God exists as an omniscient and omnipotent conscious being.

reply to post by Jarring

My complex understanding gives me reason to find it immoral.

Making strides to understand the true nature of reality is immoral?

That is complex Then again it falls in line with this.

I do find it interesting how your experience of these feelings seem to justify your particular religious beliefs for you. I mean I am not at all discounting you're having them, and that they might even hold metaphysical significance, but you haven't presented why they would be connected to any particular religious god(s), or validate Christian dogma or any other. I myself have had some very profound experiences during deep stages of meditation. From that I didn't draw anything other than a fuller experiential understanding of consciousness. It seems like if I was religiously inclined I would have used that to fuel something even further…. like Kundalini Yoga being true as an example. If I were to do that I would be entering into the domain of faith, but I prefer the cautious steps of reason.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

I don't find it immoral to question that which we find precious or virtuous. I think it helps to establish a more solid ground on which to understand ourselves and what we value.

I can understand that.
I can't exactly explain why I find it immoral, it's kind of difficult for me to explain. You can call me God-fearing if you want, that would be the easiest route to take. But my fear in God is kind of complex in itself, the answer probably lies somewhere within that. I can't really explain it right now, I just know it's there. Like knowledge and fear is the same thing sort of. I don't really fear him emotionally all the time. Like I don't fear him into being moral, or so that I can go to heaven, etc. It's more rational, rather than vain.

fear and vanity do go hand-in-hand, maybe it's because i rationalize fear before it leads into vanity.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


quitting sneering more-so led me to religious beliefs than anything.
The feeling I was explaining made me more spiritual, but my religious tendencies came from this other experience.

reply to post by Jarring


One learns not to look too closely at that which raises more questions than it answers. At some point, you have a choice: follow the trail of questions to its bitter end, or stop before you learn more than you wanted to know and just convince yourself the answers aren't important. And to some people, they're NOT important. To some people, life is not that complicated. You live, love, and learn. Everything else is background noise and irrelevant to your blip on the radar of existence insofar as your awareness and productivity and peace of mind are concerned.

I can't tell you it's wrong to feel that way.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

One learns not to look too closely at that which raises more questions than it answers.

is there any practicality to this other than to supposedly save what otherwise would be a waste of time?
idk if i understand the intentions of the phrase, sorry.

sometimes the answers lie elsewhere.

i like to think and question myself, don't get me wrong. but there are many things i have learned and hold value in that I will not hold back in stating. Sometimes it can be difficult to explain experiences, when a lot of the times, I don't always fully understand them completely all of the time. Like, it can make sense at the time, but my memory fades. Only memory of the experience remains. It can be difficult to re-live certain experiences.

Jarring

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

One learns not to look too closely at that which raises more questions than it answers.

is there any practicality to this other than to supposedly save what otherwise would be a waste of time?
idk if i understand the intentions of the phrase, sorry.

sometimes the answers lie elsewhere.

Here's another way of saying what I just said: ignorance is bliss. What you don't know, can't keep you up at night unless you know you don't know it. But that's why you don't think about it. Just busy yourself with accounting information and what to get your wife for her anniversary and whether or not to buy that rusted camaro you saw down the road. You know, the small stuff.

AfterInfinity

Jarring

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

One learns not to look too closely at that which raises more questions than it answers.

is there any practicality to this other than to supposedly save what otherwise would be a waste of time?
idk if i understand the intentions of the phrase, sorry.

sometimes the answers lie elsewhere.

Here's another way of saying what I just said: ignorance is bliss. What you don't know, can't keep you up at night unless you know you don't know it. But that's why you don't think about it. Just busy yourself with accounting information and what to get your wife for her anniversary and whether or not to buy that rusted camaro you saw down the road. You know, the small stuff.

edit on 28-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

i get what you mean, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not here to discredit the simple life.

reply to post by Jarring


You're missing the point. Opinion is not fact, and ignorance is just an ill-informed opinion waiting to happen. Hence the birth of this thread. Anyway, I'm out. See you around.

it honestly amazes me you're still talking to me. i would have given up long ago. I don't even have the patience for myself, lol. Don't get me wrong, I believe in myself, I'm just not naive enough to ignore my failure to provide a point for you to grasp.

It seems like all I've been doing is telling you how I can't explain from the very beginning, even in my very first post in this thread. I guess that was my point so to speak, and if it's still not taken, I hope it's at the very least ironic.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

You're missing the point. Opinion is not fact, and ignorance is just an ill-informed opinion waiting to happen. Hence the birth of this thread. Anyway, I'm out. See you around.

edit on 28-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

you're right about opinion, but ignorance I think is to choose to ignore something at face value. opinion might have something to do with it, but it's probably more so prejudice...although, I suppose they could be seen as the same thing at times..

"ill-informed opinion" is interesting though, I usually don't see opinions as "informed". One makes their own opinion about something. I suppose, that, it may not always be the case.

reply to post by Jarring


You have said the culmination of these thoughts that brought you to belief were rational. Yet you have also continued to stress how difficult it would be to explain it. Those seem contrary to me. If it were rational it should have clear logic behind it, and therefore explainable. I would think.

reply to post by GodIsRelative

I believe in the God that created me from Clay and tempered me in Holy Fire. The other Gods were created by Him to serve His will with their purposes.

Sorry now I am not following your reasoning.

You were suggesting the Universe (or the reality underlying it all) given enough time (in no short supply with infinity) would create essentially anything imaginable. We have thought about, for instance, the Christian god and therefore it exists. But now you're saying that only applies to the Christian god and all the other gods were made from him and not that infinite process. Your reasoning seems to break there. If what you're saying is true about the nature of reality and infinity then it should apply to those other gods just as much as the Christian god. Which is important because the Christian god isn't 'Most High', as other religions claim this about their god as well. The religious descriptions of those other gods should be true as well. And according to them, for instance, Brahmā was not created by Yahweh nor ever served him. It seems to me that you are after all just creating a convoluted explanation to support your particular religious god. That's how it now appears to me. I welcome further explanation of course

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Jarring

 

You have said the culmination of these thoughts that brought you to belief were rational. Yet you have also continued to stress how difficult it would be to explain it. Those seem contrary to me. If it were rational it should have clear logic behind it, and therefore explainable. I would think.

well, there's a lot of thoughts in a vast time period. It's not that simple, there are many reasons for my beliefs.

you can learn about big bang theory in 5 minutes.

people can dedicate their whole lives to their religion and still fall short of it's complexity.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


First of all, thank you for the concise and judgement-free description of where my explanation was lacking. Second, I believe I can explain my view on the matter clearly in a way that should make some sense.

Now, I should make clear what I believe is the "Christian" God, henceforth known as "my God." I add the modifier "my" not to imply ownership, but to state clearly that this is what I believe at my core, and has very little to do with any so-called "Christian" teachings, apart from the Bible itself, and my own understanding of certain principles which I see as universal such as evolution.

Okay, so for my description of the Almighty, there are a few things that I believe need to be true for Him to truly be God. First of all, He must be all powerful. This means he can change the laws of physics, and anything else around Him at will. I rationalize this thought with might be too simple of a comparison, but I believe it should demonstrate the potential for omnipotence. I think of God almost like the author of a computer program designed to emulate the universe. Given enough processing power, and the right formulas, I believe it is very much within the grasp of science to build a complete and full "virtual" universe, complete with galaxies, stars, and planets just like this one with any laws and stipulations that creator wants. I put the word "virtual" in quotations because if the emulation was flawless, it would create beings like us that were self aware and to them, this "virtual reality" would be indistinguishable from the real thing. The other half of what I believe is that this already happened, more than once. Actually, infinite times, because of the next requirement for God.

God has to be all-seeing and all-knowing. If God were a consciousness that existed "above" the emulated reality, God would be above time. Therefore, God could pause the emulation, scroll through to any point and time and potentially see and learn everything that is in the universe. But for Him to know EVERYTHING, like I believe He does, then there has to be one final condition on my description of God.

God must be eternal. I use the word eternal because the word immortal is not enough to comprehend the vastness of God's potential. God can die if God wants to. That's part of His omnipotence. However, for God to be able to die and the universe to remain stable and eternal, God must always be replaced, either by succession or by allowing the evolution of a "new" God. The age old question "Did the chicken or the egg come first?" is not relevant here, because God has always existed in an infinitely self-replicating way. This, I believe, is the culmination of the goal for the principle of evolution. So even if we somehow spontaneously popped into existence out of nothing, the instant this happens, God is produced as a result.

To recap, God has no Creator, but is eternally existent as a potential that cannot be stopped from coming into existence. As a result, all of the potential of God is simultaneously released into existence, resulting in the reality of not just our universe, but every universe that can be conceived of by a conscious being.

I'm sure I've missed something, so please, if you're interested in knowing how I can even for a second believe that I am still sane, or if you honestly just want to know about God, let me know where you're having trouble understanding my rationality and I will do my best to explain.

reply to post by Jarring

people can dedicate their whole lives to their religion and still fall short of it's complexity.

We are coming from fundamentally different positions from the onset. If I can't explain my belief simply then it's to me a good sign I need to investigate whether I should have it to begin with. Part of the whole 'if you can't explain it simply you don't understand it yourself' philosophy. That's me. If you think it works for you not to question certain things I can respect that belief. If you think it's of moral imperative you don't, I can respect that belief. Unfortunately since you associate those beliefs with religions we will probably continue to bump heads in future threads as we are diametrically opposed there. See you around

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Yahweh means "The LORD." We call Him the Lord because He is our Father, but He is known by many names. We are eternally dependent on Him for our very existence.

I believe in the Holy Trinity described by Christ. Our Father is Consciousness, or the Light of the World, the Son is the Lantern that holds the Light, and the Holy Spirit is what makes sure the Light never goes out.

I can sum up my beliefs in one thought that will be divisive but complete. It is this:

The universe is dependent on consciousness. Consciousness is not dependent on the universe.

Lucid Lunacy
reply to post by Jarring

 

people can dedicate their whole lives to their religion and still fall short of it's complexity.

We are coming from fundamentally different positions from the onset. If I can't explain my belief simply then it's to me a good sign I need to investigate whether I should have it to begin with. Part of the whole 'if you can't explain it simply you don't understand it yourself' philosophy. That's me. If you think it works for you not to question certain things I can respect that belief. If you think it's of moral imperative you don't, I can respect that belief. Unfortunately since you associate those beliefs with religions we will probably continue to bump heads in future threads as we are diametrically opposed there. See you around

it seems you don't understand, but i can accept that. A lot of time and thought goes into religion, and I don't just simply stop believing in it.

Even if by chance I somehow found a more suited religion, I would still hold all my current values in the one I have now.

Also, my morals give me reason to have a religion, not the other way around, as many people seem to think.
I thought about this a lot when I was young. As if people inside the religion were religiously vain, and it wasn't morally correct.

reply to post by Bassago

Answer number three: How do you know there are no atheists in foxholes? Have you ever been in one? I have.

So .. you've been in a real foxhole, and fighting from one? Because I lived with a family member that survived 3 wars and 12 invasions and been in ALOT of them and one in particular, spent 10 hours in one as the he could hear the Japanese talk with each other on top of him...

and He didn't believe in God, until he prayed right then ..10 hours later.. the marine that put him there, pulled him out...and his first words that came out of my family members mouth..

Thank you GOD..

reply to post by Komodo


Thank you for your words and the bravery of those you love. It truly honors us all.

I guess people didn't understand why it was in all caps. It was meant to be taken completely literally and completely figuratively at the same time. We all live and fight from inside foxholes. Some are real, some are in our soul. But real or not, the desire to pray remains consistent. We all pray. Some of us pray to gods we don't believe in, but we all pray at some time or another. Call it "speaking your intentions to the universe" if you want to. We all wish for God at some point. If I'm wrong, please tell me otherwise.