Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

beezzer
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

Who in the hell are you to determine what someone earns?

That's fine, Beezzer, you don't think there's a problem with greed in the country, that's your view. You don't see a problem with rich people controlling legislation, that's fine.

My conscience disagrees.

I understand many conservatives are religious, but I have yet to hear any concern from conservatives for those in need. Lots of love for the rich though.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


Do you want me to repeat the question?

beezzer
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

Do you want me to repeat the question?

I'm your ignored conscience and I say the people need a raise.

Now have good weekend.

I'll try this one more time ...


reply to post by spiritualzombie

Time for a massive change. I vote for a mass redistribution of wealth.

Does this include all the 1% in all countries?

If so, how would that affect the the entire world population?

What happens if all the "wealth" producers stop producing?

Where does the future distributable wealth come from?

xuenchen
I'll try this one more time ...

 

 

reply to post by spiritualzombie

Time for a massive change. I vote for a mass redistribution of wealth.

 

 

Does this include all the 1% in all countries?

If so, how would that affect the the entire world population?

What happens if all the "wealth" producers stop producing?

Where does the future distributable wealth come from?

That would be great but I'm just talking about here.

Don't worry, they'll still have all their mansions and servents and cars, they will keep producing because they will always pride themselves on making more money.

But the money needs to get out of washington, rich people should not be controlling legislation, minimum wage needs to come up... I don't have all the answers, but the system now is corrupt as hell. Corporations are not people. money is not free speech. There is no corp money in washington. All of these things need to happen.

The fact is, its not just that 1% control it all, its how far above they are from everyone else.

That tall spire needs to come down a bit.

All the corruption is horrible for democracy. All parties need to come together and recognize greed as the illness and addiction it is.

AlwaysIdeaMan

LOL! Nobody will take any material thing from you if we move away from money and accounting for human energy.

I'm not worried about anyone taking "any material thing" - the idea is absurd if wealth is not measured in material things any more. What I'm saying is that they will try to "redistribute" whatever it IS measured in. If wealth is instead measured in, lets say ideas per second, they will try to take some of mine and redistribute them to Charlie down the block who hasn't had an original idea since he had the idea to invest in a case of "billy" Beer in 1978. If, instead, wealth is measured in friends, they'll try to take some of mine or yours (maybe some of mine AND some of yours) to "redistribute" to Quentin, who just sits on the curb all day forlorn because he can't figure out how to get his own. If wealth is measured in family ties... well, you get the picture. the have-nots will always be squalling because they are have-nots, and can't figure out how to be haves. They want Uncle Sugar to get it from someone else and give it to them so that they can be "haves" too. It doesn't matter WHAT they don't have - they WANT it simply because they don't already have it, all the same.

All that will happen is that you will have a CHOICE of what you want to spend your time doing,

Umm... don' tell anyone, 'cause i guess it's a secret, but I already HAVE that choice, as does everyone else if they just care to see it and exercise it. Most people, however, appear to be too wrapped up in crying over what they don't have to see what is right in front of them, that they DO have.

and meanwhile the abundance will begin flowing to all the people not lucky enough to have opportunity in this money-driven world. The kids dying of starvation will have food and the CHOICE of what they want to spend their time doing. The only LOSS anybody will take is power over others. Period.

Abundance won't flow at all until people start realizing what they already have, instead of worrying over what they DON'T have, and how to get it. "Abundance" never comes when you don't have what you are always reaching for, and if people had everything they wanted, they'd just find something else to want, and to pine away over not having.

I can't say I don't believe in luck, because I think it's a miracle that I've survived this long considering some of the wringers I've run through. Other folks tell me it's not luck at all, it's just that I'm too mean to die. I myself, however, am opting for it having been luck. None of my opportunities have been luck driven, however. The ones I've had have been the ones that I've got off my ass and made, or hunted down. Now, it may not hurt that I don't measure "wealth" the same way normal people do - I've got next to nothing any more money wise, but all the same I am one rich mug. I just have the things that make me happy.

Food is not just going to magically appear in front of starving Ethiopian kids. That ain't going to happen no matter how much "free energy" you can manage to inject into the system. Acquiring food takes more than just wishful thinking.

The only "power" anyone has over anyone else even now is the power they are given by their underlings, the people they are "lording it over". If people made that simple realization, the world would change overnight - they would simply stop acknowledging that power, and in doing so it would cease to exist. You see, "power" is in the acknowledgement of it - it's not "power" if no one cares. If "money is power", then stop giving them your money, and watch their entire world shrivel up and die.

spiritualzombie

beezzer
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

Who in the hell are you to determine what someone earns?

That's fine, Beezzer, you don't think there's a problem with greed in the country, that's your view. You don't see a problem with rich people controlling legislation, that's fine.

My conscience disagrees.

I understand many conservatives are religious, but I have yet to hear any concern from conservatives for those in need. Lots of love for the rich though.

Oh, yes, please put words in our mouths.

I don't love the rich, but I love theft even less. If we all decide not to respect the right a person has to their property, no matter how much they have and how greedy we think they are with it, it's only a matter of time before there is no respect for our property, too.

What happens on the day they come for your hard-earned stuff because you "have too much" and are "too greedy" even though you thought you were the very model of a proper and caring, concerned citizen?

The answer is that it won't be long because the kind of thing you're advocating is never satisfied and it always eats the next people down on the ladder and so on and so forth until no one has anything.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


No, they'll go elsewhere just as soon as somewhere else affords them protection for what they make.

Have you not been paying attention to France?

reply to post by nenothtu


To say nothing of the fact that when people are not content with what they have already, they will never see the abundance no matter how much it has already come to them.

There are plenty of the super rich who have that problem - they have plenty but it will never be enough, they want more.

And taking it away from them fixes nothing, and it won't fix anything to give it to the people who will never be content with what they have who are stuck lower down on the ladder. They won't be grateful for it and will only wonder why you didn't take more and give them more.

There are always going to be those for whom it will never, ever be enough, and the law cannot fix that. Redistribution cannot fix that, and I think we've been wasting our time arguing with a few of them right here.

AlwaysIdeaMan

If you have events with opportunity to jump at, sure. But you need luck to be in the right place at the right time to do any jumping.

That's not "luck", it's circumstance. There are ideal opportunities all over the world, all the time. If it were luck dropping these people into what they find, then they would "luck" into those ideal opportunities... but as "luck" would have it, they never know of those ideal opportunities.

Instead, they grab whatever they can find at the time, and make that take them somewhere else. It's not luck at all - it begins with a circumstance, and they work the crap out of that to get where they want to be.

spiritualzombie

beezzer

spiritualzombie
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'll say as a catholic your lack of empathy is not at all surprising. I'm sure Jesus is very proud of your 10%. I'll bet when he was being crucified, having his body beaten and destroyed, being stuck in the gut with a spear, and hanging on a cross to die, for everyone else's sins, he would have wished 10% of his pay was all that was needed.

It's 10% more than you give.

Yep, kudos to you. Your soul is cleansed. I don't give my 10% to church or charity. I guess you have earned your right not to care about people while I still struggle along with selfish empathy ready to vote my tax dollars.

Your tax dollars ... oh and everone else's.

It must feel good to discharge your social responsibility when you drop that ballot in the box. Sort of all ... I gave at the office bro. By I really helped out my fellow man, now I don't have to worry about doing my bit for anyone else because I voted for Uncle Sugar to do it all for me.

Did you miss the part where charity is supposed to be done by you personally?

reply to post by ketsuko


I'm not talking about stealing money.

I'm talking about correcting a situation through policy.

I can't believe it. These guys took trillions and you guys defend them. They dip their hands in legislation and you guys defend them.

They actually deserve to be in prison, stealing their money would be a lesser punishment than there corruption has put on the country--- and yet all I'm talking about is supporting laws that make them pay their fair share.

Wow, their investments in right wing media has really paid off.

combatmaster
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

It is a fair idea....

But it will not work in the real world.

There will always be a 1%. It doesnt matter what you do, it is part of human nature to distribute power to a minority, whether through action or inaction, it is inevitable! Individuals will always having clashing opinions.

The only way to stop this from occurring is for every single individual human being to achieve collective consciousness. That way all individuals are in the same thought process. Humanity acts as a whole, as one!

Do you mean like a hive of bugs?

We are humans, not bugs.

Even hives have "the 1%" - the queen and drones, etc.

If "individuals are in the same thought process", have "achieved collective consciousness", they re no longer individuals.

And they will STILL have a "1%".

reply to post by spiritualzombie


I'm sure the money will be equally spread to all of us, by our benevolent redistributionist overlords.

Pretend you kill the hated 1% and take their money? Who says where it goes after that? Another, different 1%, that's who, who aren't going to be any kinder to you then your hated capitalists are, and may in fact, be much meaner (a cursory glance at history would tell you this). Meet the new boss, meaner than the old boss, that's who, only now all the rich who you took everything from, well, they aren't employing ANYONE now, because you killed them and/or confiscated it all and now you have one of the new benevolent wealth redistributors, the new 1%, who now not only has the former 1%'s wealth, but now uses that hard won wealth (theft) as a means to strengthen their grip over the masses and go from being their kindly wealth redistributors to their kindly tyrants. The only wealth that will be "redistributed" will be in the form of bullets to all the minions of redistribution who refuse to stop complaining that they never got their cut of the 1%'s cash that was "supposed" to be redistributed.

spiritualzombie
reply to post by ketsuko

 

I'm not talking about stealing money.

I'm talking about correcting a situation through policy.

I can't believe it. These guys took trillions and you guys defend them. They dip their hands in legislation and you guys defend them.

They actually deserve to be in prison, stealing their money would be a lesser punishment than there corruption has put on the country--- and yet all I'm talking about is supporting laws that make them pay their fair share.

Wow, their investments in right wing media has really paid off.

But it's the ultra Left Wing media that promotes the Corporatism that influences government policies.

Conservatives generally want less government less authority and no tyranny.

What makes anybody think that the ultra rich are all Right Wing?

All authoritarian and totalitarian factions are ultra Left Wing.

spiritualzombie

Wow, their investments in right wing media has really paid off.

Careful, your politics are showing...

I've noticed an increasing tendency in your posts to politicize by slamming "conservatives", as if there aren't any liberals raking in your dough right along with the rest of the 1%.

You're going to have to abandon that false dichotomy if you ever expect to get anywhere with these notions of yours. You're not going to make much headway by showing your true colors in time to piss off at least half of your voting public...

I have to wonder... why do you need a government to do charity work for you? Why not cut out the middle man, and do it yourself, thus eliminating the overhead of running the show, and thereby delivering more bang for your buck to the poor and downtrodden?

If you really believed what you preach, you would be living it. You would be living in a dilapidated rooming house to save moeny, worjking to jobs to GET money, and giving all the excess to the poor.

Not "10% tithes". Not your taxes. ALL of your excess above the cost of your room, clothes, and grub. You would be dressing poor, and eating poor, in order to deliver more of your cash to the downtrodden.

When you can do that, you may have a chance to convince the "1%" that they ought to do more... until then, not so much. You'll NEVER convince them by just pissing in their wheaties and going on your merry way. How is that any different from what THEY do, and which you lament?

If you are unwilling to live your own convictions, it's really hard to convince someone else that they are GOOD convictions.

Come visit me. See how I live. Walk with me through MY neighborhood... then tell me how bad us "EVIL conservatives" are.

You can always hop into your car and just drive away to get away. I can't follow you - I don't have a car.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


But what you don't seem to understand is that the very people making the laws are the ones who enabled all this to begin with, and you want to give them more power.

This is exactly where Occupy went wrong - they turned to government, the very ones who made the corrupt system, to fix it.

That's like one drunk asking another alcoholic to hold the booze!

spiritualzombie

I thought we all grew up watching Star Wars and knew the light from the dark-- but as an adult I see the dark side is considered a legitimate political party. Anger, hate, aggression... Just a political stance.

Hold on there jus' a second, sparky!

I've been a few places... here and there, now and then, and many of those places were in hot wars. I have NEVER, EVER seen anyone so angry, so hateful, so aggressive and willing to shoot people up for not toeing their line and obeying their decrees as what used to be called "leftists", but who are currently trying desperately to shift the shoe to the other foot.

Nossir, you don't get a pass on that one.

Ever seen a Soviet flag? It was red. Ever seen a Chinese flag? red again... and so on down the line. Red has always been traditionally the color associated with leftists, what I have come to call "collectivists", as it is a more fitting and descriptive term. Notice the color associated with the Republicans these days? Red again. it was not always thus. That change occurred around the year 2000 elections. What was blue was suddenly red, and what was red was suddenly blue. It was probably more than just a leftist attempt at rehabilitating their broken image - it was also about the time that the neocons took over the Republicans. Neocons are neither new nor conservative. They even define themselves as "recovering" liberals... but I don't think, from seeing the things they do, that recovery has been going all that well.

They are still what has always been "liberals", what has always been "reds". Their "new" colors after their successful takeover of the Republicans even show that.

Don't try to paint the current Republican party as "conservative". They are not. All of the conservatives jumped ship after the takeover became obvious, and we no longer have an organized conservative party in the US.

zeroBelief
It really all comes down to personal choice. We don't all have to be convinced that the world is out to get us. That "luck" is something to pray for, and if it doesn't come your way, that you are screwed.

We don't all have to make conscious decisions to change our lives.

Good things happen to GOOD PEOPLE.

JUST BE GOOD.

BE NICE.

EVERYONE WILL LOVE YOU FOR IT.


And attractive women will FLOCK to you!!!!

It's true. So horribly, HORRIBLY, true.

And, being good, you will not have the moral (or more properly, "immoral") resources to take proper advantage of that situation.

Life sucks when you're good - it's so UNFAIR!

Won't someone please pass a law to correct that injustice?

Gozer
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

I'm sure the money will be equally spread to all of us, by our benevolent redistributionist overlords.

Pretend you kill the hated 1% and take their money? Who says where it goes after that? Another, different 1%, that's who, who aren't going to be any kinder to you then your hated capitalists are, and may in fact, be much meaner (a cursory glance at history would tell you this). Meet the new boss, meaner than the old boss, that's who, only now all the rich who you took everything from, well, they aren't employing ANYONE now, because you killed them and/or confiscated it all and now you have one of the new benevolent wealth redistributors, the new 1%, who now not only has the former 1%'s wealth, but now uses that hard won wealth (theft) as a means to strengthen their grip over the masses and go from being their kindly wealth redistributors to their kindly tyrants. The only wealth that will be "redistributed" will be in the form of bullets to all the minions of redistribution who refuse to stop complaining that they never got their cut of the 1%'s cash that was "supposed" to be redistributed.

Wow, you went very draconian. Kill the top 1% and take all their money? That's a bit extreme.