SETI Candidate Signals List

JadeStar

JayinAR
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Unfortunately the likelihood of the Contact scenario playing out just like that (signal sent directly at us) is very small.

While I agree with the entirety of your post, I think we will find your "smokestacks" before an actual message.

I agree. I would even speculate that we might find ET through something completely on the surface, unrelated to radio astronomy.

Maybe we find ET through genetics or particle physics? It's all very exciting and even more exciting is that people are seriously discussing this now, doing the experiments, publishing papers on their results (even null results are valuable in designing the next search).

The idea of finding evidence in our DNA is a good one too.

Glad they're looking.

Me too. I find that one fascinating as well. It was kind of alluded to in the recent movie Prometheus. I think it is a concept that would rock us more than finding a radio signal to be honest.

To know you'd be walking around with a message from ET in your own DNA. Wow. Most people's mind would be blown.

Did you see that thread the other day about diamonds being quantum entangled? If it is possible to cause diamonds to be entangled, it should be possible to use them as a communication device, right?

If so, we could find ET in very short order.

JayinAR

JadeStar

JayinAR
reply to post by JadeStar

 

Unfortunately the likelihood of the Contact scenario playing out just like that (signal sent directly at us) is very small.

While I agree with the entirety of your post, I think we will find your "smokestacks" before an actual message.

I agree. I would even speculate that we might find ET through something completely on the surface, unrelated to radio astronomy.

Maybe we find ET through genetics or particle physics? It's all very exciting and even more exciting is that people are seriously discussing this now, doing the experiments, publishing papers on their results (even null results are valuable in designing the next search).

The idea of finding evidence in our DNA is a good one too.

Glad they're looking.

Me too. I find that one fascinating as well. It was kind of alluded to in the recent movie Prometheus. I think it is a concept that would rock us more than finding a radio signal to be honest.

To know you'd be walking around with a message from ET in your own DNA. Wow. Most people's mind would be blown.

Did you see that thread the other day about diamonds being quantum entangled? If it is possible to cause diamonds to be entangled, it should be possible to use them as a communication device, right?

If so, we could find ET in very short order.

Communication via quantum entanglement faster than light is not possible because in order to read the quantum state of the particles a slower than light signal must be sent by conventional means.

reply to post by JadeStar


If the diamond becomes entangled because of an electrical charge, could you not use it like binary. Charge =1. No charge = 0.

If another crystal was tuned to that frequency it would just be a matter of being able to recognize when the two are entangled, right?

JayinAR
reply to post by JadeStar

 

If the diamond becomes entangled because of an electrical charge, could you not use it like binary. Charge =1. No charge = 0.

If another crystal was tuned to that frequency it would just be a matter of being able to recognize when the two are entangled, right?

In order to measure the quantum state one needs information which can only be sent at light speed or slower. Thus negating the whole point of doing it.

You can't recognize if a particle is entangled without information about the other particle. And that information can only be sent at light speed or slower. It's that simple.

JadeStar

JayinAR
reply to post by JadeStar

 

If the diamond becomes entangled because of an electrical charge, could you not use it like binary. Charge =1. No charge = 0.

If another crystal was tuned to that frequency it would just be a matter of being able to recognize when the two are entangled, right?

In order to measure the quantum state one needs information which can only be sent at light speed or slower. Thus negating the whole point of doing it.

You can't recognize if a particle is entangled without information about the other particle. And that information can only be sent at light speed or slower. It's that simple.

edit on 2-2-2014 by JadeStar because: (no reason given)

I would think that in order for it to be useful & effective the "system" need only be tested to ensure that it works.

Why can't two teams on opposite coasts decide in advance that they are going to conduct an entanglement test in 3 days time but they absolutely do NOT conduct the test any sooner. At the point the decision is made - but 3 days prior to the test taking place - the "receiving" team begins monitoring on their end. They continuously record the "random" quantum state info while waiting for a confirmation message that the "sending" team has completed their end of things. Confirmation message and quantum state info of particle is sent at light speed (minus any transmission media time which is measurable) that the sending team has completed their end of the test. A simple measurement is then done to see which happened first: evidence of entanglement or message confirming test has begun from sending team along with unique quantum state info and time it was measured by sending team.

Would that not work?

re-read what I posted above.

I think the problem comes from people thinking quantum entanglement is like radio. It is not.

Imagine a radio that in order to hear ANYTHING you had to phone someone first to know if it was on and receiving any stations.

Now imagine having to do that a million times a second to stay "tuned" to the station.

That's quantum entanglement.

And that's why its pretty useless as a form of communication.

reply to post by JadeStar


I disagree.
I don't think anything is impossible.

I understand what you are saying, but it seems that now that they have observed entanglement in macroscopic items, there must be a way.

Two diamonds large enough to be picked up with your fingers. At room temperature.

I need to do some more reading.

Possibly a more promising avenue to explore for more rapid communications at stellar distances:
Radio waves and other forms of electromagnetism may spontaneously enter bulk space (somewhat analogous to the 'subspace' or 'hyper space' concept in science fiction) and then leave it again, allowing effectively faster than light communications.
We may be seeing an inverse form of this in long delay echos of our own radio signals, which are sometimes reported. In these cases, the signals may travel out into space for seconds or minutes, cut through bulk space, and re-emerge near a point in space where Earth will intercept them seconds or or minutes later, having moved some distance along its orbit.
If this scenario is correct, learning how to control the transit of radio waves through bulk space, and use them for effectively faster than light communications, should occupy our ingenuity for some time.

JayinAR
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I disagree.
I don't think anything is impossible.

I understand what you are saying, but it seems that now that they have observed entanglement in macroscopic items, there must be a way.

Two diamonds large enough to be picked up with your fingers. At room temperature.

I need to do some more reading.

Measuring the quantum state in macroscopic objects requires the same exchange of information as it would in a particle. If you'd like some suggestions of books on quantum entanglement and other weird physics written in a down-to-earth easily understood way let me know. I've got a good list.

Ross 54
Possibly a more promising avenue to explore for more rapid communications at stellar distances:
Radio waves and other forms of electromagnetism may spontaneously enter bulk space (somewhat analogous to the 'subspace' or 'hyper space' concept in science fiction) and then leave it again, allowing effectively faster than light communications.

Agreed.

We need to confirm the existence of things like wormholes. Even tiny ones no larger than a fraction of the width of an atom would permit this.

JadeStar

Ross 54
Possibly a more promising avenue to explore for more rapid communications at stellar distances:
Radio waves and other forms of electromagnetism may spontaneously enter bulk space (somewhat analogous to the 'subspace' or 'hyper space' concept in science fiction) and then leave it again, allowing effectively faster than light communications.

Agreed.

We need to confirm the existence of things like wormholes. Even tiny ones no larger than a fraction of the width of an atom would permit this.

ER = EPR.
There ya go.

reply to post by Ross 54


There exist some, extensions (if you will) to Maxwell's original work on electromagnetism. A part of his work that wasn't taught in schools that involves temporal effects of magnetic wavefronts under some conditions.

I've only seen a wee bit of these equations, had some difficulty understanding them, and little time to do any study. And, of course, this part of his work is very difficult to find. Though I hope that's changing...

Anyway...it seems that there may be some substance to the notion that if One transmits two identical signals, 180 degrees out of phase; that the resulting "nothingness" still contains some energy, and data, at the zero-crossings, and an altered temporal existence...in that it may "travel backwards" in time. I've always been a bit ore than skeptical about this, since I can see no way for this to occur (at present).

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Wow. I've always wanted to see the candidates list.

Do you know when they put this online?

| 1156 | target | 1 | 25358 | 1,588.397262 | Pul | 0.211 | 4.861 | 107 | Cand | PsPwrT | 31.0 | 6 |

| 1156 | target | 1 | 25358 | 1,588.400239 | Pul | 1.469 | 0.694 | 57 | Cand | PsPwrT | 22.3 | 3 |

| 1156 | target | 1 | 25358 | 1,588.467198 | CwP | -0.527 | 6.250 | 309 | Unkn | 2MnyCnd | NULL |



Question
In relation to the above, does anyone know what the target 25358 is? I know the data is old news but even to a layman like myself, having a quick look at the info generously posted by JadeStar, the target 25358 comes up a lot. Apologies for going over old ground but it just kind of stood out that's all.

edit on 21-6-2014 by Apso78 because: Hadn't finished typing...Oops!

originally posted by: Apso78

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Wow. I've always wanted to see the candidates list.

Do you know when they put this online?

| 1156 | target | 1 | 25358 | 1,588.397262 | Pul | 0.211 | 4.861 | 107 | Cand | PsPwrT | 31.0 | 6 |

| 1156 | target | 1 | 25358 | 1,588.400239 | Pul | 1.469 | 0.694 | 57 | Cand | PsPwrT | 22.3 | 3 |

| 1156 | target | 1 | 25358 | 1,588.467198 | CwP | -0.527 | 6.250 | 309 | Unkn | 2MnyCnd | NULL |



Question
In relation to the above, does anyone know what the target 25358 is? I know the data is old news but even to a layman like myself, having a quick look at the info generously posted by JadeStar, the target 25358 comes up a lot. Apologies for going over old ground but it just kind of stood out that's all.

It could be HIP 25358 (Hipparcos 25358) an F-class star about 300 light years away

FAR more likely is that the target # is the HabCat number. HabCat is a list of stars thought to be conducive to life on planets around them and was created by the SETI Institute's Jill Tarter and Margaret Turnbull.

I have a partial list of the Habcat and it stops around 17000.

What exactly are the qualities of a canditate signal?

Normally, I'm not one for Astronomical documentation, mainly cause I don't have the attention span for it.

What happens if any E.T civ. doesn't use the same frequencies that we use for communication. I mean the endurance and strength of radio signals could go for quite a ways. The odds of an E.t race blastin their own top 20 hits, or some diplomat extremists making some speech could be good, considering we did it.

However, any E.t that capable of interstellar travel with easy, would be using Ftl communications. We couldn't pick it up, or maybe even notice it. While they could pick any signal we sent.

Better off wishing on a shooting star.

I came across this report saying SETI have caught a signal in deep space that resembles mathematical code of some sort:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here is a quote from the report:

"We still need to run a lot more tests. But we have what seems to be a chain of Anglo-Saxon words which do not appear to be randomly produced. It appears to us to have no meaning, but the rudimentary sentences do contain a subject, noun and verb. There's no way it's a natural phenomenon. It does sort of make sense, but it doesn't, if you see what I mean"

a reply to: Sharted

That's really interesting but how verifiable is it? Just a rumor?

originally posted by: Sharted
I came across this report saying SETI have caught a signal in deep space that resembles mathematical code of some sort:

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Here is a quote from the report:

"We still need to run a lot more tests. But we have what seems to be a chain of Anglo-Saxon words which do not appear to be randomly produced. It appears to us to have no meaning, but the rudimentary sentences do contain a subject, noun and verb. There's no way it's a natural phenomenon. It does sort of make sense, but it doesn't, if you see what I mean"

Yep. The message is that it's over for England and they suck at soccer.

READ the entire article and you will get the joke... BRITS....always some bizarre humour : )

a reply to: NoRulesAllowed

Hah, I didn't even notice. Well spotted.