what is your DEEN(religion)?

reply to post by logical7

So you are saying that their extreme selfish behaviour has nothing to do with a materialistic belief and assumption that they would be answerable to none and just die and rot in their graves?

That is correct. Politicians are often very outspoken "religious" types.

Our last would-be president (Mitt Romney) was a billionaire Wall-Streeter capitalist vulture, who was also a "dedicated Mormon."

The Rich Catholic who threatened the Pope with not making any more 'tithes' was another example.

I never said that religious people cannot be greedy,selfish etc but then they come under the category of hypocrites.

Good. We agree on that, then.

You were trying to point out that the 'greedy, evil corporations' were nonreligious. Correct? Obviously that is false.
Like I asked: What do you follow regarding USA politics? Anything?
We are on the brink of revolt over here in "my place."

Do you need some sources to learn more about what is going on over here????

Did you not read my earlier posts?

FlyersFan

logical7
How ridiculous to assume ...

logical7
Isn't that a wild assumption? It's very pagan too.

You ask people what their 'way of life' is ... but then when they answer, you mock them. What is 'pagan' to you, isn't to others. What is 'wild assumption' to you, may not be in reality. What is 'ridiculous' to you, isn't to others (reminder- most of the planet thinks your religion is 'ridiculous') If there is going to be a thread asking people what their 'way of life' is, I would hope it wouldn't just be used as a vehicle for a preaching agenda.

That being said .... what's my 'way of life'?? It changes as I learn more and grow. Which is healthy. Hanging onto old beliefs which prove to be wrong or 'stunted in growth' ... hanging onto them out of guilt or fear or indoctrination ... is bad for the spirit. Change and grow as we learn more ... or the soul withers.

edit on 1/27/2014 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

So I cannot express my opinions about things that don't make sense to me and question them?

You tell me is it better to directly pray to God or use agents/mediators/channels?

If the religion I follow fits rationally more in the discussion going on then it's you who see it as agenda.

About your Deen. you say that you constantly modify your beliefs as you get more knowledge.
So do you also change your way of life based on that? No matter how inconvenient it is?

Say for example that you know that interest based banking is hurtful to people ultimately so have you stopped participating in it? Or I am about to hear justifications..

reply to post by wildtimes


You think politicians are truly religious? I know what you would say. They can disown their mother if required to win.

Do you seriously believe that people's choices don't get affected by the consequences of their actions?

A person who believes in karma would behave the same as one who doesn't?

You never saw people becoming ideal citizens in presence of a cop and the opposite later?

reply to post by wildtimes

I am not really keeping track of World events from some time now but yes you do need a revolution and I just hope that people are smart enough to not fall to the wolf while trying to escape a lion.

reply to post by logical7

I am not really keeping track of World events from some time now but yes you do need a revolution and I just hope that people are smart enough to not fall to the wolf while trying to escape a lion.

Well. That explains a lot. Thanks for confessing (we in 'my place' say: 'Fessin' up').

logical7, if you are not watching day-to-day events in the world, you really are not equipped to talk about these things.

Yes, we see what 'globalization' and 'capitalism' is doing - and we are not happy about it. Yes, in general, once the idea gets moving, people are smart enough to not fall for it. That's what I've been trying to tell you.

A lot of us are paying attention, and shooting our mouths off - thankfully we are still allowed to do so.

reply to post by logical7

You think politicians are truly religious?

They 'profess' that they are; and journalists investigate them. Romney was a classic example. Obama has been accused of being a 'Muslim' - Ted Cruz is a rabid Christian who wants to bring down the entire system.

I know what you would say. They can disown their mother if required to win.

That is exactly correct. But that doesn't mean they are nonreligious. They are hypocrites; just like you said.

reply to post by wildtimes

Then is it right to criticize a religion by pointing out the bad actions of the hypocrites in it???

reply to post by logical7

Then is it right to criticize a religion by pointing out the bad actions of the hypocrites in it???

Yes. It is right to criticize a religion that isn't clear enough - has too many 'loopholes' and 'interpretations' - for all of the participants to behave honestly. If there is any room for "bending" the faith to allow for atrocities, then it's a weak premise to begin with.

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

Then is it right to criticize a religion by pointing out the bad actions of the hypocrites in it???

Yes. It is right to criticize a religion that isn't clear enough - has too many 'loopholes' and 'interpretations' - for all of the participants to behave honestly. If there is any room for "bending" the faith to allow for atrocities, then it's a weak premise to begin with.

So by that logic its equally right to criticize democracy, secularism etc as they are also used to commit atrocities right?

When your government bombed Iraq for oil, control, finding new consumers for corporations etc and did it in the name of spreading democracy and freedom, I did not see you criticizing democracy!!!

So why does your logic work one way when religion is involved and another way when it's not?

I wonder if you are biased against religions. Umm...

Maybe you are!!!

It's very interesting that you have so high expectations from religions that if they are true then they should magically turn the world into a place that you want and only then you would believe in the one which manages that feat!
It's nothing different from an atheist saying that if God is real then He should solve all problems and end all sufferings.

logical7
So I cannot express my opinions about things that don't make sense to me and question them?

You are MOCKING peoples beliefs after asking for those people to express them.
You call their beliefs ridiculous .. and yet most of the planet knows that your beliefs are ridiculous.
So much for your theory on the other thread that people can 'co-exist peacefully' as long as they
believe they return to their creator after death. Case closed on that one.

So do you also change your way of life based on that? No matter how inconvenient it is?

Yes.

Say for example that you know that interest based banking is hurtful to people ultimately so have you stopped participating in it? Or I am about to hear justifications..

You are pushing your belief system - Sharia. You think it's from God. It's not.
There is nothing wrong with interest based banking. That's common sense business practice.
Free market. People borrow knowing that they have to pay back more than they borrowed.
If they don't want to agree to the terms .. then don't borrow the money. Very simple.

reply to post by logical7

So by that logic its equally right to criticize democracy, secularism etc as they are also used to commit atrocities right?

Yep, it is. I do.

When your government bombed Iraq for oil, control, finding new consumers for corporations etc and did it in the name of spreading democracy and freedom, I did not see you criticizing democracy!!!

I wasn't a member here when that happened. ATS did not exist. And I DID protest it at the time. Just because you didn't hear me or see me doing it doesn't mean I did not.

Again, look at my threads in Social Issues to "see me criticizing" my own country.

FlyersFan

logical7
So I cannot express my opinions about things that don't make sense to me and question them?

You are MOCKING peoples beliefs after asking for those people to express them.
You call their beliefs ridiculous .. and yet most of the planet knows that your beliefs are ridiculous.
So much for your theory on the other thread that people can 'co-exist peacefully' as long as they
believe they return to their creator after death. Case closed on that one.

So do you also change your way of life based on that? No matter how inconvenient it is?

Yes.

Say for example that you know that interest based banking is hurtful to people ultimately so have you stopped participating in it? Or I am about to hear justifications..

You are pushing your belief system - Sharia. You think it's from God. It's not.
There is nothing wrong with interest based banking. That's common sense business practice.
Free market. People borrow knowing that they have to pay back more than they borrowed.
If they don't want to agree to the terms .. then don't borrow the money. Very simple.

I am asking questions and you are the last person who should advice me about mocking other beliefs!!!

I can also ask you questions like did Jesus pbuh worship himself? Or just the two other parts of Trinity?

Are you offended when you are questioned?

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

So by that logic its equally right to criticize democracy, secularism etc as they are also used to commit atrocities right?

Yep, it is. I do.

When your government bombed Iraq for oil, control, finding new consumers for corporations etc and did it in the name of spreading democracy and freedom, I did not see you criticizing democracy!!!

I wasn't a member here when that happened. ATS did not exist. And I DID protest it at the time. Just because you didn't hear me or see me doing it doesn't mean I did not.

Again, look at my threads in Social Issues to "see me criticizing" my own country.

So secularism and democracy are bad?

reply to post by logical7

It's very interesting that you have so high expectations from religions that if they are true then they should magically turn the world into a place that you want and only then you would believe in the one which manages that feat!

"Insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results" - Einstein.

You are correct - I have high expectations from a construct devised by man to 'rule' over others.

It's nothing different from an atheist saying that if God is real then He should solve all problems and end all sufferings.

What? Sometimes I have no idea what you are trying to say.

God is not a "He" and is not going to solve all problems or end all sufferings. People have to do that, together.
Using the Golden Rule.

Seriously, how hard is this for you to grasp?

reply to post by logical7

So secularism and democracy are bad?

In pure form, no.

But since no form of existing government is "pure" - they are imperfect - just like religions. We have freedoms here that theocratic-state citizens do not. You are ranting on about "Capitalism" - and what is happening now is "Capitalism" - it isn't true democracy, because the government doesn't pay attention to what the majority "wants". It's a Representative Republic. India is also a "secular" country. And a democracy.

And as long as it allows 'personhood' for corporations and government is biased TOWARD big business, and ALLOWS tax havens, off-shoring, and exploitation, yes it's bad.

And btw, secularism is not synonymous with democracy.

wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

It's very interesting that you have so high expectations from religions that if they are true then they should magically turn the world into a place that you want and only then you would believe in the one which manages that feat!

"Insanity is repeating the same behavior and expecting different results" - Einstein.

You are correct - I have high expectations from a construct devised by man to 'rule' over others.

It's nothing different from an atheist saying that if God is real then He should solve all problems and end all sufferings.

What? Sometimes I have no idea what you are trying to say.

God is not a "He" and is not going to solve all problems or end all sufferings. People have to do that, together.
Using the Golden Rule.

Seriously, how hard is this for you to grasp?

You just made the point that I was trying to reach.
People have to act on the truth to make it change things.
So truth by itself cannot help unless it's acted on so a belief can be true but not producing the results it can because not enough people are acting on it.
So assuming a belief to be wrong because it does not produce the result is an irrational assumption. Right?

reply to post by logical7

So assuming a belief to be wrong because it does not produce the result is an irrational assumption. Right?

Wrong.

If I believed that putting water in a freezer would bring it to a boil, because "someone" said so - and I tried it, and the water did not boil, but instead froze - I should just continue trying to get it to boil in the freezer?

THAT would be irrational.
I would have to assume that the "someone" was wrong, and that their beliefs were wrong.

My dad, as a child, believed that the juice in a can (tin) of kidney beans was poisonous. Another person I knew believed that mushrooms "disappear" after dark - vanish. Both were wrong beliefs.

LOL
Science, mate. Repeat the experiment. If you get the same results, it's viable. If you don't, it's rubbish.

reply to post by wildtimes


Well by your own standard I can tell you that there is historical evidence that my belief worked when it was applied correctly. It's called Islamic golden age.

reply to post by logical7


Horses and buggies also worked at one time. They aren't allowed on the highways here anymore.
The Islamic Golden Age was centuries ago, and then was over. Just that. WAS. It's not any more. And it will never "return" to that again - too much water under the bridge.

reply to post by wildtimes

The problem with the so-called Islamic Golden age is that is really wasn't golden. It was all based on lies. Lies don't make a stable ground to build on. In the end, the truth comes like an earthquake and knocks down whatever is built on those lies.