Debunking Sitchin Debunkers

Yahweh did not originate in Sumer in any way. Yahweh actually started as a minor "warrior" deity in southern Canaan. El is the chief deity in Canaan, but the word can also denote "god," (when placed before the name of one of the minor deities), it can also be used to denote various aspects of the great god El. El created a "great host," with Yahweh as it's lead. Look up the Ebalite Texts, you'll see a proto-version of the Judeo-Christian bible in the making.

Abraham left (fled) Ur when it fell, at the fall of Ur-Nammu and the 3rd Dynasty. He and his people had become the head of Sumer's religious order, based in Nippur and Ur. Nippur was the "city of crossing," throughout Sumerian texts "crossing" had taken several religious meanings, his people became the "people of the crossing." Terah's (Abraham's father) and Abraham's ancestry was eastern Semitic, most likely Ebalite. After leaving Ur they fled west to the two cities still friendly to Eastern Semites of Sumer, first Mari and then Harran, bringing with them the vestiges of Sumerian-Akkadian religion and a compendium of texts. They were viewed as VIPs, and greatly respected for their religious views. Eble and Eastern Semite is the mother language of Hebrew.

At this point I think it's fair to say that the role of ancient Sumer is greatly overstated regarding the connection to biblical tales without acknowledging the great influence Semites had in Sumer. Nippur, Ur, Abraham, the "Biblical tales" had really been much more a Western and Eastern Semitic thing, and diffusion between Canaan/Levant and Mesopotamia mingled those religious ideas greatly.

We have to remember that the Sumerian spoken language died out relatively early in Sumer's history. By 2450 BC Sumerians were speaking Akkadian. The Sumerian cuneiform script would only persist within the courts and temples, analogous to Latin in Middle Age Europe. The Sumerian/Akkadian empire was also deeply fractured, between East and West, Ur belonging to the west and under greatest influence by the E. Semites (Terah). (confusing, no?) W. Semites (Amorites) would eventually throw in with the eastern Sumerian half and found Babylon and worship Bel Marduk. Marduk is a much older, proper Sumerian deity than the likes of El or Yahweh.

I'm greatly simplifying here, but the E. Semites (Terah's and Abraham's lineage) had lost favor in Sumer under a resurgent Sumerian movement that was more aligned with W. Semites that would eventually found Babylon and drive them back to their roots in Ebla. Terah and Abraham saw Canaan as the "promised land," and with their home in Ur gone, they set out to conquer the religious ideology of like-minded Semites in northern Canaan, eventually consolidating everything into a monotheistic approach. "El," the supreme deity in Canaan was already becoming a monotheistic form of worship, it was an idea whose time had come.

Diffusion was great between all the players in the ancient Near East. It extended beyond the borders of the Near East to Greece and Egypt. The Canaanite El and his sons became the founding of the Greek pantheon. Certain Egyptians deities were based on their Sumerian counterparts. Weaving in and out of this morass of origin tales was Zecharia Sitchin, stitching together his Ancient Alien narrative, cherry picking cuneiform texts and bas-reliefs and cylinder seals with his own brand of interpretation to sell you a book.

For further research:

The Khedorlaomer Texts: speak of the rebellion in the western Sumerian lands and a change in allegiance from Sin, patron deity of Ur, to Nabu, a son of Marduk. When Ur-Nammu fell, the influence of the Eastern Semites (Terah and Abraham) was over.

The Ebla Tablets from Tel Mardikh in northern Syria, excavated by Paolo Matthaie 1964-1975. 15,000 tablets in cuneiform were discovered in a royal library. Most date to third century BCE and some as far back as Abraham. Several Bible place names, Ur, Sodom, Gomorrah, Haran, Lachish, Jerusalem, Hazor, Megiddo, etc. and names such as Abraham, Israel, Esau, David and Micah were discovered in Ebalite, a Semitic language resembling ancient Hebrew. The language origin of Hebrew is E. Semitic, possibly Ebla. The Patriarchs in the Bible viewed this region as the ancestral homeland.

The Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible, Volume 2 (), Ebla's role in illuminating the Bible may be more productive from the standpoint of language and vocabulary. Insofar as it's language, Eblaite, may be grouped within the W Semitic family of languages, it remains one of the earliest of such languages yet discovered (however, some scholars believe that Ebalite should be identified as E Semitic; see LANGUAGES OF THE ANE II). Linked with contemporary languages found in texts from Mari and N Babylonia, it may form the background for the development of Biblical Hebrew. Ebla itself is found in N Syria, in the general region that the Genesis records suggest that the PATRIARCHS remembered as the ancient homeland (Gen. 24:10-15; 28: 1-5), a view also expressed by many of the names in Abraham's geneology that can be associated with the place names in the region (11: 10-32). (chapter continues...)

By now you're thinking what the hell does any of this have to do with debunking Sitchin or debunking his debunkers... suffice to say that Sitchin not only badly interpreted Sumerian texts but also had to reinterpret Semitic and Hebrew tales to his liking, making it all appear derivative of Sumer or rather, the "Annunaki."

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Mr Mask

before you spend any more time correcting me for not knowing something, read my stargates are real thread, here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
note that i wrote it in 2006 and that i know precisely what abzu is, or is suggested to be.

I am very aware of the thread (as are most who have haunted ATS for years now).

And yes, you are very unaware of the real translation of "Abzu".

I do not know why...I posted it for you with two links explaining.

MM

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Harte

yahweh is ea.
el is enlil.
ea was an el, but he wasn't referred to as el in babylonian or canaanite literature, he was referred as yah.

You're very hard pressed to connect Ya (or Ya or Yahu) with Yahweh. link See page 913 under section III.
Also:

On the other hand, both Archi and Anson Rainey, have suggested that the "-ya" is actually a diminutive ending used in shortened forms of personal names, while Hans-Peter Müller has argued that the cuneiform sign NI should be in this case interpreted as an abbreviation for ì(-lí) ("god") rather than as ià (*Yah), a view that Archi has since adopted with a modification, his reading been ì or lí. In any case, no list of gods or offerings mentions a deity by the name of Ya, and the connection with Yahweh is largely rejected today.

Ebla

There is no epigraphic or etymological connection known between Yah and Yahweh.

The word yahweh is in fact a list of characters that translate, roughly, as "He who is."

Remember, when asked his name he said "I am." That is his "name."
Show me the Sumerian for "I am."

Abraham called him El-Elyon," meaning "God" (El) "Most high" (Elyon.)

Harte

a reply to: Harte

so you think my posts are moronic?

canaan and sumer were concurrent i suppose?

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Harte

so you think my posts are moronic?

The posts in that thread are mostly moronic.

Are they all yours?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

most of them, yes

a reply to: Harte

HAYAH ASHER HAYAH.

that's the actual i am phrase.

semitic prefix H-AYAH

Ea. pronounced ayah.

obad-iah (obad-yah)
nehem-iah (nehem-yah)
hezek-iah
jerem-iah

Ahmose I (Egyptian: Jˁḥ ms(j.w), sometimes written Amosis I, "Amenes" and "Aahmes" and meaning Born of Iah
en.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: undo
canaan and sumer were concurrent i suppose?

The earliest definite reference to the Canaanites is a Sumerian text in Syria from the 18th century BCE which mentions Canaan. Some scholars, though, think a 24th century BCE appearance of the ethnic name ga-na-na at Tell Mardikh in Syria is also a reference to Canaan.

The place we call "Canaan" was there all along, obviously. Would it be a surprise that the Sumerians knew about the place?

The Canaanite religion was obviously heavily influenced by the Mesopotamian one.


Harte

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Harte

most of them, yes

That's exactly what I stated in my earlier post.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Harte

most of them, yes

That's exactly what I stated in my earlier post.

Harte

most of my posts are moronic, in other words. leave me alone, i'm an idiot. not worth your time, scurry along.

for anyone who doesn't think i'm an idiot, here's more

Obadiah (pronounced /ˌoʊbəˈdaɪ.ə/, Hebrew: עבדיה‎ ʿObhadyah or עבדיהו ʿObhadyahu,[1] or in Modern Hebrew Ovadyah) is a Biblical theophorical name, meaning "servant of Yahweh" or "worshipper of Yahweh."[2

yah is yahweh
hayah
h-ayah
variants of the same
also the root form of jehovah

Iah ( Egyptian: Jˁḥ, transliterated as Yah, Jah, Jah(w), Joh or Aah [2]

a reply to: undo

Not an idiot, this is a OP that would cause this type of in-depth discussion as its associated with foundations of man & religion. 1 wishes you luck with producing the most objectivity on the subject for some to learn from...

NAMASTE*******

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

personally, i don't have a problem with the entire sumerian narrative being hebrew in origin. mostly because i don't think they stole the biblical narrative from sumer, i just think they ended up merging enki, enlil and anu, into one guy. anu was the heavenly father of enki and enlil, who were both sons of god, but also gods in their own rights. one is the creator god, the other is the destroyer god. i'm not sure why they merged them. as the original sumerian texts show no hint of them being one and the same, nor do they suggest that enki and enlil were metaphors for cosmology, that doesn't come about until babylon. i'm guessing, because the sumerian data was buried under 8ft of flood silt from the black sea flood, that by the time of babylon, the priests were a bit confused. i think that can be blamed, at least in part, on the enuma elish

originally posted by: undo
canaan and sumer were concurrent i suppose?

The name Canaan is derived, like many Semitic tribal names, from Noah. However settlements in the region of Biblical Canaan date as far back as 9,000 BC with Jericho. The area was also heavily traveled, even in pre-history with the rise of the various lithic cultures spreading from Egypt to Anatolia and all of the ancient Near East, as far back 18,000 BC. The region lagged developing a civilization as those in Sumer or Egypt but then the spread of the various deity names being discussed wouldn't appear until after Semites had also spread into Sumer. (Ba'al, El, Yahweh, et al.)

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer

originally posted by: undo
canaan and sumer were concurrent i suppose?

The name Canaan is derived, like many Semitic tribal names, from Noah. However settlements in the region of Biblical Canaan date as far back as 9,000 BC with Jericho. The area was also heavily traveled, even in pre-history with the rise of the various lithic cultures spreading from Egypt to Anatolia and all of the ancient Near East, as far back 18,000 BC. The region lagged developing a civilization as those in Sumer or Egypt but then the spread of the various deity names being discussed wouldn't appear until after Semites had also spread into Sumer. (Ba'al, El, Yahweh, et al.)

so the earliest written accounts from canaan could be showing babylonian influence, i bet.

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: Harte

most of them, yes

That's exactly what I stated in my earlier post.

Harte

most of my posts are moronic, in other words. leave me alone, i'm an idiot. not worth your time, scurry along.

That would be a reasonable solution to your false information. "Ignore it and go away". But you see, try and see this how it really is. Another human is flooding reality with more nonsense, leading to infecting more innocent people with nonsense, bringing more nonsensical actions and belies to reality in the form of nonsensical people.

We are here on ATS for one thing only. To Deny Ignorance.

You have continually been corrected, show to have no grasp on the subject matter and shown the correct translations time and time again. yet you still go on preaching nonsense. It is clear what soruces you follow. Sources that have been debunked and shown to be dishonest for decades. It is clear you will not change your mind to accept facts over a perceived reality.

But nobody is here to ignore or leave "ignorance" alone.

So...be denied if you are being ignorant. It is a heroic thing to spend precious time to warn people of nonsense. If there was nobody doing so, dear Gods, we would have EVERYONE following hogwash.

MM

a reply to: Mr Mask

did you read anything i just posted? what part of that was moronic? i showed every logical step i took to arrive at my conclusions. you're just nit picking.

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: eriktheawful

the one that wiped the dinosaurs, that one.

There was no ice age that wiped out the dinosaurs.

The Karoo Ice Age was from 360 to 260 million years ago, prior to dinosaurs.

The next ice age, which is also the current one, is the Quaternary which started 2.58 million years ago, almost 63 million years AFTER the dinosaurs were wiped out.

There was no ice age during the Jurassic and Cretaceous periods, which is when dinosaurs existed.

So again: what "not naturally started Ice Age", and again: Where is your geological proof of a global flooding that wiped out all life on the Earth?

okay

abzu=deep water
abyss=deep water

check.

abzu=has a watery gate
abyss=has a watery gate

check.

abzu=beings come out the gate of the abzu
abyss=beings come out of the gate of the abyss

check.

i could do this for awhile.