious emotional areas of the brain and become aroused whenever the two people come together.

In a greater grouping of people, we create something called a "culture" - a culture is an even more powerful and pervasive force because it permeates the structures of home life, school life and friendships. Meaning, someone born into this culture has had his brains emotional and cognitive networks SHAPED in the form of the culture he develops in. Everyone within the culture is regulated by this superordinate structure. The question of "why are there different cultures" is a complicated question: but no one can deny that a kid who grows up in a low-income, poverty ridden area is faced with greater challenges and restrictions in the healthy development of his personality than someone born in a middle-income, financially secure area. The material burdens are a part of the question - but they aren't the whole question. A dysfunctional culture feeds off negative habits which are the unconscious "legacy" passed down from one generation to the next by the "culture" they are born into.

I totally see what you're saying, I just don't agree with it entirely. Product of culture, yes, but that is not an excuse. Yes, these people are ill; addicts for their addition, and dealers for not being able to seek a way out—or for taking an easy way to make money, but I suppose it's society's fault for pushing these things underground AND for not addressing the problems that contribute to their prevalence in general. Should they (hard drugs, heroin/meth/etc) be legal? I argue no, hard drugs should not be legal.

I agree. Incarceration for addicts and dealers should be predicated around reform - not punishment. Putting dysregulated people in a prison without a program of reform is merely going to AMPLIFY their dysregulated behavior: its a simple systems effect. In order to reduce the dysfunction, you need to counter it: you need to provide an alternative culture, an alternative emotional model, an alternative way of being.

People who say "who cares" - put them away, in particular, those conservative pundits who think todays prison systems have done a good job, are deeply ignorant people who lack a scientific grounding for their arguments. It's also not beyond question that they are tied into the financial interests of that industry.

That someone (ANY dealer) would sell something JUST TO PROVIDE A SERVICE and KNOWING it is dangerous and potentially lethal is a decision. Dealing pot is one thing; dealing heroin and meth is another. If he has an ethical disposition he would say, "No, I won't."

Again, I agree. I just disagree with "charge the dealer as if he murdered philip seymour hoffman" as the CNN anchor suggested. He should be penalized, but the penalty should take into regard reform by impressing upon inmates a counter-cultural paradigm. More and more research into these areas is showing us just HOW to go about doing this. The brain is an association machine. The culture criminals grow up in, at least for the majority of them, has produced many dysfunctional behaviours and dysregulated emotional patterns. It's a tall order dealing with them in this way, but by doing so, we show empathy, conscience, and maturity as a species. The way to improve culture - to improve society - to make a better world, requires that we pay deeper attention to the criminals in our midst and develop techniques and therapies that will reform them.

reply to post by webedoomed


Ok, if you want go that route, I'll agree that addiction is mental, while dependency is physical.

Without playing semantics or textbook definition, in this case when I say addiction I actually mean physically dependent (which comes with addiction), whereupon the body changes by virtue of the drug use and being without the drug causes a physical reaction and change within (withdrawal) itself.

reply to post by webedoomed


You really have no emotional intelligence, whatsoever.

reply to post by Astrocyte


I have more than anyone who believes addiction is a disease or illness.

Shame on anyone who follows such idiocies.

reply to post by webedoomed


This is why many addicts fear getting help. This kind of ridiculous stigma attached to their problem. So instead they hide it. Or are embarrassed by what they think the Status-Quo thinks of their condition. Many years ago, a cousin of mine, who was addicted to Heroin, committed suicide, rather than face the heartless wrath of his OWN FAMILY. Open arms and understanding, would certainly have helped him.

spacedoubt
reply to post by webedoomed

 

This is why many addicts fear getting help. This kind of ridiculous stigma attached to their problem.

So let me get this right. Someone fears ridicule, so continues to do that which they know would cause it to continue?

Does that make sense to you whatsoever?

So instead they hide it. Or are embarrassed by what they think the Status-Quo thinks of their condition.

Screw the status-quo. They ARE idiots for continuing to be addicts. They should be called out as such

Many years ago, a cousin of mine, who was addicted to Heroin, committed suicide, rather than face the heartless wrath of his OWN FAMILY.
Open arms and understanding, would certainly have helped him.

I'm sorry for your loss, but that is rubbish. I've known too many addicts who willingly choose to abandon their families for hard drugs. It had nothing to do with feeling shame, it was because they enjoyed the high. Their own words.

JohnnySasaki
reply to post by webedoomed

 

How about this, if you're so big and bad, shoot up heroin for a couple months, at least once a day, and then try and quit. Come back to me and tell me with a straight face that it wasn't the hardest thing you've ever had to do.

Are you retarded? Why would I put myself in such a situation? Absolutely rididculous.

Then I want you to REALLY think about how stressful some people's lives are, and how available some of these drugs are to some people. Opiates literally take away ALL of your stress (although it will come back later in full force when you quit). There are people out there with anxiety disorders, panic attacks etc. I know from personal experience that doctors don't give a sh#t, and prescribe you candy to treat it.

You think anyone has a tough time getting drugs on this planet, or easy time in their lives. Any single individual on this planet? BS. We all set a base-point, and choose to shape our minds as we see fit.

I got addicted to opiates in the hospital (they had me on the most potent stuff imaginable for two week straight, every 4 hours), and I eventually was able to quit, but it took me a good year and a half and it was one of the hardest things I've had to do. I was in hell for weeks going on a couple months before I started to feel better.

Good for you for being strong enough. So you went through some pain.. and WHAT?? It was worth it, right? Good.

So don't pretend to know what you're talking about unless you've done it and quit yourself. Even then, different people have different lives, so don't pretend to know what it's like being in someone else's shoes either.

You assume I haven't tried said substances? Your assumptions are false.

reply to post by webedoomed


You should just stop before you embarrass yourself any further. You're ignorance on the subject is astounding.