Which is preferable: Secular Education or Theocracy?

reply to post by Grimpachi


Abortions, drugs and disrespect are pervasive throughout our school system now.

You can go back to the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition to see the degredation that religion has caused.

But the basic premise remains.

Respect, ethics, morality, are a mainstay in todays religious practices.

I completely agree with the OP on this one. What about the rights of the child? Children should be given an overview of all religions, especially if they live in a multi-cultural society. Baptism and circumcision should be banned under the age of 18 as the the child is being forced to undergo a procedure which they have no understanding or control over. In my book it is a form of child abuse.

reply to post by beezzer

Abortions, drugs and disrespect are pervasive throughout our school system now.

Please tell everyone the age you wish to go back to where all those things did not exist.

You can go back to the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition to see the degredation that religion has caused.

Anytime civilization turns back the hands of progress it invites history to repeat itself, and the US has it's own checkered past.

Or you can look to the East where those things are prevalent NOW. One fundamentalist is no better than another.

But the basic premise remains.

Respect, ethics, morality, are a mainstay in todays religious practices.

Bigotry, inequality, prejudice, are also mainstays in todays religious practices.

Again morality does not stem from religion.

reply to post by Bone75

Are you denying that removing religion from schools and inserting prescription writing psychiatrists are part of this same agenda?

Yes, I am denying that.
It is not about "religion" or "psychiatrists" replacing "religion." Where did you come up with that idea?

Let's look at it again:

The standards promote equity by ensuring all students, no matter where they live, are well prepared with the skills and knowledge necessary to collaborate and compete with their peers in the United States and abroad..

The Common Core State Standards were written by building on the best and highest state standards in existence in the U.S.,

examining the expectations of other high performing countries around the world,

and careful study of the research and literature available on what students need to know and be able to do to be successful in college and careers.

No state in the country was asked to lower their expectations for their students in adopting the Common Core. The standards are evidence-based, aligned with college and work expectations, include rigorous content and skills, and are informed by other top performing countries. They were developed in consultation with teachers and parents from across the country so they are also realistic and practical for the classroom.

The federal government had no role in the development of the Common Core State Standards and will not have a role in their implementation. The Common Core State Standards Initiative is a state-led effort that is not part of No Child Left Behind and adoption of the standards is in no way mandatory.

Sounds to me like it was a group of interested teachers, parents, administrators and Governors. It is a voluntary program - aimed at removing the "zip code" elements of a public education.

And it's for English and Maths. So the kids, no matter where they live, have an equal shot. Does a kid "need" a certain religion to be successful in college and career? No. (But, in my opinion, they certainly ought to be aware of the different religions around the world, so they don't go out there ignorant of - or hating - everyone who isn't "insert religion name here".

That's why it's left to the parents/churches to provide the religious info.

Forty-five of the states have signed on, voluntarily. All except for Minnesota, Virginia, Alaska, Texas, and Nebraska. So, in the future, when an employer looks at a school transcript and sees "Texas" or "Alaska" - they might pass that student up for employment or even an interview, because those kids didn't get the "minimum best practice education" to set them up for intelligent, competent interactions in the global community.

What, again, is wrong with English and Math skills being equally emphasized in every school?

And where did you get these ideas of installing "psychiatrists" as part of it??

The above are from www.corestandards.org...

reply to post by Grimpachi


Morality may not stem from religion, but it is the only thing that still encourages it.

beezzer
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

Morality may not stem from religion, but it is the only thing that still encourages it.

I guess it depends on your definition of morality. Teaching young children that they will burn in hell fire if they do the wrong things isn't very moral in my opinion. This happens in religious schools up and down our country unfortunately.

reply to post by beezzer

but it is the only thing that still encourages it.

That's not true, beez. Parents encourage it; society encourages it. My kids were "unchurched", and our family is not religious - and not one of us has "hurt" another person on purpose.

Schools don't allow fist-fights; they are discouraging bullying and teaching kids to get to know one another - and to work toward the same standards of achievement. They are taught not to cheat, steal, lie, or scam other people.

wildtimes
reply to post by beezzer

 

but it is the only thing that still encourages it.

That's not true, beez. Parents encourage it; society encourages it. My kids were "unchurched", and our family is not religious - and not one of us has "hurt" another person on purpose.

Schools don't allow fist-fights; they are discouraging bullying and teaching kids to get to know one another - and to work toward the same standards of achievement. They are taught not to cheat, steal, lie, or scam other people.

Society nor school does not encourage morality anymore.

It encourages and promotes victimhood, the self, narcissism, self-gratification.

reply to post by beezzer

It encourages and promotes victimhood, the self, narcissism, self-gratification.

Not where I live!

o_O

reply to post by wildtimes


Look, the church, theology in general, isn't perfect.

But it stands head and shoulders above the tripe being handed off as education in todays schools.

reply to post by beezzer

But it stands head and shoulders above the tripe being handed off as education in todays schools.

I must not read the same news or watch the same talking heads as you, beez.

Some school districts are good - others aren't so good. Right now it depends on where one lives. Some kids have stable, loving home environments and WANT to learn. Some live in chaotic, stressful, maladaptive homes, and learning English and Math is at the bottom of their "needed to survive" list.

If every school offered the same best-practice standards, and the teachers were held up to that standard and given the same tools and teacher/student ratio regardless of the strength of the taxpayer base, then good teachers would be in ALL of the public schools instead of "being hired away" by PRIVATE schools...subsidized by people with MORE MONEY.

It would still depend on the student's ability to focus, learn, and try. A kid who might get shot on the way home any given day and speaks Ebonics when at home is not too concerned about "English" class.

Poverty and underprivilege is the result of runaway capitalism. People know that when they are looking to move to a certain area, to check the school districts. Imagine if every district offered the same curriculum? held the kids to same standards of achievement? had teachers that knew what they were doing??

We have to address the REAL problems that cause truancy, drop-out, failure, and further 'disenfranchisement'. Right now it's the disparity between the "haves" (whose taxes pay for better teachers, facilities, equipment, and tech), and the "have nots" who can't afford to pay for all those things.

Morality and common sense is handed down from good parents with good behaviour and life experience.

No christian school is going to teach that, they will just say prayers at the start and that is it, unless you believe reading words about how fire is "hot" will prevent them from experiencing it themselves.


when someone steals from me, i feel sad, depressed and angry, and if a normal human, i will realize if i do this to someone, i will make them feel the same.


Morality is not taught. it is learned.

wildtimes
If every school offered the same best-practice standards, and the teachers were held up to that standard and given the same tools and teacher/student ratio regardless of the strength of the taxpayer base, then good teachers would be in ALL of the public schools instead of "being hired away" by PRIVATE schools...subsidized by people with MORE MONEY.

And that is the truth. Private schools along with religious schools offer the best approach to education. There, you have the best teachers offering a stable curriculum unfettered by government dictates.

reply to post by beezzer

There, you have the best teachers offering a stable curriculum unfettered by government dictates.

Common Core is not a "government dictated" curriculum. It's a voluntary set of standards that states can CHOOSE to use; and it's meant to ensure that kids in poor areas get the same quality education as the kids in richer areas from PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Did you look at the sources I provided? Or read the excerpts?

wildtimes
reply to post by beezzer

 

There, you have the best teachers offering a stable curriculum unfettered by government dictates.

Common Core is not a "government dictated" curriculum. It's a voluntary set of standards that states can CHOOSE to use; and it's meant to ensure that kids in poor areas get the same quality education as the kids in richer areas from PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Did you look at the sources I provided? Or read the excerpts?

If you're endorsing Common Core, then no. One-size-fits-all works great in a drone factory, but fails utterly in the real world.

luciddream
Morality and common sense is handed down from good parents with good behaviour and life experience.

No christian school is going to teach that, they will just say prayers at the start and that is it, unless you believe reading words about how fire is "hot" will prevent them from experiencing it themselves.


when someone steals from me, i feel sad, depressed and angry, and if a normal human, i will realize if i do this to someone, i will make them feel the same.


Morality is not taught. it is learned.

Morality is also encouraged in certain areas and ignored in more public arenas.

reply to post by beezzer

Private schools along with religious schools offer the best approach to education.

What about the poor kids?
Just let them dig ditches and bus tables?

Education is guaranteed for every child - FAPE - Free Appropriate Public Education - to avoid having an ignorant underclass able only to perform menial tasks.

reply to post by wildtimes

The federal government had no role in the development of the Common Core State Standards and will not have a role in their implementation.

Really?

The federal government is paying to promote controversial testing and curriculum mandates called Common Core, and so are a collection of big-name private foundations and states. They are employing a number of strategies, but topping the list is training pro-Common Core teachers to multiply their support and hiring professional communications teams.

The federal government has provided all the operating funds—$330 million total—for two groups that will roll out national tests in spring 2015. These are the Partnership for Assessment of Readiness for College and Careers (PARCC) and Smarter Balanced (SBAC). Together, the groups’ proposed budgets submitted to the federal government indicated they would spend almost $5.5 million in taxpayer dollars to convince taxpayers their money has been well spent and should continue once the federal funds dry up in September 2014. Later documents show PARCC and SBAC have upped that amount to at least $9.9 million. (Source)

Sounds like they're kinda involved, after all.

reply to post by wildtimes

What about the poor kids?
Just let them dig ditches and bus tables?

Did you miss the middle four pages of the thread?

Stop discriminating against the poor -- give everyone vouchers and the opportunity to send their kids to the school of their choice.

reply to post by adjensen


That's not exactly an unbaised source, d. It's a rightwing outlet. You know that.

And private foundations have put in millions.

Foundations Spend Millions Promoting Common Core

CCCC’s founding members are the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Carnegie Corporation of New York, Helios Education Foundation, Leona M. and Harry B. Helmsley Charitable Trust, William and Flora Hewlett Foundation, Lumina Foundation, and the Charles and Lynn Schusterman Family Foundation.] news.heartland.org...

Now, again - what is wrong with all kids getting the same opportunities in classrooms regardless of their district's or neighborhood's "affluence"?

Looks to me like States have bought in to the CC standards, voluntarily, and the Fed Govt is helping them by request.