Debunking Sitchin Debunkers

I'd never heard of this so I 'Googled' it and read a very interesting entry in Wikipedia.
Am I allowed to supply the link(?):

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by OzTiger

Yeah. Venus. Zooming around the Solar System causing havoc.
Pretty ridiculous. I hope you read the criticism section.

OzTiger
Yes, my friend, I was aware of your subtle humour and I always enjoy your posts as they are, as ever, always enlightening and always authoritative.

I felt the need to clarify due to the absence of any response regarding what I considered to be humorous.
Such is the fate of people who think they are funny, I suppose.
However, I don't care what anyone thinks. That "hitchhiking" crack was FUNNY!

OzTigerMy obsession with the hands on Egyptian relief paintings goes back a long way. I have always had an inquisitive mind. In my early teens I started to wonder where Mrs Cain came from in the Bible and how come two people could produce two sons but hundreds of races of different colour. I also dared to ask "Who was God talking to when he said 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness'" and why the plural. The explanations I got for this beggared belief.

The source of your problem is this:

OzTiger I also got a 'rap across the knuckle' from my Religious Instruction teacher for 'questioning the Bible'.

"Religious instruction" has damaged your reasoning capabilities.
(As an aside - don't you just hate it when people say "you know what your problem is?" - LOL)

Please note that "Elohim" is plural and that Judaism has its roots in the Canaanite religion, which included a large pantheon of dieties:

According to the pantheon, known in Ugarit as 'ilhm (=Elohim) or the children of El, supposedly obtained by Philo of Byblos from Sanchuniathon of Berythus (Beirut) the creator was known as Elion, who was the father of the divinities, and in the Greek sources he was married to Beruth (Beirut = the city). This marriage of the divinity with the city would seem to have Biblical parallels too with the stories of the link between Melkart and Tyre; Chemosh and Moab; Tanit and Baal Hammon in Carthage.

Wiki
The Canaanite religion can be traced directly to the Babylonian one (with Marduk) and thus directly to Sumer.
IOW, Your "instruction" was in a bastardized version of an ancient pagan belief system.

OzTigerHis name was Mr Brabbs and he gained an unasked for notoriety by requesting money from the school funds and applying to Somerset House for his Family Tree so that he could give us a lesson on Ancestry (he was also our History teacher). When he opened the huge brown envelope and stuck the contents on the board we all noticed that he had an ancestor who was "hung for sheep stealing" and every time the poor bloke passed a classroom the boys inside would all "Baaaaa" like a sheep.

LOL! Lucky for him, I'd say. That is, it could have been worse!

OzTigerI have seen a few video's of Mr Sitchin and whereas he comes across as a very nice bloke he is far from convincing in a few areas although I recognize his dedication to his research.

The only "research" that I can see in any Sitchin work is his reading readily available translations and then inserting his own purposefully fabricated meanings for words into the texts in exactly the places that allowed him to claim that ancient religions were talking about space invaders.

OzTiger
I am also convinced that there were 'human-like' beings who came to this planet and genetically modified our DNA. When I watch the "Startrek" movies and see the different nationalities of the crew I wonder if the Annunaki were of different species too.
I hope this thread continues for a while.

Anunnaki is an Akkadian term - used by the Babylonians to denote the collection of lesser gods the Sumerians called the Anunna. As all of these were offspring of An, one would expect them to be of the same species, if such a term as "species" can be applied to any member of an imaginary collection of supernatural beings.

Harte

In reply to 'harte':

Again, my friend, I am in awe of your infinite knowledge.
I have just registered with a site called "Ancient Origins" where I will no doubt spend some time over the next few weeks as one of the popular discussions at the moment is the Sumerian King list.
I also note the 'double innuendo's' that some posters make which sometimes gives two different answers to the same question regarding my query on Egyptians having two left hands.
On a humorous note this is contained in the quick two-liner "Why did Humpty Dumpty kick his girlfriend off the wall"? Because he wanted to see her crack"!
Thank you again for your concise and informative reply.

Phage
reply to post by OzTiger

 

Yeah. Venus. Zooming around the Solar System causing havoc.
Pretty ridiculous. I hope you read the criticism section.

After Albert Einstein past away they found the book left open on his reading desk called Worlds in Collision.
There will always be critics and some of Immanuel’s ideas are most likely wrong, but why through the baby out with the bath water?
I tend to look at the big picture as a whole rather then nit pick the book to death.
Perfection is a noble goal, however this forum may never be the source of true enlightenment.
An open minded attitude should help on our journey of seeking truth of who we are and why we are here on earth.

Phage
reply to post by undo

 

you okay? you sound really irritated.

No more so than usual.

From Cthulhu to Cloning

jcolavito.tripod.com...

echaria Sitchin burst onto the scene in a wave of von Däniken furor. Sitchin firmly believed the hypothesis of extraterrestrial intervention in ancient history and sought to apply his knowledge of Sumerian cuneiform and heiroglyphics to providing evidence to fit his theory. By loosely interpreting ancient myths and combining them with von Däniken's "proof," Sitchin was able to weave a tale of ancient astronauts departing from the hidden planet Niburu or Marduk (the Twelfth Planet - the others being the nine planets, the sun and the moon) and arriving on earth where they mined gold to save their planet - very similar to Lovecraft's Yuggoth. The planet, of course, fell into the solar system and by strange physics created Earth by smashing another planet in the asteroid belt. This all
happened about 450,000 years ago, Sitchin said. He called the leader of the aliens Marduk, after the Babylonian god; and he added that Marduk's attendants were the Annunaki, the 50 faceless gods of Sumer whom Temple equated to the 50-year orbit of the Sirius stars around each other. The Annunaki will make another appearance before the end of this paper.

Sitchin built on von Däniken and Velikovsky, adding to the myth a unique aspect. If extraterrestrials had given man civilization, why could they not have created man, for does the Bible not say that God created man in his own image? Sitchin claimed Sumerian sources clearly indicate that the expedition to earth required the Annunaki to genetically engineer the human race and clone them on a vast scale to provide slave labor for their gold-mining operations - not unlike Lovecraft's Old Ones. He goes on to say that man and the gods have quarrelled for thousands of years, shaping human destiny. He claims to know the identity of of Yahweh, the Hebrew God, but reminds people to buy his latest book for that revelation.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


i don't think sirius stars is accurate description of the anunnaki.

OzTiger
In reply to 'harte':

Again, my friend, I am in awe of your infinite knowledge.

As a teacher and afficionado of Mathematics, I find your use of the term "infinite" to be disappointing.
Any knowledge I have in these matters is self-taught and hard-won. You can do the same as me yourself - it just takes a little time.

Incidentally, I was never really very interested in ancient history. It is far too recent to hold the wanderings of my imagination.

Give me studies of H. Erectus, and I will be at your mercy.

No, my interest in this actually lies with the outrageous claims - and the bogus "evidence" for same - made by pseudohistorians like Sitchin et al.
For some reason I can't fathom, I'm fascinated by the twists and turns of these diseased minds as they try to avoid the factual nature of what is actually known about our past, and their continual efforts to hide these facts from their readers - sometimes by stating only the results of century-old research (eschewing anything more recently discovered,) sometimes by purposefully mischaracterizing what experts have said, and sometimes by making up their own "evidence" out of thin air.

OzTigerI have just registered with a site called "Ancient Origins" where I will no doubt spend some time over the next few weeks as one of the popular discussions at the moment is the Sumerian King list.

Checked it out. While articles on the front webpage seem "normal," a perusal of some of the posts and comments leave me with the opinion that the site is dubious at best.
Of course, everything is "dubious" to me, right? LOL

OzTigerI also note the 'double innuendo's' that some posters make which sometimes gives two different answers to the same question regarding my query on Egyptians having two left hands.
On a humorous note this is contained in the quick two-liner "Why did Humpty Dumpty kick his girlfriend off the wall"? Because he wanted to see her crack"!
Thank you again for your concise and informative reply.

I'll try to think up some more "reasons" the Egyptian artwork shows two left (or right) hands.

To bad we're not talking about feet, you know? That is, we could easily explain that - apparently Egyptians couldn't dance!

Harte

Again, I am both enlightened and entertained by you post. I am beholden to you.
You mention H. Erectus so dare I ask you what your opinion is of the DNA findings regarding our ancestors up to Hominid(n) where (I believe unless I have been misled again) that we had 48 chromosomes yet our homo-sapien (approx 250,000 years ago) was found to have 46 chromosomes - our 2nd and 3rd pairs having fused (or having BEEN fused) together. I have also read that round about 10,000 years ago at the time we began to read and write, communicate, farm and build, that there is evidence that 9 of our chromosomes had been genetically modified.
Have I been "Sitchinized" again or is there any truth in this. Your comments and opinion would be gratefully valued.
Have a nice day my friend (we are having a week of 100 degree plus weather in my neck of the woods in beautiful Australia).

reply to post by OzTiger

Have I been "Sitchinized" again or is there any truth in this.

Pretty much Sitchinized. He really screwed up the tale.

The translation says that Namma made man and, in celebration, Enki and Ninmah had a beer blast (hail Ninkasi!). They got wasted and got into a creative pissing match. Enki claimed that no matter how messed up a creation Ninmah could come up with, he (Enki) could find a useful purpose for it so that it could earn its "daily bread".

After 6 tries, with Enki succeeding each time, Ninmah gave up. Enki then produced a real mess (I won't go into the details of how) that Ninmah could find no use for. Enki won the pissing match.

Enki won by creating a dreadful, horribly deformed creature. Sitchin says that Enki created a "perfect" creature, man.
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk...#

reply to post by Phage


I thank you for your 'concise', inimitable interpretation, of the 'link' Phage my friend but I was asking about today's scientific research into our ancestors DNA. Particularly that of the Hominid and the difference in that of the homo-sapien. These 'genetic modifications' could (and I repeat 'could') explain how we changed from Cavemen to Hunter-Gatherers and then to people who could read and write, farm, build etc.,etc. From what I can gather, up until 10,000 tears ago we were also all black.
Have you any enlightening research on this - apart from Enki pissing up the wall.

If we're interested in "ancient texts", here's a review of Sitchin's first book I published half a lifetime ago, when I was a brash and all-too-mocking young man. I wouldn't word it so harshly nowadays, but the factual flaws I described still remain.

www.jamesoberg.com...

OzTiger
Again, I am both enlightened and entertained by you post. I am beholden to you.
You mention H. Erectus so dare I ask you what your opinion is of the DNA findings regarding our ancestors up to Hominid(n) where (I believe unless I have been misled again) that we had 48 chromosomes yet our homo-sapien (approx 250,000 years ago) was found to have 46 chromosomes - our 2nd and 3rd pairs having fused (or having BEEN fused) together.

No member of the genus Homo has ever been found to have more than the 23 pairs we possess today.

The 24-paired chromosome creatures are our nearest living relatives (besides, of course, Bigfoot) including the Great Apes, not Archaic Homo Sapiens, which also had 23 pairs (as did Neanderthal and Denisovians.)

To my knowledge, the only estimates we have of what the Erectus genome may have looked like is the remains of the "mystery" DNA found among Denisovian samples recently, which is thought to possibly be the result of interbreeding with Homo Erectus. I might be wrong here, though. That is, there have been a lot of recent findings concerning our genus - I have a job.

I, for one, do not find it surprisinfg that our genetic code is dissimilar to that of a chimp. After all, we don't look like chimps. We have shoes.

Harte

Harte

OzTiger
Again, I am both enlightened and entertained by you post. I am beholden to you.
You mention H. Erectus so dare I ask you what your opinion is of the DNA findings regarding our ancestors up to Hominid(n) where (I believe unless I have been misled again) that we had 48 chromosomes yet our homo-sapien (approx 250,000 years ago) was found to have 46 chromosomes - our 2nd and 3rd pairs having fused (or having BEEN fused) together.

No member of the genus Homo has ever been found to have more than the 23 pairs we possess today.


The 24-paired chromosome creatures are our nearest living relatives (besides, of course, Bigfoot) including the Great Apes, not Archaic Homo Sapiens, which also had 23 pairs (as did Neanderthal and Denisovians.)


To my knowledge, the only estimates we have of what the Erectus genome may have looked like is the remains of the "mystery" DNA found among Denisovian samples recently, which is thought to possibly be the result of interbreeding with Homo Erectus. I might be wrong here, though. That is, there have been a lot of recent findings concerning our genus - I have a job.

I, for one, do not find it surprisinfg that our genetic code is dissimilar to that of a chimp. After all, we don't look like chimps. We have shoes.

Harte

www.youtube.com...

Lloyd Pye passed away but his work continues on the DNA of the "Star Skull".
Is it real or fake?

His work continues to prove it is a real, human skull.

The special pleading of wishful believers also continues.

JimOberg
If we're interested in "ancient texts", here's a review of Sitchin's first book I published half a lifetime ago, when I was a brash and all-too-mocking young man. I wouldn't word it so harshly nowadays, but the factual flaws I described still remain.

www.jamesoberg.com...

Your blatantly overt self-promotion is duly noted.

BTW, the review is both too kind and too short!

Harte

waltwillis
Lloyd Pye passed away but his work continues on the DNA of the "Star Skull".
Is it real or fake?

I'd say the best way to tell is soak it in warm water for a while then smell it.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


ROFLMFAO!

My interest in the Sumerians came from and article in New Dawn Magazine almost 10 years ago, and I quote:

"Most human beings were counting using their fingers, if at all, hunting animals and gathering plants for their meals. Yet, we find the Sumerian's in classrooms learning the principles of the sexigesimal math system. Yes, the very same 60-base system we use today to keep track of hours, minutes and seconds. This advanced system was the first to reveal that a circle has 360 degrees and can be subdivided using 60, 30, 15, 12, etc., all fractions of the root number".

My inquisitiveness beggared the question : "Who the hell were teaching the Sumerians - and where the hell did they come from"?

Trying to sort out the facts from the myth's has been almost a full-time occupation.

From today's "Post a Funny Picture I'm Bored" thread:

Base 12 system, actually, and it came from counting knuckles on fingers.

Base 12 is easily converted into base 6.

With 12 digits, you can count more things. Up to 24 without taking off your shoes (assuming, of course, you aren't a chimp.)

Harte