The Results of a Devastated Economy.

reply to post by HanzHenry

...i agree on the 99% who wouldn't do 'those jobs'..
joined the USMC at 17 to get access to a decent college fund/education.
after that full time student AND worked the 3-11 shift in a warehouse for a Heavy Equip corp.. for meager pay hustling to get the shipments out. Very HUSTLED.. and got a measly 0.75/hr raise for being the best/fastest at it.
when school got more time intensive (after freshman year), had to quit the 40-50hr week job.
managed a sub shop, then catalog dept at department store when school required even more study time.
Then quit school/burned out and joined military again.. got injured twice with 'career enders'
worked for a company LITERALLY digging ditches doing underground construction..from 5am-2pm with a broken back/neck,TBI, etc.
and so on...

point is, the immigrant CUT THE PAY in HALF from a decade earlier in construction. the same jobs in the 90's paid well over double what i was getting..

Then - we're not that different...though I was born at a time that you count to have been a lottery winner.
Though I despised some of the work I did (worst ever? - worked for a rendering plant - - - if you don't know what that is, think dead and rotting animals...all day long...every day...and...you're wearing them - can't get the stench out of your clothes, hair, skin, nostrils...etc...), I always tried to do the best job possible. And...in that regard, I was able to "enjoy" my work.
Worked as a chimney sweep for a while. Every evening, I would have to take two hot baths (showers were useless)... The first bath, to get one layer of soot off my skin and out of my nostrils, mouth & throat, and the second, to get clean enough to move into the rest of the house...
As to the whole immigrant-scenario affecting the situation - that's a given. It was moving that way in the '70's and '80's as well.

I just don't see any particular generation as being more (or less) disgusting than those that preceded or followed. They are all self-serving...and crooked...when it suits them.
Meaning - If you think your generation is any better than your predecessors... Just give it another decade or two...and see what the next generation says...OF YOU.

reply to post by beezzer



You try to stay ahead of the curve.


Let me guess....fracking?

Am I right?

If so, I assume you are investing in water.

The frackers have lit a fire under us that will burn our rears for centuries.

Just wanted to get that out while I still can. You'll be a mod, soon, little bunny.

No, I have no idea what my problem is. But I have a feeling about things, water being one of them.

So, many will become wealthy because they have the vision to invest in the water crisis. I get that.

What I don't get, is how anyone could do so without a moral qualm. Not just those who are afraid, or too blind to see, and speak out; but those who actually cause the dearth. I guess it's sorta like Tony Soprano. Chewing food. I just do dis for my kids....

Talk about economic devastation....and without pause, even for a drink of water.

# 132

WanDash
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

...i agree on the 99% who wouldn't do 'those jobs'..
Then quit school/burned out and joined military again.. got injured twice with 'career enders'
worked for a company LITERALLY digging ditches doing underground construction..from 5am-2pm with a broken back/neck,TBI, etc.
and so on...

point is, the immigrant CUT THE PAY in HALF from a decade earlier in construction. the same jobs in the 90's paid well over double what i was getting..

worked for a rendering plant - - - if you don't know what that is, think dead and rotting animals...all day long...every day...and...you're wearing them - can't get the stench out of your clothes, hair, skin, nostrils...etc...), I always tried to do the best job possible. And...in that regard, I was able to "enjoy" my work.

OMG, i still smell that.. i thought nothing could top the grease traps at a cafeteria.. BOY, when i was an engineer dealing with pumps, I had an account at Brawley Beef. Out in the HOT desert of Imperial Valley california..

I had to personally change out rendering pumps.. not only was the 120 degree desert and the beef plant stench beyond awful.. the pumps heat that 'slime' up to boiling to get in to liquify.. I would wear crap clothes, put a tyvek over that, and then shower and change to clean clothes to drive home when done. OMG.. rendering plants..lol

When I wasn't dealing with those, I dealt with the pumps at water treatment plants and sewage lift stations for subdvisions, hotels, etc..

we have singed nostrils for life.. landfills smell like rose gardens compared huh?

Point being, the work i was doing had me just above broke.. and the guys that had my position at the company 25 years earlier.. they were all VERY WELL OFF.. because they got paid more than me, even back then when things were all MUCH cheaper.

the under 40 crowd is getting ULTIMATELY SHAFTED comparatively. .. And seeing the massive influx of immigrants.. salt in a wound

I was 45 years old before I started making real money. My younger years were full of turbulent non stop changes, moves and brushes with the law. I hated the world was convinced I would never get a break and at 40 years old all the work I had put in to that point went up in a massive fire, literally burning down everything I had.

Life is not easy if you want to succeed it is extremely difficult without family or money behind you. It however, is not impossible.

Here is a clue, find something you love to do and put your mind to making a dollar doing it. I tried and failed many times before I got what I wanted. Most importantly don't allow yourself to feel defeated, adopt a warrior mentality to challenge.

Mamatus


Life is not easy if you want to succeed it is extremely difficult without family or money behind you. It however, is not impossible.

Here is a clue, find something you love to do and put your mind to making a dollar doing it. I tried and failed many times before I got what I wanted. Most importantly don't allow yourself to feel defeated, adopt a warrior mentality to challenge.

I LOVED making money and seeing everyone around me doing well also.. I HATE to see that MILLIONS of SCABS/immigrants have made the problems in America MUCH worse than they would have been.

I would LOVE to have a job where the out of work blue collar Americans could round up the illegals and anchor babies/parents and send them packing to where they come from.

THEN and ONLY then will America even have a chance. There will be nothing but a continuing slide into the United States of Tijuana until then.
ANd I use TJ as an example because that place is RUINED due to every country south of Mexico piling up there trying to get HERE.


IF the Mexicans would go home, run out all the non-Mexicans, then we can be best buddies/neighbors and continue the path to prosperity. But when the Globalists and Mitt Romney's can continue to play their game we ARE ALL SCREWED.. royally.

They break down entire CITIES, then force those people to emigrate to 'greener pastures' which is only temporary. When there is a DEFICIT of JOBS that pay decent.. ADDING MILLIONS of other poor saps that got shafted previously causes widespread desperation.

Only when people decide that instead of moving to 'somewhere better' that the only proper course is to STAY HOME and FIGHT will there be anything resembling the America I loved -- the 1970's-1980's.

reply to post by Mamatus


Your last post was a lot more coherint and relavent to my current situation and the situation facing many young Americans right now i appreciate you taking the time to formulate a response that wasnt emotionally charged.

Much appreciated.

I think Ex_M has some good points.

As stated in another thread, my parents are just into the 1%, and earned it by theirselves fair and square, without college degrees.

They worked harder than most people of that age. Father put in 90-120 hour workweeks through his 20's and 30's. Mother put in 80 hour workweeks. Thing is, they were incentivized to do so to get ahead, and give our family more opportunities. There was something that existed a long time ago... called overtime, and some people thought it paid off.

My mother's company afforded the family health insurance. My father's company afforded us liquidity on tap to help out in times of trouble so we never had to borrow from the banks. That's how they leveled up. Very hard work, above average intellect, and not buying into the schemes.

Fast forward to today, and those who have the same drive as my parents are simply getting by without government support. You can either work a single job and perhaps still need social support in one form or another, else bust arse working 2-3 jobs (overtime is virtually non-existent) to keep your pride and provide for your own. There's little opportunity to push through the rat race.

Only the most talented, driven, and opportunistic are becoming superstars. It's a hypercompetitive world out there, even since globalization and lower returns on energy investments (EROI).

It does seem that the plan is to piece by piece, position a chunk of the species "useless eaters" into an early death. I think allowing the US to sink is part of this master plan. Why is this happening?

You can call it evil, you can call it inevitable, you can call it whatever you like, but technological progress will only afford people with low intellect to adapt to an extent, before even their best efforts are realized as an overall drag on the species progress as a whole.

You can call them psychopaths, or mere ruthless rulers who are making hard decisions, but the idea is to continue our evolution while shaping up the species by providing pressures to wipe out those deemed least fit.

I don't think it matters what you or I believe, or say on the matter. The truth seems self-evident that the bulk are incapable of properly organizing and taking pro-action to thwart the plans in place.

My reasoning to back this up? Look around you. Look at what's happened in the last decade. We have a small percentage who are seriously entertaining these notions, and the majority who laugh, else can't really integrate all the information, and get off their arse to do anything about it.

The game is playing on, and we're being realized (many of us) as unfit for the future of the 21st century. It's simply as it is. You can hate me, you can tell me I'm a sycophant, or whatever derogatory term, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

webedoomed


The game is playing on, and we're being realized (many of us) as unfit for the future of the 21st century. It's simply as it is. You can hate me, you can tell me I'm a sycophant, or whatever derogatory term, but I'm just calling it like I see it.

the game is playing on because noone has gotten mad enough yet to throw a tantrum and overturn the table, punch the winner in the face and get the rest of the players to realize it is RIGGED.

There are a few ways out of this mess.

1. Let the people in developed countries spread out around the world after the 3rd world is de-populated in rapid fashion.
2. Give the people displaced by technology a decent life in exchange for sterility programs.
3. RESET the game, make all players turn in all winnings and start over. I mean, if the 'special people' are so special, wont they get right back to the top in quick order?
4. ELysium or Hunger Games.

Have to work to make money, Employers find ways to make more money by putting people out of work.... hmm this ain't gonna work much longer.

I personally, prefer a Zombie Apocalypse to any futures that i have read, seen, or imagined.

reply to post by HanzHenry


Blaming the poorest people in the nation for our problems wont solve anything.

reply to post by onequestion

If one were to try to predict what will come in the future, I would venture to predict a scenario like Elysium, minus people having jobs.

Technology has been eliminating jobs forever, how many people do you figure were put out of work when the automobile became commonplace?.

All of this technology was, has, and still is sold to the masses as a convenience, a thing that will make one's life easier, more comfortable. The medical industry (Insurance Industry too!), just to name two, is standing by for the aftermath, excitedly, salivating over all of the prospective customers suffering from obesity (GMO's, artificial sweeteners, easy fast food, just sitting in the car and driving everywhere), diabetes (environmental pollutants, GMO's, fast and easy food), allergies (GMO's, environmental pollutants).. (which by the way are frequently harvested by that awesome GPS technology by one guy, when it used to take at least ten), knee replacements (obesity/allergies /arthritis), arthritis (allergies, as I was trained, an autoimmune disorder IS an ALLERGY), Air bags (people live through a horrendous accident, only to be disfigured / disabled for life, instead of being dead.), Damn, I realized I could go on and on.

But you can maybe see where this is going....

Corporations and other such entities have figured this out long before it ever effected you or I.
When there is no clean water to be had, they will be glad to have you pay for clean water, via their filtration systems for sale to everyone at a ridiculous price.

As it will be for everything else you need.

Or..is it pretty much that way already?.

It almost seems like most of us were following the jaunty path of the board game "Life" while all along the real game being played was "Monopoly." And the game is already almost over except for the gloating.

Here we were following what we thought was a good path in life, maybe adding little pink and blue pegs in our car, teaching them well, buying insurance, dodging the occasional disaster and making our way. All the while, on the back table, Park Place, the utilities and conglomerates of all kinds were being amassed and monopolize until those without can't afford to continue.

My oh my....many of us must have missed the reading of the game objective somewhere along the line. Serious bummer.

Can we maybe go back to Tic Tac Toe?

onequestion
It seems to me like more and more people are falling into poverty and Im not basing this judgement on numbers produced by any media or governmental sources Im judging this by my observations of the communities around me. First let me say that in the last few years i have lived all over the country so im not speaking about 1 area im speaking about many areas. Ive met more people losing their houses or preparing for some apocalytpic journey. Im noticing people at the bottom are being forced into positions of having to actually band together a little bit as a community in order to survive. Between the rising cost of living, from the price of razrors, to a gallon of milk, to a loaf of bread prices are rising everywhere. Ok yeah i get it there is dollar bread still but if your stuck buying the dollar bread your getting GMO cheap processed inorganic food full of poison and with that knowledge for myself its next to immpossible to spend less then 4 bucks on a loaf of bread.

I have met a lot of people who are paying for houses that are nowhere close to what they are worth and letting their house getting foreclosed on. I have met people who have lost jobs and losing their homes due to lack of ability to generate a sustainable income. I continueally meet people who moving into RV's or moving in with other families.

It doesnt help that the rare jobs that are available have increasingly become harder to get due to the requirements for the job becoming more diffucult, and the fact that more people are competeing for the same jobs. It doesnt help that you cant get a job in construction anymore due to the fact that we stopped building anything 10 years ago of any value and we no longer invest into infrastructure in this company. Not only is that one of the biggest reasons why our economy is failing but weve lost all jobs related to production.

I read a thread this week blaming mexicans for the economy here in the US and at the same time a thread is started about how 85 people have the wealth equivelant of half of the worlds population. Its really not helping to continue to place blame on the least fortunate people here in America and around the world for the worlds problems.

Im sad, im disenfranchised, im in my late 20's and the future is grim. The more i look at the worlds situations and how people think the more i consider options like moving to Chile, or moving to oregon and joining an off the grid community.

edit on 20141America/Chicagoq000000America/Chicago1431142014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

I've always thought "what is a standard of living?' Is it so you get enough money to buy crap that you don't really need to make someone richer? Lets face it the years after the second world War were fun plenty of jobs in the reconstruction period etc. Flowering in a nice creative period in the sixties. But as the Governments run out of money they start with the taxes, its the same old story. cigarettes and booze go up ,now they are legalising Pot, not for some loving reason but it will be taxed don't worry about that. In fact as far as I am concerned the things that make life worth living, for a lot of people will be taxed to the point of ridiculousness.
So why pay stupid prices for tobacco booze and food, the answer is to live outside the system, and grow enough for yourself and with a bit left over to trade. There must be some places, in the post industrialised world, with an acre or two to get going, and there's plenty of people that will pay the bit of cash you might need for a few hours help. All it takes is a few seeds and know how.
As far as the economy being devastated goes, i think its more of a plan to get people into debt then charge them interest for ever. Funny how its the Amish that are making the money? Gas pump rises don't bother them, don't need a new tractor when the shire horses can do the job. If they want money they save it up. In a post industrialised world, you might have a busy day but I bet it could be more fun making something than buying it at Wall mart.

reply to post by onequestion


What is happening in the US is a totally predictable, and definitely was accurately predicted by many. And those who predicted it would happen knew that it would happen as a result of a central banking and high levels of government spending.

People can blame capitalism (which is not the current US economic model and is therefore a foolish blame), Mexicans (totally unbased and unproved), and any number of other causes. But few if any of these people who play the blame game made the prediction in advance.

I've been telling people since 2008 that the US economy will NEVER recover for the average American for so long as government spending remains high. Whats going on is a totally predictable result of government policies. So look back to the people who saw the 2008 coming long in advance. What do those people have to say about the causes and the solutions?

reply to post by WanDash


Good morning again, WanDash.
My last post (@HanzHenry) was meant to be a reply to your post. I shouldn't post under time pressure.

My (once more short) answer:
It all comes down to federal and ultimately individual independence, instead of fiscal centralism and your present-day corporatism.
The U.S. used to stand for those (more laissez-faire) values.
"If you'd just get back to that, you'd be on the right track", because that's what gave you a strong middle-class which could compete with your present-day "corporate America" and keep it in check... and a strong middle-class is the backbone of a healthy nation, as is well known.

(Only my respectful point of view from the outside of course)

ColCurious
reply to post by WanDash

 

Good morning again, WanDash.
My last post (@HanzHenry) was meant to be a reply to your post. I shouldn't post under time pressure.

My (once more short) answer:
It all comes down to federal and ultimately individual independence, instead of fiscal centralism and your present-day corporatism.
The U.S. used to stand for those (more laissez-faire) values.
"If you'd just get back to that, you'd be on the right track", because that's what gave you a strong middle-class which could compete with your present-day "corporate America" and keep it in check... and a strong middle-class is the backbone of a healthy nation, as is well known.

(Only my respectful point of view from the outside of course)

edit on 22-1-2014 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)

Thanks ColCurious
Can’t really disagree with your suggestions.
I, however, don’t see such a movement as a real possibility…
Everyone seems to fall into corruption as soon as they get what they want. My father and mother were both devout (zealots) unionists.
Unions, which, purportedly enabled blue-(& other)-collar Americans the opportunity to sniff the proverbial Dream, in short order became everything they railed against.
When the populace began shifting from rural to urban (then suburban), the destabilization of this society was guaranteed.

As webedoomed has addressed – ‘the elite’ have decided that individualism is no longer something you &/or I are worthy of… Only those that can afford it, will have that option…as long as ‘the elite’ have their way.
In the absence of a 1917-style Russian Revolution – ‘the elite’ will maintain and reinforce their positions…and the rest of us will continue to moan, cry, bitch and complain…into obscurity.

What do you think of the general notion of “survival of the species”?
A species (Mankind) that, left to its own devices (individualism, religious & ideological freedoms, greed, gluttony, etc…), will continue to war with each other and deface & destroy everything it touches –vs– “the brightest and best making decisions, establishing policies & standards, and overall determining the direction we will go”…?

It seems that, philosophically, anyone concerned about “Mankind” past their next meal, would consider the latter option ‘better’. … But – who, with one ounce of intelligence…would trust them…?

reply to post by WanDash

WanDash
What do you think of the general notion of “survival of the species”?
A species (Mankind) that, left to its own devices (individualism, religious & ideological freedoms, greed, gluttony, etc…), will continue to war with each other and deface & destroy everything it touches –vs– “the brightest and best making decisions, establishing policies & standards, and overall determining the direction we will go”…?

It seems that, philosophically, anyone concerned about “Mankind” past their next meal, would consider the latter option ‘better’. … But – who, with one ounce of intelligence…would trust them…?

Good evening WanDash and sorry for answering late (much work atm)...

Well, as we know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
No one can be trusted with too much power and power should therefore always be limited, seperated and systematically decentralized as much as possible.
Decentralised, independent, operational bodies are protective mechanisms of nature for good reasons.
Centralism of power on the other hand is against the basic laws of nature, and ignoring those laws will only lead to suffering, or even to our downfall as a species.

Maybe a little simple and brief, but that's how I see it.

I live north of Detroit in the suburbs. Starting around 2003 I watched entire industrial complexes disappear over night. Some areas look like a ghost town of empty factories. I'm not talking about the burned out areas of the inner city either. I went from job to job layoff to layoff till there was nothing left. A few of the companies were able to survive but not many. Just a guesstimate maybe 1 in 10 factories survived.

I came straight out of high school and within a few years I was making $16. Now if I want a job it's in retail starting at minimum wage. I'll eat horse dung and sleep under a freeway overpass before I do it. I'm not going to work just to pay bills to get to work. I'm referring to auto maintenance and gas prices. After I pay all of that I might as well work for free. I'm not going to contribute to a society that threw my future out the window so the rich in this country prosper. We need to stop electing rich greedy businessmen and lawyers. All they do it look out for themselves and their elite friends.

As George Carlin said "its a big club and you and I ain't in it".