Debunking Sitchin Debunkers

First let me say that I agree that Sitchin has made glaring mistakes in his Earth Chronicles. And for all intents and purposes, that seems to be deliberate. What I find compelling is that the truth of the matter is woven through out his mistakes and fabrications. What the inclusion of misinformation has done is throw researchers off the scent, and that's likely to be the real fly in the ointment.

reply to post by undo


In order to conclusively declare something debunked, you sort of have to provide evidence. Sitchen's critics have done that in spades.

reply to post by undo


What I find compelling is that the truth of the matter is woven through out his mistakes and fabrications.


Can you clarify, or at least expand upon this..? Or even expand upon the whole OP - the very short OP..?


And speaking of 'deliberate' - holy Karma...

What I find compelling is people who cling to these theories Sitchin had without anything more than an education gleamed from a computer monitor. Real scientists have studied these things, and they've discredited him because his translations and his science were bad.

Happens all the time. Just because we would want to believe something is true, doesn't make it so.

Pointing out flawed research and mistranslations as proof that he was correct, because he 'intentionally' did that to mislead researchers is just silly.

~Tenth

reply to post by undo


sorry, i pressed enter before i had finished the op. so here's the rest of it.

For example, in his Earth Chronicles series, he suggests a planet named Nibiru is incoming and that it will eventually pass by our location on Earth, and cause various cataclysms. His last date for the arrival of Nibiru thru this neck of the woods was 300 years from now. Yet you see various people proclaiming that planet x (another name for nibiru) is likely already here or closer than we think. 300 years away vs. nearby is probably not the same thing.

Now it could be that Nibiru is closer than we thought, if for example, the writings of Sitchin were meant to circumvent any discoveries on the subject by researchers along the way. It's easy to disenfranchinse a good theory by simply offering up a fake but similar version beforehand. And, that's my contention on some of his other material.

Personally, I believe he is wrong about Nibiru being the name of the planet, for starters. Nibru or Nibiru, was the name of Enlil's temple city on the Euphrates. The etymology is Nibru, Nibbur, Nippur. His temple was at the crossing place on the Euphrates. What that means is, it was one of the only places for miles, where you could cross the Euphrates. Sitchin took this a step further and pointed to Babylonian star charts such as the Omens of the Moon, and suggested the references to Nibiru as 2 different planets, proved that it was a planet moving past other celestial bodies. In fact, it meant place of the crossing, and when a planet crossed over the zenith of the temple city on the Euphrates, it was said to be "nibiru" -- et.al, crossing.

However, people who throw out all the rest of his material on the premise that parts of it are wrong, are missing the bigger picture and that's what I'm going to discuss in this thread.

For example, the debunk that claims there were no sumerian texts. This is technically incorrect. There were sumerian texts but they were mostly about every day events like how many bushels of food or other resources were accumulated. The real stories don't start until Akkad, the civilization that came after the flood event known as the Black Sea Flood. You wouldn't expect to see much in the way of flood event descriptions before the flood. So the idea his information is bogus because it quotes from post flood texts and then calls them sumerian is a bit of a misnomer. Afterall, the texts were describing flood events after they occured to the sumerian civilization.

More ...

Bible scholars that suggest Sitchin is wrong because he picks out texts from akkad to babylon, egypt and assyria, are missing the point. The hebrew talmud (torah with footnotes by rabbis) was first written during Babylon, for example. Torah is just another name for the first 5 or so deuturocannoical texts of the old testament of the bible - et.al genesis, exodus, leviticus, numbers, deutoronomy. Talmud is a rewriting of Torah with additional comments from various rabbis down thru the millenia.

I don't suggest that Torah is a copy cat of older akkadian/sumerian/babylonian texts, but rather the same stories you see in Akkad and so forth but from the perspective of the lineage of Noah. One thing researchers miss while studying old texts is that many of the royals had multiple names, and the Torah tended to pick one of those titles that closest described the individual. For example, Nimrod, the builder of the Tower of Babel, means Rebel. Nimrod is not his real birth name. In fact, you can see him in an akkadian text entitled, ENMERKAR AND THE LORD OF ARRATA. He was Enmerkar. And even that may not be his birth name. Detail, attention to detail, is tantamount when dealing with texts that are so severly condensed.

Furthermore, something was seriously up with Nimrod/Enmerkar, and I do mean, seriously. It says he BECAME a mighty one after he was already born and aged sufficiently to make adult decisions. Now a mighty one in biblical parlance is a Nephil/Nephal, otherwise known as the plural Nephilim. The nephilim were the offspring of human women and beings who came down to the earth from the sky, called various things including sons of god, sons of gods, the watchers, and of course, the nephilim. The nephilim were further broken down into tribal units, with various bizaare names. They were supposedly "giant" in stature, although archaeologists suggest this is a reference to their majesty as rulers, not their body size. I think this is probably more accurate -- the nephilim were hybridized humans who became the royal families.

More...

in the video entitled, Ancient Aliens Debunked, the video's author in tandem with dr. michael s. heiser, try to suggest that Anunna or Anunnaki just meant princely blood. This is a serious over simplification of the word. They do this in an attempt to debunk Sitchin's position that the Anunnaki were alien visitors from the sky. The text quoted in the video is quoted from "sumerian" describing the Anunnaki as having been created in the sky by Anu, the sumerian father god. They completely white wash over that the text is saying the Anunna were created in the sky BEFORE they came to earth. That is a serious obfuscation of the text. Heiser knows languages well enough to know where the place of residence is of the Anunna before they come down to Earth, so I call foul on that debunk.

As far as I'm concerned, that brings to the score to Sitchin 1, Heiser 1. Not Sitchin 0, Heiser 2.

reply to post by undo


Sitchin appears to have been:

1) an Illuminati puppet and disinformation agent

2) A CIA operative for the global elite

3) a complete FRAUD

Steeerike Three! Yeeer Out!

Game over...

I have long regarded the fact that the late Mr. Sitchen maintained offices in Rockefeller Center with a great deal of suspicion, and have, I must be frank, also entertained his sudden popularity and publications has perhaps being deliberately promoted by a financial elite, a kind of disinformation operation, and as any disinformation specialist will acknowledge, to be effective, the operation must contain elements of truth. Link

Independent researchers conclude Sitchin's translations a fraud

Independent researchers Michael Heiser, PhD and Jonathan Grey also found Mr. Sitchin's translations and story of the planet Nibiru to be fraudulent and a fabrication. Even more damning is that the "Ancient Sumerian Texts" that Zecharia says support all of his claims DON'T EVEN EXIST!!!" Sitchin as an intelligence operative for the Global Elite

Murgatroid
reply to post by undo

 

Sitchin appears to have been:

1) an Illuminati puppet and disinformation agent

2) A CIA operative for the global elite

3) a complete FRAUD

Steeerike Three! Yeeer Out!

Game over...

I have long regarded the fact that the late Mr. Sitchen maintained offices in Rockefeller Center with a great deal of suspicion, and have, I must be frank, also entertained his sudden popularity and publications has perhaps being deliberately promoted by a financial elite, a kind of disinformation operation, and as any disinformation specialist will acknowledge, to be effective, the operation must contain elements of truth. Link

Independent researchers conclude Sitchin's translations a fraud

Independent researchers Michael Heiser, PhD and Jonathan Grey also found Mr. Sitchin's translations and story of the planet Nibiru to be fraudulent and a fabrication. Even more damning is that the "Ancient Sumerian Texts" that Zecharia says support all of his claims DON'T EVEN EXIST!!!" Sitchin as an intelligence operative for the Global Elite

Get past the part where the misinformation or disinformation, muddles up the texts themselves. You realize there are actual texts from Akkad written about Sumer, that were not written by Zechariah sitchin? real texts. let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. it doesn't matter who sitchin was, or what he did. it matters what the actual texts say. have you read them?

undo You realize there are actual texts from Akkad written about Sumer, that were not written by Zechariah sitchin? real texts. let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. it doesn't matter who sitchin was, or what he did. it matters what the actual texts say. have you read them?

Indeed there were.

I believe some may have used the word Nibiru in reference to the planet we know as Jupiter.

There was no mention though of telly tubbies, HD TV, MacDonalds or aliens from outer space.

from my "Dumb Old Lady vs. Ancient Aliens Debunked" thread

Check that
Anuna, whom An conceived in the sky

Now Dr. Heiser knows enough about grammar rules to know the Anuna are the subject the action is being done to. That conception is the action, and that the sky is the place the action is occuring. In effect, they are being conceived in the sky. .


I think Heiser is absolutely correct about Nibiru and absolutely wrong, about the Anunna.

AndyMayhew

undo You realize there are actual texts from Akkad written about Sumer, that were not written by Zechariah sitchin? real texts. let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. it doesn't matter who sitchin was, or what he did. it matters what the actual texts say. have you read them?

Indeed there were.

I believe some may have used the word Nibiru in reference to the planet we know as Jupiter.

There was no mention though of telly tubbies, HD TV, MacDonalds or aliens from outer space.

this is what i think was happening, each time a planet like jupiter or mercury would pass over the zenith of the temple city, nibru, it would be said to be nibru -- et.al crossing. and that the euphrates had a counterpart in the sky, et al, a river in the sky. as above, so below.

reply to post by undo


I have to respectfully disagree...

To be honest I have read very little of the texts, here's why:

Once I find that a person works for the dark side and is deliberately deceiving others I will no longer study their material.

I find it to be a complete waste of time and sorting out the good from the bad is far too time consuming.

Life is FAR too short to waste on things that will not matter in the end.

Also usually their own deception influences to some extent everything else they say.

It surely DOES matter who Sitchin was because of the FACT that he had a hidden agenda behind his work.

reply to post by Murgatroid

I will no longer study their material.

it isn't sitchin's material! it's not written by sitchin. it came thousands of years before sitchin's mommy gave birth to him.

it's not a forgery or a fake, it's real texts from the real people who lived back then.
for example, have you read the namshub of enki?

Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,

There was no hyena, there was no lion,

There was no wild dog, no wolf,

There was no fear, no terror,

Man had no rival.


In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,

Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,

Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,

The land Martu, resting in security,

The whole universe, the people well cared for,

To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.


Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant,

Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,

The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,

The leader of the gods,

The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,

Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,

Into the speech of man that had been one.
-------------

that's not written by anybody alive today. that was written by the late akkadians. it's the story about the tower of babel event.

Murgatroid
It surely DOES matter who Sitchin was because of the FACT that he had a hidden agenda behind his work.

Aye, his agenda was to make money on the back of the ancient aliens hoax perpetrated by Von Daniken.

Wherever one flim flam man goes, others will follow!


Edit: his idea of writing it as low grade soap opera was, at least, different. Shame the Brazilian daytime TV channels never took it up!

AndyMayhew

Murgatroid
It surely DOES matter who Sitchin was because of the FACT that he had a hidden agenda behind his work.

Aye, his agenda was to make money on the back of the ancient aliens hoax perpetrated by Von Daniken.

Wherever one flim flam man goes, others will follow!


Edit: his idea of writing it as low grade soap opera was, at least, different. Shame the Brazilian daytime TV channels never took it up!

edit on 17-1-2014 by AndyMayhew because: (no reason given)

Explain the Anunna quote I posted above. If Anu conceived them in the sky, and then they came down to the Earth, what the heck are they? these are not quotes from sitchin, they are quotes from actual texts from akkad.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

undo
it isn't sitchin's material! it's not written by sitchin, have you read the namshub of enki?

Well now, that's a different story then.

I have NOT heard of namshub, have to check it out.

As for Sitchin's work, I'm done...

I've wasted too much of my life on lies as it is.

Murgatroid

undo
it isn't sitchin's material! it's not written by sitchin, have you read the namshub of enki?

Well now, that's a different story then.

I have NOT heard of namshub, have to check it out.

As for Sitchin's work, I'm done...

I've wasted too much of my life on lies as it is.

what i'm saying is, he's not always right, but neither is anybody else. we are all researchers at this point. if we weren't, we would already have all the understanding and knowledge we needed and study would be irrelevant. study to prove yourself worthy, would be a wasted verse.

undo
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

I will no longer study their material.

it isn't sitchin's material! it's not written by sitchin. it came thousands of years before sitchin's mommy gave birth to him.

it's not a forgery or a fake, it's real texts from the real people who lived back then.
for example, have you read the namshub of enki?

Once upon a time, there was no snake, there was no scorpion,

There was no hyena, there was no lion,

There was no wild dog, no wolf,

There was no fear, no terror,

Man had no rival.

Fairly sure there were snakes before man and there is no reason to believe that there were not the mammals mentioned. Do you actually have a point? If such a script exists, it has no more or less validation than the chapter of Genesis - so if you believe that, then what are you getting at?

As far as I'm aware, planet X is the name given for a theorised tenth planet (would now be Planet IX as Pluto has been downgraded) and only believers in the Nibiru cult associated the two.

A broken clock might be right twice a day, but its still a broken clock that either needs to be thrown out or fixed.

Yeah there are texts, but Stichin got the wrong end of the stick with the translation. Got called out for it and making money on his misunderstandings turned into books.

I just dont understand how some people can sit there and go "well yeah he was totally wrong and untrust worthy but he's gotta have some thing right in there", smacks of an inability to let go or face the truth when it comes crashing down around them (like the diehard adherents of billy meier and the like) I guess it would be a problem if your entire linch pin for your belief in UFO's was dependent on someone like Stichin, but people like that have to face the facts.

What I find funny is people dont seem to realize that alot of what was going for astronomy in those days got turned into stories. While the books "Worlds in Collision" by Immanuel Velikovsky have alot of things wrong in them, the idea about the fact that those who used to look at the sky in the ancient past would attribute and correlate the events they saw as stories (given most of the planets where attributed the names of gods) about their gods makes alot of sense. Its when people take those stories, attribute then to other things unrelated to planetary or stellar movements (taking the words of the story literally) and then drag the events down to earth.

Hence much confusion and shams (intentional or not) ensue...