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originally posted by: Bybyots
With all of the chivalry and pageantry and jousting, it's easy even for me to forget that the Knights of The Round Table quest for the Holy Grail to heal Arthur, who has been gravely injured, so that the land will be healed.
originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
in fact only a few actual stories in circulation but infinite variations there of.
originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
The eternal battle of the forces of light over darkness, another fantasy, but one borne out of a need to understand those events within himself. Kind of like an attempt to project the inside out.
originally posted by: lostgirl
originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
in fact only a few actual stories in circulation but infinite variations there of.
Oh, I know - "Hero With a Thousand Faces" and all that...
...which actually leads us back on topic (in the recent 'direction' it had turned, at any rate), with the question of the 'control system' and it's use of 'story/archetypes' and what the possible 'goal' of such stuff - as those "dreams are made on" (sorry, couldn't resist) - might be...
I mean to say, with so many generations, upon generations, upon generations of the same 'stories' over and over again - doesn't it seem that by now the control system would have had some success at "growing" civilization into a more 'idealistic' reality?
Idealistic is atheism which is a natural state when you are born
the truth is that only the weak minded are affected, not us strong-willed free thinkers.
originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Uggielicious
Idealistic is atheism which is a natural state when you are born
and yet
en.wikipedia.org...
[uggielicious: I went to the wikipedia link and this is what it says in the opening paragraph: "The God gene hypothesis/ theory proposes that a specific gene (VMAT2) predisposes humans towards spiritual or mystic experiences. The idea has been postulated by geneticist Dean Hamer, the director of the Gene Structure and Regulation Unit at the U.S. National Cancer Institute, and author of the 2005 book The God Gene: How Faith is Hardwired into our Genes." It's a theory, an idea. Common sense, logic and reason argue against his proposal. Mental conditioning is real and not a theory or an idea. It works. Just ask the 918 people who died in the settlementdead of Jonestown under the direction of "Rev." Jim Jones. Or the Heaven's Gate group, or all of the cult victims. Not a single one of them knew anything about beliefs until they started to come in while they were young with impressive minds. You know, how a person will turn out is prevalent on who gets to their mind first. If the parents are not religious and educate the child properly an atheist will develop. Or parents who condition their children to not settle for less than evidence. As in the Jones massacre, the majority were blacks and it's safe to say that the majority of blacks are born into highly religious environments so they are easy to manipulate mentally. The "rev." Al Sharpton knows this and exploits it to give himself the rich life he enjoys. In reality, he and all of his ilk are like fleas o humanity.]
The God gene hypothesis is based on a combination of behavioral genetic, neurobiological and psychological studies. The major arguments of the hypothesis are: (1) spirituality can be quantified by psychometric measurements; (2) the underlying tendency to spirituality is partially heritable; (3) part of this heritability can be attributed to the gene VMAT2;[1] (4) this gene acts by altering monoamine levels; and (5) spiritual individuals are favored by natural selection because they are provided with an innate sense of optimism, the latter producing positive effects at either a physical or psychological level.
I know he has his critics but maybe things arent as black or white
[uggielicious: Things are black and white. Either you are like me, without a belief system which keeps me totally aware and free from the belief baggage that all believers carry and which affects their thinking, or you are a believer.]
the truth is that only the weak minded are affected, not us strong-willed free thinkers.
hmmm..weak willed thinkers while beleiving in a deity were also probably responsibible from eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge...and setting themselves free.
[uggielicious: Please stick to reality and don't weaken to fantasy.]
Your position in blaming war mongering on religion is partly correct. Of more significance is the quest for resources and power...religion is used to mask the real underlying reason
originally posted by: Uggielicious
Civilization cannot grow into a more 'idealistic' reality as long as religion rules for in order for civilization to progress mental conditioning has to end and there is no end in sight.
Idealistic is atheism which is a natural state when you are born but is soon corrupted by mental condition favoring religious beliefs.
While Vallee may have had other meanings to his "control system" the truth is that only the weak minded are affected, not us strong-willed free thinkers.
originally posted by: lostgirl
a reply to: RedCairo
I agree with you on every point and appreciate the logical, eloquent way you expressed it all..
originally posted by: Kapriti
a reply to: KilgoreTrout
Wow. You are fantastically and staggeringly incorrect in your assessment of Tolkien. I am stunned, but I suppose if one must, "sin boldly"!
originally posted by: KilgoreTrout
I am kind of spoilt for choice here and really not sure where to dive in. Decisions, decisions
Atheism is no less of a belief system than any other, and is becoming even more so, particularly in the US. It has a reactionary element to it, a rejection of the status quo and as such, it has far more in common with the early origins of Christianity which was, and perhaps should still be, a stand against oppression and an acceptance of persecution, of marytrdom as a means by which to most clearly demonstrate the evils inherent in organised, 'civilised' life. Atheism has in turn become as reactive to the oppressive nature of fundamentalist religion.
I disagree strongly that atheism is our 'natural state'. A child, without any prompting, believes without question and is naturally fearful of anything that falls outside of it's prior experience. How those fears are dealt with will shape it's perception of the world in future, but inherently, the child fears the unknown and the unseen. If we take that point as the basis of beliefs how they are structured into our sense of self and belonging, then we can perhaps appreciate that atheism is merely a restructuring of the way in which that primal fear is dealt with.
In today's world, with all our scientific and technological advances, much can be explained to our children without further enhancing their fear of the unseen. We are no longer forced to resort to stories and parables in order to explain how most of nature works, for example. Both the religious and the atheist can explain what thunder is in actuality, instead of attributing it to a god who dwells in the mountains using his hammer to bring forth rain, and that the reason people die is because of viral pathogens and bacterial infections, and not because of evil spirits carried in the summer winds. Science and technology therefore have undone the need for superstitions. This is an excellent development because it does away with the need to blame, it does away with the need to sacrifice and atone for what we perceived to be our role in bringing disease and pestilence upon ourselves by incurring the wrath of the gods. It is progress.
Beyond our own biosphere however, much is based within the realm of theorem. There may have been a Big Bang, which may have begun the process of expansion that led to the creation of this universe. What initiated that Big Bang is very much a dark area. The atheist, therefore, believes that science will eventually offer an explanation, while the religious believe that the explanation is God. At this stage, each viewpoint is equally valid.
The 'spiritual', on the other hand, don't honestly care either way. It is largely an irrelevancy. What the spiritual believe is that through refinement of the inner world or self, the outer world is given it's form. And it is this that is the basis, and origin, of all religions and is an extension of shamanic belief systems. Such spirit based religions have throughout history become corrupted as a result of the problems of administration of those beliefs and a mistaken need to homogenise. As well as, but as importantly...or perhaps even more importantly...a desire to rush things.