Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

"Time for mass redistribution of wealth"---
1. define wealth
2. define who decides what is "wealth"
3. who gets to be beneficiary of the redistribution

In my small neighborhood there are two men, both 87 years old, born and raised in this community. Both graduated high school then went to WWII, fought for their country and came home. One took advantage of his GI bill and went to college. The other married and began accumulating debt. Just recently he was telling me how he used his WWII bonus to buy the family their first TV set!
The guy who went to college became a geologist and because there weren't any jobs available in western Kentucky he went to Texas and got a job with an oil company. In the '70s he became interested in computers because in his words, "I figured they were going to take over the world and I needed to "know thy enemy" so I took classes." In the '80s he used his computer knowledge to write programs for the oil companies---as a hobby, not a part of his job. He called it "tinkering with programming" but when it was proven workable, he sold some of those programs to his company and made himself some money out of his "computer hobby." By the mid-'80s every oil company in Texas and the south wanted his programs so he created a company and hired a couple of college kids to help him. By 1989, he had his 30 years in with the oil company and was ready to retire back to his home community. He sold his "hobby" business, gave his employees quite large bonuses, (in excess of one million dollars each) and retired back home with a tidy sum of several millions after taxes.
The other fellow---well, he worked hard all his life but refused to have anything to do with computers and moved from job to job so he wouldn't have to deal with learning to use them. He continued to buy everything he obtained "on time" and never bothered to think about saving for a rainy day or for retirement. Today he lives on social security, has sold the house he inherited and has already frittered away the money he got for it. To this day, he says, "The little man doesn't have a chance." And yet, the fellow that lives just across the road from him had the same upbringing, the same opportunity and made a cart-load of money.
Which of these guys was "just lucky"?
Why should the fellow who put his talents to work producing something that others found beneficial have to pay more in taxes than the fellow who made different decisions and made no provisions for the future? Mr. Rich Neighbor doesn't use any more public services than Mr. Poor Neighbor---far less in fact since he doesn't utilize VA services, has a private physician. He doesn't go down to the local senior citizens center to eat practically free lunches every day---in fact he donates heavily to that service. He doesn't use the "free rides for seniors" on the local transit system, he donates to that system and hires a taxi to take him into town when he has business there.
And yet people like you want to reach into his pocket and take the money he earned honestly, saved honestly, and give it to the fellow who is struggling because in 87 years he never learned to handle money and frittered away every penny ever handed to him (inheritance) and now wants more because----he doesn't have enough?
It's not just my neighborhood, I see it in my own family. Some of us took advantage of opportunities, went to school, lived on less than we made (yes, even as a single Mom, I always managed to live on less than I made) and plan for the future. Now that we've achieved our goals and retired in comfort, I hear about how "lucky" we are. This comes from people who are up to their necks in debt for vehicles and gadgets that are bought with credit and wear out long before they are paid off. This is from people who refused to go to school to better their position in life and now hiss and moan because they don't have a new car or a new smart phone and can't get one because those nasty bankers won't give them money after their third default and bankruptcy. They are the "I want it, and I want it NOW!" generation.
By the same token, in my extended family I see those who have put the time and effort into education (both college and technical schools) doing well. They have worked hard their entire short lives, beginning working when they 14 years old, working in restaurants, construction, etc., whatever they could find, long hard hours and putting part of their earnings into savings accounts. They're the ones who drive "old" cars, don't have the latest gadgets or big screen tvs and don't pay for their meals with a credit card.
And you know what? The ones who are hissing and moaning don't really want help with their finances, they want money. It reminds me of a line from the old John Hartford song, "I don't need work, I need money." When they come to me for help, the only thing I can do is to show them how I accomplished saving money while making relatively little. The first thing I tell them is "It isn't easy to make money but it is very easy to lose money."
I have had five instances when broke, bankrupt relatives have come to me for money when their stupidity and greed got the best of them. Because I believe charity begins with my family, I helped but with the condition that they change things in their lives if they truly wanted to prosper. "Since what you've been doing for the past 20 years hasn't worked, don't you think it's time to make some sort of change?" was always my question. Their answers were always affirmative and yet when I showed in black and white, why they were in the position they found themselves, just like Congress, they absolutely refused to change their spending habits. One, when faced with bankruptcy which could have been avoided actually said to me, "If I have to cut off my cable tv what's the point of living?"
Of the five that I have attempted to help, only one took the help and has turned her life around in a dramatic way. Now the others look at her and say, "Boy are you lucky!" Her answer is usually, "Yeah, I'm lucky to have found 3 jobs so I could work 7 days a week for 3 years to get out of debt."
I suspect that the original poster of this thread has never owned or managed a business, has not a clue as to how business actually works and was educated in "reformed" "it's everyone's fault but mine" schools. But I'm just guessing....
And for your listening pleasure, the tune I mentioned above. And keep in mind, this is from a guy who kept his job as a riverboat pilot for many, many years after he became a millionaire. www.youtube.com...

reply to post by zeroBelief


Yeah, I'm still not convinced you're not Ezra Klein slumming until your website is up and running.

AlwaysIdeaMan

combatmaster
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

It is a fair idea....

But it will not work in the real world.

There will always be a 1%. It doesnt matter what you do, it is part of human nature to distribute power to a minority, whether through action or inaction, it is inevitable! Individuals will always having clashing opinions.

The only way to stop this from occurring is for every single individual human being to achieve collective consciousness. That way all individuals are in the same thought process. Humanity acts as a whole, as one!

No it's not "human nature" to distribute power to a minority. Since we have always had energy scarcity, both human and other energy, we have had to live with the people who have control of that through their luck (and with money, the psychopathic ones who will screw you over for money and power over you).

We just NOW in history have the tools to eliminate control over others in favor of autonomous control of ourselves. Human energy scarcity can be supplemented with robots, and there's all this energy all around us that some of us do know how to pull usable energy from. It's presently not available because the 1% know that their power over us relies on energy scarcity.

edit on 31-1-2014 by AlwaysIdeaMan because: typo

Yes, one of those tools is the internet. The internet, among other things, is essentially a primitive/limited form of collective consciousness to the human species. So if you give us real CC, we will be able to do what you said properly.

spiritualzombie
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

Oh, yes, I'm super concerned with Jesus and God. And you should be too. There are supposedly 2 billion Christians on the planet... You know what that means? A mass movement of peace and love the likes of which make the hippie movement of the 60s pale in comparison.

Together, me, and my two billion friends rail against greed and fight for the little guy, we accept sacrifices to our taxes to make sure everyone can have healthcare and we are never ever in favor of war. Yes, me and my mighty fellow Christians are like the modern day Jedi always striving for peace and love in the galaxy!

Oh, wait, that doesn't exist. I guess I'm not very religious.

edit on 31-1-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

See, just give up.

You've lost already.

"Luck" is not on your side.

Let the buzzards come and claim their feast.

Don't bother wiping the flies off of the child's eyes.

Just lay there....and die.

Don't actually DO anything to better yourself. To make yourself more capable of a better life. Nope.

"Luck" has forsaken you.



Oh, and have about a dozen or so kids. And make sure you make it onto the national news asking "Who's gonna feed my babies?"

Because you've got "BAD LUCK".

diggindirt
I suspect that the original poster of this thread has never owned or managed a business, has not a clue as to how business actually works and was educated in "reformed" "it's everyone's fault but mine" schools. But I'm just guessing....

Wrong guess, but it's okay. Some days you might think I'm an alcoholic or a drug addict or poverty stricken. I might be gay or single or have a family. I might be on welfare or I might run my own company. It's hard to tell because I have empathy for people who struggle. I care about people in pain. I understand people make mistakes, and I think we are all strong enough to help out.

beezzer
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

Yeah, I'm still not convinced you're not Ezra Klein slumming until your website is up and running.

My first in-laws thought I was Jim Morrison reborn.

My second in-laws thought I was the Anti-Christ.

My mother-in-law today? She just thinks I'm Jimmy Hoffa

spiritualzombie

diggindirt
I suspect that the original poster of this thread has never owned or managed a business, has not a clue as to how business actually works and was educated in "reformed" "it's everyone's fault but mine" schools. But I'm just guessing....

Wrong guess, but it's okay. Some days you might think I'm an alcoholic or a drug addict or poverty stricken. I might be gay or single or have a family. I might be on welfare or I might run my own company. It's hard to tell because I have empathy for people who struggle. I care about people in pain. I understand people make mistakes, and I think we are all strong enough to help out.

And you accused me of having an ego?

You just described yourself as being the second coming.

Excuse me....

I just threw up a little in my mouth....

reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan


There will never be "free" energy of a usable level, never. Just basic electricity requires a substantial investment, big time....generation, transmission, distribution, control, safety, and much more. even if at this point it was free, are you wanting all consumable electronic and electrical devices handed free too?, what about warranty, support and parts???? free, free, free.... The typical modern mindset of entitlement proves beyond a shadow of a doubt: lack of drive, determination, and basic human traits of making tomorrow better than today by your hands, not the labor of someone you determine should silver platter you something of your choice when you decide you want it. Someone must design, manufacture, test, ship, store and sell every damn thing on this planet....They will not work free, and neither should you...but if you want something bad enough, get off your ass and work for it, like humans do and have done for eons....but we owe you jack, and thats what your socialist agenda will get you....jack...socialism is for stupid and lazy subhumans whom want their nanny government to cradle to grave them, and the world will be wonderful....BFS!

combatmaster

AlwaysIdeaMan

combatmaster
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

It is a fair idea....

But it will not work in the real world.

There will always be a 1%. It doesnt matter what you do, it is part of human nature to distribute power to a minority, whether through action or inaction, it is inevitable! Individuals will always having clashing opinions.

The only way to stop this from occurring is for every single individual human being to achieve collective consciousness. That way all individuals are in the same thought process. Humanity acts as a whole, as one!

No it's not "human nature" to distribute power to a minority. Since we have always had energy scarcity, both human and other energy, we have had to live with the people who have control of that through their luck (and with money, the psychopathic ones who will screw you over for money and power over you).

We just NOW in history have the tools to eliminate control over others in favor of autonomous control of ourselves. Human energy scarcity can be supplemented with robots, and there's all this energy all around us that some of us do know how to pull usable energy from. It's presently not available because the 1% know that their power over us relies on energy scarcity.

edit on 31-1-2014 by AlwaysIdeaMan because: typo

Yes, one of those tools is the internet. The internet, among other things, is essentially a primitive/limited form of collective consciousness to the human species. So if you give us real CC, we will be able to do what you said properly.

No need for "collective consciousness" per se. But, in fact, the internet IS a crucial part in being able to deal with problems and offer open source programming for public works. The whole point of abundance is to allow each of us to do as we please as long as we do no harm. The three laws I listed on page 8, bottom post, are all we need.

I read a piece by Amaterasu Solar on a solutocracy, where the focus is on solving problems and not on forcing conformity. This solves the problem of the letter of the law being counter to the spirit - which happens all too often. You should look him up.

beezzer
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

You're pushing an agenda.

Talk about closed-minded!

Why not escape from that Ivory Tower that your erudite education has placed you in and work and own things for a while?

The agenda? Closed-minded. For real, man, talk to me like you really want me to understand. What Ivory tower?

I see a lot of judgment towards the poor, way too much adulation of the rich. Reasons why rich NEED tax cuts, and raising minimum wage is just bad.

I'd like to see some open minds here. I'd like to see some human compassion.

You said you're a catholic. How? Why? You know Jesus palled around with whores? He stood up for whores and thieves. He believed in love, not war. Why the hell are you catholic? Is it just a tradition for you? There is nothing at all in your dialogue that makes me feeling like I'm talking to a follower of Christ.

It's absolutely ignorant to look at the situation we have today with the super rich and not see that they are buying the government. You can agree with me and say you don't care, or that's just the way it is, but to defend them? That's not partisan, it's just plain stupid.

teslahowitzer
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

There will never be "free" energy of a usable level, never. Just basic electricity requires a substantial investment, big time....generation, transmission, distribution, control, safety, and much more. even if at this point it was free, are you wanting all consumable electronic and electrical devices handed free too?, what about warranty, support and parts???? free, free, free.... The typical modern mindset of entitlement proves beyond a shadow of a doubt: lack of drive, determination, and basic human traits of making tomorrow better than today by your hands, not the labor of someone you determine should silver platter you something of your choice when you decide you want it. Someone must design, manufacture, test, ship, store and sell every damn thing on this planet....They will not work free, and neither should you...but if you want something bad enough, get off your ass and work for it, like humans do and have done for eons....but we owe you jack, and thats what your socialist agenda will get you....jack...socialism is for stupid and lazy subhumans whom want their nanny government to cradle to grave them, and the world will be wonderful....BFS!

Hmmmm.... I read a book by Dr. Paul LaViolette called Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion. All about electrogravitics and how it draws on the energy around us and can provide more energy than is used to operate the devices used to generate the power. It went into black projects in the 1950's.

Edit: "Entitlement?" No... I want ALL people to have a CHOICE of how they spend their lives. I want FREEDOM to do as I want, when I want. I want that for ALL others, too. We have "done that for eons" because ENERGY has been scarce. We now can access abundant energy, the energy we swim in.

reply to post by zeroBelief


How is it the second coming to care about people's pain, to understand people make mistakes, to care about those struggling? Is that really so distant a concept for you that you would think of it as the second coming.

I don't know what to say. I've read books, I've watched movies. I have empathy for people.

You can do it too, my son.

Hit wrong button.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


I never have to help Beezer, he does just fine but....Who helps the poor? the poor? no, people with money or resources, do not have to be rich, just have something of value to help someone with little to zero. Rich people create jobs, which creates the opportunity for a level of self sustainability, not a guarantee, but a chance...poor people do not have jobs to give you that chance. Some rich got their wealth bt family, ripping people off or busting and risking their ass off, and I salute them. I wish I had something that people wanted and needed to create wealth for my family...but I have to work hard to maintain a somewhat stagnant life where I will work till I die...but I will do just that, I will work for the rich man, as the poor man offers me no job but an empty hand wanting me to give him something I worked for. Humans are very strange, but I think the socialist have to be the most retarded of all....

teslahowitzer
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

I never have to help Beezer, he does just fine but....Who helps the poor? the poor? no, people with money or resources, do not have to be rich, just have something of value to help someone with little to zero. Rich people create jobs, which creates the opportunity for a level of self sustainability, not a guarantee, but a chance...poor people do not have jobs to give you that chance. Some rich got their wealth bt family, ripping people off or busting and risking their ass off, and I salute them. I wish I had something that people wanted and needed to create wealth for my family...but I have to work hard to maintain a somewhat stagnant life where I will work till I die...but I will do just that, I will work for the rich man, as the poor man offers me no job but an empty hand wanting me to give him something I worked for. Humans are very strange, but I think the socialist have to be the most retarded of all....

Totally retarded. Who wants to help pay for healthcare for poor people when we could put that money into campaign spending and buy a president? Who would want to raise minimum wage when we can just say... um no. Let's get those tax cuts made permanent though. Make it happen. Chop chop.

Yeah stupid socialist. And liberals too... always wanting equality for other people. So retarded.

reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan


Tell the good doctor to get to work on the gravitational control this will take, and spend millions, take years of research and development, by the greatest minds, test, safety, effects, and on and on to give you free energy... im sure the doc and everyone is busting their ass and spending all of their money and time and the end result will be... all free......holy friggin poop....read it over and over....your utopia is in your own mind...this theology is possible on earth...in about 200 years, but not with this crooked government...bottom up overhaul, no redistribution, you didnt earn it you do not get it, period. so the lazier i am the more i should get? what is my reason to get out of bed? why should I make any effort to do ANYTHING? and if everyone is the same???

reply to post by spiritualzombie


You misunderstand the approach.

Those of us don't hate the poor. We don't hate those who are in need.

Whom I despise is those who sit on their butts and do nothing.

They speak well, they plead their case well, but they still. Just. Sit.

I admire and encourage anyone and everyone who tries to succeed. Everyone tries.

And everyone fails. Lord knows I've failed countless times.

But the true character of a person isn't in how low has he fallen or how many times he has fallen.


You judge a man by how he picks himself back up.

reply to post by teslahowitzer


The majority of working class Americans are "earning" more than they are receiving. The fact is they are underpaid. And the almighty job creators say "We can't pay them anymore - it will hurt business!" and if you try to let tax cuts for those few expire they say, "But you can't take our tax cuts, it will hurt business!" and if their business brings the country to its knees through their own corrupt practice they say, "But you have to pay us TRILLIONS or else it will be very very bad for business!"

Great bunch of guys you conservatives represent.

reply to post by spiritualzombie


Like everyone else... I will look for a more realistic and thought provoking thread and ignore this one completely.....your ideas are not new, nor at top level. Everone on equal ground will not happen for a long time, a very long time. the standard self minded and basic human greed runs in automatic mode and it will be a few generations before true equality becomes even possible. This will take a crap load of evolvement that todays humans are not remotely capable of...good luck and brush up on your communication skills...you will need it......

reply to post by spiritualzombie


Who in the hell are you to determine what someone earns?