Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

Now I know that some folks in this thread take a minimalist
approach to this subject, in that they think of a few blokes
in 'black hats', possibly in conjunction with some weird
energy plasmas or something like that,

but I at least, and this is from a shamanic perspective,
see that all of us, both so-called 'active participants'
and so-called 'passive participants' are in this dance
together.

Now find -- if you want to minimalize / eliminate any
so-called 'global spiritual communication' (which I just
see as something akin to electromagnetic communication,
possibly on a DNA to DNA level),

but even so, you are still left with the victim / victimizer
feedback loop through cultural / internet transmission.

Truly, all of us, every last person on the planet, is affected
by, and affects everyone else via culture...

Every time one of us acts from fear / ignorance, we are
doing the work of the corrupted arc of history, which
keeps us prisoner and repeating these negative cycles,
apparently forever..

It all really went terribly wrong / off the rails, back when
the very first powerful monotheistic systems hit the
world to deceive --- and no, i'm not targeting Christianity;
Christianity is a Johnny come lately imitator of a thousand
years of prior monotheism.. a purely derivative sociological
phenomenon.. and not even the last 'monotheism bomb'
to hit us, as new monotheistic control systems are being
invented daily.

I hope that most of us in this thread had thought of something
like this long ago... but it's hard to escape our own personal
cognitive boxes.. and that's rather the point isn't it?

Kevin

originally posted by: The GUT

One of the interesting observations made by you and others is the connection of religion/mythology to the issue being discussed. Quite a few here have also mentioned the ever-present intelligence boys surrounding and invading ufology as a whole. (More on them later.)

One of the things that has been gnawing at me since I read through all of the posts here regards a little discussed aspect of MJ-12 and SERPO. Both have an interesting message seemingly encoded within them. That being that they offer a counter-explanation to the world's Abrahamic religions.

Could THAT have been an attempt to manipulate the control system? That is, to change the structure and ameliorate the differences caused by religious conflict? Plugging a meme into the feedback loop to influence the output?

That's interesting. Do you think that this was one of the ways Jacques Vallee contemplated to manipulate the feedback loop to learn more about the system? He never really elaborates on that, but I have tried to speculate on it myself. I thought it might open up a fruitful line of research. I have studied control systems, as they relate to electrical engineering, but this kind of approach never occurred to me before I read what Vallee said about it. I like the thought of using such a technical structured scientific approach to insert the right 'gain' into the feedback loop to maybe even control the controllers. Or maybe add a loop that wasn't there before. Well, even if it were long enough to get a look behind the curtain and catch them in their underwear so to speak...

@Gut:

One of the things that has been gnawing at me since I read through all of the posts here regards a little discussed aspect of MJ-12 and SERPO. Both have an interesting message seemingly encoded within them. That being that they offer a counter-explanation to the world's Abrahamic religions.

I don't comment much on this thread, but I certainly heartily enjoy reading it. But this I couldn't help but say something about.

What you hit on there, I think, Mr. Gut, is that it was an effort and still is to change the current paradigm, and with it, the general ambience of the environment we live within, which goes further than changing the paradigmic definitions and foundation that make up this environment.

However, it seems to me those military interests, because this is how I view SERPO and MJ12, and I think that is where they have originated, one then has to ask what they plan as a basis for life, having removed faith and concepts of Abrahamic religion. Shall we then place faith in knowledge and science, because this is the basis for what other intelligent life sharing space with us or even that they were our creators, as this is the question mankind looks for religion to answer…the question of where we came from.

If so, then what will they then base morality, or our good and potentially bad behavior surround? Don't misunderstand me, please, especially KPB, because yes I do believe we can behave in a moral manner without all that history or morality based on religion as our ticket to heaven, or a revered text telling us to be good….But will other intelligent life serve as enough to answer those inevitable questions for mankind---and I'm talking about the part of mankind that reads the Bible and hasn't a clue what the Control Loop refers to.

The military is all about rules, structure, and behavior being within those guidelines. It's pretty cut and dried. But even their oath that soldiers take is structured around belief in God and country. Good behavior is commended, recognized, rewarded. Bad behavior is punished. And so on.

I'm not sure I trust them introducing any new paradigm……
Regards,
Tetra50

a reply to: wtbengineer

I like the thought of using such a technical structured scientific approach to insert the right 'gain' into the feedback loop to maybe even control the controllers. Or maybe add a loop that wasn't there before. Well, even if it were long enough to get a look behind the curtain and catch them in their underwear so to speak...

Wouldn't you instead look to stop the loop, altogether, along with the controllers' control, so we could just move
forward, finally, with no loops whatsoever? And, of course, end the control and controllers altogether?
Tetra

Fascinating thread, one of the reasons I decided to pop in here. The control loop idea, not sure if I have a total handle on it but if you wish to stop it, wouldn't you have to remove or threaten to remove one of the parts of the loop that would be necessary for it to continue. Maybe I am way off track here and thinking too physical.

a reply to: tetra50

I don’t think you get my point. If you just remove the feedback loop it becomes an open loop system, like a washing machine or dryer. There is no feedback from the output to change what is being input to the system. They just run on timers according to a set program. An open loop system is rarely used in nature or in industry and human beings by nature are closed loop systems. An open loop system that has gain will ramp up and go out of control. If it has negative gain (loss, as real world systems do) it will come to a stop.

A closed loop system incorporates a feedback loop so that the output of the system can be fed back into the input and that then continuously affects the output to keep it under whatever set of constraints the operator desires. Think about a thermostat or cruise control. Whenever the temperature gets too high the monitored output temp gets fed back to the input so that the input increases to the air conditioner cooling down the environment. Or when your car starts slowing down that gets fed back to your input to open up the throttle so you go faster. This is a control system.

Whoever is pulling the strings here has programmed a certain feedback loop into our system which causes us to react certain ways depending on the new (altered) input that we receive. It seems to me that they are master planners and they have designed it so that there will be a complete societal change. I don’t think it is in question that this kind of change has happened over time. If we could somehow manipulate that feedback loop to change the logic string, then it would change the output from what the operator was expecting. Maybe then we could at least get a glimpse of what or who they are.

In the topic of discussion I don’t even think it is possible to remove the loop. All we can hope to do is to tweak the feedback loop to get a different output than the operators were expecting, and then monitor the result to see what they do. Then maybe we can catch them with their pants down and find something out about their true nature. I wish I could talk to Dr. Vallee about this, I'd like to know if he has any real ideas about doing this.

a reply to: wtbengineer
I do, in fact, understand, and was pushing you to get more technical. Your reply was excellent information. This is truly what life is now, and who knows if it was ever something less engineered, different….
Doesn't matter in the long run. Yes, I think your ideas of tweaking to get beyond the controller expectation to catch that glimpse of who they are, just to introduce, also, the element of surprise again…..as it seems to me one thing that's missing is the possibility of miracles, which is something outside what was planned for in the control loop, that would be wonderful, I think….

Yes, I wish you would talk to Vallee about that. I would love to hear that conversation.
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

My personal observation is that humans are
functionally food animals and incubators
for 'orbs' which humans have been trained
to believe are 'their souls'.

Now in my observation humans are more
than just this...at least potentially. ...but any
way you look at it...both genetically and
via psyops (religion) there is a massive
multi-pronged effort in play to keep us
in our 'cognitive collars' and to stay
distracted/controlled by the control loop.

It's very sad.

But yes...of course...we HAVE been modified
to crave being dominated and to yearn to
be dominated.

Yes there is a 'larger spiritual reality', but us
food animals / incubators don't seem
interested in it overall. We want to chew
our cud...hide in our cages and to be used.

IMHO

Kev

a reply to: tetra50

Most humans want to follow not lead.
Most humans accept lying and deception
(including self deception).

This is why we make perfect cannon
fodder.

Until a sizeable percentage of humans
throw off these shackles we will remain
prisoners of all the nonsense we all
discuss on ATS and all the other
nonsense we don't even realize yet.

As far as catching the controllers in the
act.....much of that has been done...
nearly every day....but human nature
en masse takes millenia to change..

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

But yes...of course...we HAVE been modified to crave being dominated and to yearn to be dominated.

Yer like the poster-child for half-truths, KPB. You might check to see if the domain, "www.halftruths.org" has been scooped up yet, I think you might have a future there.

We have been modified to work in unison, that's the only lesson.

When that's the only lesson, and the pupil isn't getting it because they are being obstinate, then it might feel like one has been placed in a corner facing a wall (Plato's Cave) til they get it. And then you have to consider the ones that don't want to get it because it will # up their side-deal.

Look, you're right, the "harness" is limiting, but we asked for it to be like that; there are no perpertrators but us, all of us.

You may have pulled the idea out of the "ether", but on the other hand, you know I've read enough to know that your "parasite" thing is also derivative, of Theosophy, for one example.

Theosophist.

a reply to: Bybyots

Sociological studies have been done which
state that most people are followers
and less than 1% are leaders.

Fyi I don't find much merit in some people's
posts but I don't make a point of getting in
their face about their views.....we all have
our own views....and this is a public internet
chat forum....right?

Also fyi, I also find its best to just ignore posts
that have little or no merit. I can recommend
that strategy. ... try it on me if you feel that way!

Have a nice day!

Kev

a reply to: Bybyots

Well....we are almost kindred spirits then!

My observation is that most human thought
reeks of self delusion, unexamined beliefs,
cultural meme and psyop introdoctrination,
etc.

The things I say are due to nearly 50 years
of direct experience....now I *may* be
somewhat delusional. ... my theories
observations and 'facts' may be wrong
in part or in whole.....

but one thing im definitely NOT, insofar
as I know is 'derivative' of ANY system
in the world. ...except perhaps tiny bits
here and there ... no man is an island
you know!

In particular I loathe ALL theosophy....
and when I was young actively opposed
it in person in some of the high ranking
theosophists faces....risking my life
to do so. ..

So im a bit puzzled how you view my
observations as 'derivative'.

I do not 'believe in' souls, higher selves,
chakras, masters, or any of that control
loop psyop stuff.

Now I do have a limited number of
'spiritual appearing' observations
based upon (presumably) upon
poorly understood laws of physics. ..

and I keep nearly all of that to myself.

you.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well....we are almost kindred spirits then!

Yeah I know, it's weird.

The idea of the chakra system being parasitic came from a painting that was made clairvoyantly in the 20s by a woman (Theosophist) whose name I have momentarily forgotten. The painting is called "What a human being is". The idea was picked up in the late 90s by L.K. Jadczyk who made much of it.

I'm surprised that you didn't appear on the thread concerning the "zeal" chakra. You know what that one is, don't you?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I do not 'believe in' souls, higher selves, chakras, masters, or any of that control loop psyop stuff.

Well why not? It's all true.

It's not really complicated. It's a system, a machine, with an organization of parts that all work together to make it function.

If you give the carburetor in your car a name, and invoke that name in to your engine housing every time you start the car, does it have any added effect, or does the car just start like it always does and you, or I, have just effectively "gilded the lily" by adding the name and invocation.

Parts is parts, KPB.

Anything beyond that, and the same mistake is made that Iamblichus made, the same mistake that Plotinus tried to rail against, ineffectively, before he died.

You start naming it all and pretending like the carburetor is anything but a carburetor and you become what?

A Gnostic?

There's no such thing.

a reply to: Bybyots

The reason I came to the opinion that 'chakras'
were parasitic is that after I cleansed my
unconscious mental/emotional space
the delusion that I might have 'chakras'
like the theosophists/new agers fell away

and I came to perceive that I had been fed
upon, very subtly, via the 'chakra delusion'.

For most of my life I have avoided reading
such material as I sensed it was at best toxic
and at worst some cosmic evil snow job.

I've never heard of your references.

I am reading such material now.....looking
for clues about the control system...how
it was implemented via spirituality and
religion...and other attack vectors.

Again...to foster being on the same page...
being autistic and an american indian
in part...ive been awash with various
perceptions and phenonema my entire
life.....and ive been researching this
stuff EXPERENTIALLY my entire
life. ..from scratch....but I take
NOTHING from spiritual books
insofar as I can tell.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

but I take NOTHING from spiritual books insofar as I can tell.

Yeah,

I'm starting to believe you. Boy, we do have stuff in common. Michigan? Ojibwe?

Okay, I did the same thing, and when I got in there they didn't drop away, they just showed themselves for what they are: a connection to all of it. It's like each one is a player piano for its attributes and will play the whole tune and then start repeating it until one pushes the stop button.

In other words, the thing referred to as the "akashic record" is not "out there" it's in there.

They're real, they are just mechanical, they record your stuff on top of all the other stuff, that's why it seems like there is a bottom, but there's not.

It's huge in there.

a reply to: Bybyots

Well-

I do observe 'emergent properties' that have
'apparent spiritual properties.

But I refrain from naming those with
Theosophical designators as then
id be psy-opped like 99.99999999%
of spiritual and religious people are.

I have nearly all the 'answers' that at one
time I craved....put in the work to get them..

But other people have to do their own
research....my 'answers' are mostly just
for me....took most of a lifetime to
become liminal enough for things
to make sense.....

Now I mostly just want to end my life
with my fiance and just take care of
a few loose ends..

But still enjoy chatting...

Kev

a reply to: Bybyots

Minnesota. Lakota Sioux.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Mm, I've got it on both sides but the only side that can be specific is the maternal side and it's Ojibwe. I play a mean flute.