God exists as an omniscient and omnipotent conscious being.

my favorite thing about Atheists is that they do not believe in God, yet they blame him for everything.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


I understand what he is saying. God, unicorns, flying monkeys, all things exist that we can imagine at least they exist in our imagination which means we are god. He isn't saying an actual god exists in reality that has more power than us only the concept of god exists and for those that believe in such things give up their power to that concept.

reply to post by Grimpachi

I didn't infer the same. That was the nature of my questions to him. You seem to be saying, as I suggested in my questions, that the reality of god was dependent on consciousness presupposing the idea. One I suppose could argue objectivity within those constraints but I don't think he was doing so. I think he intends to say it's objective in the ultimate sense of it.

GodIsRelative
Logic is for bitches. God exists because God exists. This is the closest thing to objective truth in the universe. Belief and disbelief has nothing to do with it.

God exists despite logic. Despite belief! God transcends it. It's objective truth. Belief and logic doesn't factor in.

How Grimpachi is that him not saying god exists outside of our imagination and thought?

I think that's precisely what he means to say.

reply to post by Jarring

my favorite thing about Atheists is that they do not believe in God, yet they blame him for everything.

lol.

Atheists don't blame a being they don't believe exists.

When atheists make arguments towards the morality of biblical gods they do so hypothetically to make points about morality.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


So basically neither logic nor reason have anything to do with his claims. Just another child screaming for santa insisting for his afterlife toys.

reply to post by Grimpachi


Yes.

It seems so.

I think metaphysics should be explored. I think it's pertinent to do so. We should not abandon reason in the pursuit of truth though. Which seems to be the hallmark of religious thought. The majority of it anyways.

Jarring
my favorite thing about Atheists is that they do not believe in God, yet they blame him for everything.

Pfft. I blame us for everything.

Grimpachi
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

I understand what he is saying. God, unicorns, flying monkeys, all things exist that we can imagine at least they exist in our imagination which means we are god. He isn't saying an actual god exists in reality that has more power than us only the concept of god exists and for those that believe in such things give up their power to that concept.

no, op is saying that God is a distinct entity. Op also thinks logic is for losers. Do the math.

first of all, the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

secondly, it's probably best if you avoid trying to prove God exists. Mainly because most people come to understand God personally through a series of culminating events and thoughts.

You can lead people to salvation, but they must come to it by their own terms. There is no point in arguing the existence of God. Most of the time, it is ill-conceived and a waste of time. Curiosity is fine until it comes to the point of aggravation. People are better off concerning themselves with the bondage of sin, rather than seeking God directly. Besides, it's easier to know sin. God would literally blow your mind beyond recognition if you were able to fathom Him.

reply to post by Jarring


So you have a statement. ''God is real.' Now you test that statement. How do you test a god?

Afterinfinity, thou shalt not test the Lord thy God, but He sure can test me!

Lucid Lunacy, I'm sorry for the unclear way I've been getting my points across. I think I can simply explain what I believe so you will understand. I can imagine ten billion scenarios where a "God" like entity is born. In all of these plausible sounding scenarios, I assume that there is at least one that has happened. If "God" can be born, then it should stand to reason that "God" must be born at some place and time in the probably infinite time and space of the universe. And basically that's the cornerstone of my faith. If it can happen, then it must have happened somewhere at sometime and it only takes One. If I take this for exactly what it's worth, and that's a reason to start looking, then I start to see evidence of "God" everywhere. In my past, in my present, and in all of the human experience. Based on what evidence there is in the sacred tales of the past, and based on what I've seen with my own eyes, I form theories about God and I test them. The more I do, the more I learn. The better my theories get. The better I feel day after day.

Do you understand now?

reply to post by GodIsRelative

Afterinfinity, thou shalt not test the Lord thy God, but He sure can test me!

How do you know something is true if you don't test it? I want to test gravity, I jump. I want to test the effects of fire on human flesh and I burn myself. I want to test what water does to minerals, so I throw a rock in a lake. I want to know what a god is and where it comes from, so I come up with ways to test my assumptions until I know what's fact. And that involves testing what a god does. That's how science works. That's how we know anything about our world. You test it, you see what happens, then you test your conclusions, then you test the tests. It's hard, but it's worth it. You take all the evidence in front of a board and get a Nobel prize for answering the most debated question in the history of man.

Instead of, you know, making assumptions.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


you don't test God. just think about how you feel when you're tested. now apply it to God, and think about how it sounds.

reply to post by Jarring

you don't test God. just think about how you feel when you're tested. now apply it to God, and think about how it sounds.

Are you saying you've never tested your parents? Are you saying you've never tested anyone you suspected of lying to you? You never tested anyone as a child to see if you had anything in common or if they didn't like you? I find that very hard to believe.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

you don't test God. just think about how you feel when you're tested. now apply it to God, and think about how it sounds.

Are you saying you've never tested your parents? Are you saying you've never tested anyone you suspected of lying to you? You never tested anyone as a child to see if you had anything in common or if they didn't like you? I find that very hard to believe.

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I didn't say that. I'm saying I wouldn't test God.

GodIsRelative
Argument number one: If there is no God, then how does anything exist?

Something does not spontaneously come from nothing, or if it does, this phenomena has not been observed anywhere in nature.

Well, I didn't see you conceived nor given birth to. As far as I am concerned, you cannot exist, as there surely is no way you simply "came into being".

So, based off of your reasoning, you do not exist either.

Excellent reasoning, you've got there. No, really....great thought process. How long did it come take for you to come up with that? Oh...you "read" it in a "book" written by "men". Gotchya!

Also, WHAT created God ? OH..."he" just "exists" ?

So, God can just "pop" into existence, but nothing else can....right....

S&F!!!!! (no, not really)

Jarring

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Jarring

 

you don't test God. just think about how you feel when you're tested. now apply it to God, and think about how it sounds.

Are you saying you've never tested your parents? Are you saying you've never tested anyone you suspected of lying to you? You never tested anyone as a child to see if you had anything in common or if they didn't like you? I find that very hard to believe.

edit on 26-1-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I didn't say that. I'm saying I wouldn't test God.

Then you can't really say you know much about him, right? You're told what he can do and you just assume he's doing it. You don't test him to see if the stories are true. And that's why faith is so important. I mean, don't get me wrong. I have a little faith when I'm crossing the street on my bike. Faith in myself, not a supernatural entity. Point is, you're inspired. Good for you. But your inspiration is shared with millions of other people, some in very influential places in society. And their virtues infect everyone around them, teaching our kids, our future leaders, to admire some very questionable values. That's what I'm concerned about. And here you're telling me you don't even bother testing the cause you've dedicated yourself to. How many people don't test it? How many people just assume. And then they assume that their virtues are flawless. You know, that's what bugs me about the 4,000 different denominations. That's 4,000 different shades of morality. They each exalt a slightly different face of the same general concept, but just one slight discrepancy is enough to warrant an entirely new church.

Point being, you're making assumptions about something that has never been absolute. Something that can be interpreted in so many different ways that you're just plunging your hand into the hat and yanking out one of 4,000 variations of the same perfect "truth". That's not something you want to just toss up in the air. Oh, and one other thing - if you're not testing it, how can you say it's the perfect truth?

Jarring
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

you don't test God. just think about how you feel when you're tested. now apply it to God, and think about how it sounds.

Holy FRIJOLES....

You honestly cannot be saying that, can you?

Please...step away from the kool-aid....

"you don't test 1. just think about you feel when you're tested. now apply it to 1, and think about how it sounds".






I'm out of here folks. Have fun. Drink some more grape juice (which is in place of wine) and little bleached white flour crackers...because, you know, during the time, BECOME the BLOOD and FLESH of CHRIST....



Ciao!



P.S. - But hold on a moment...if grape juice and crackers simply BECOME the BLOOD and FLESH of CHRIST....isn't that kinda what the original bullet point of this thread is speaking out against in the first place? Nothing "just happens".....nothing in NATURE, at least...Hmmmmmm.....most confusing.....

i would appreciate it if you were to refrain from putting words in my mouth. I don't believe I can get you to understand God, as I have already originally stated. I don't know why you insist on questioning me when my original statement was intended to reduce the relevance of this argument.