The philosophy of minding your own business

zeroBelief
I'd like to run an un-official poll right here. If you agree with the following statements, please respond positively to this thread.



- My rights end where yours begin, yours end where mine begin
- What I do that doesn't harm myself or others, isn't up for review by others
- I do not have the right to judge others for their actions that do not harm others
- We would all be better off if we tried to live with this credo

- I feel that my rights extend where I want them to, and your rights end where I want them to
- Your morals =/= my morals
- I am not your judge, jury, or executioner, but that does not mean that I cannot do all of the above
- "all of us would be better off" is an untrue statement. If I gave everyone access to Internet, that gives everyone an equal chance to learn everything they can about the world. There is no way for me to tell who is a psychopath or a maniac, and who would use that information to manipulate others. The only thing I can do is sit and wait and hope the good guys are more intelligent than the bad guys.


This is how the world works. It wouldn't work any different because this is how humans inherently are. No amount of hypothetical will change these constants.

mr10k

zeroBelief
I'd like to run an un-official poll right here. If you agree with the following statements, please respond positively to this thread.



- My rights end where yours begin, yours end where mine begin
- What I do that doesn't harm myself or others, isn't up for review by others
- I do not have the right to judge others for their actions that do not harm others
- We would all be better off if we tried to live with this credo

- I feel that my rights extend where I want them to, and your rights end where I want them to
- Your morals =/= my morals
- I am not your judge, jury, or executioner, but that does not mean that I cannot do all of the above
- "all of us would be better off" is an untrue statement. If I gave everyone access to Internet, that gives everyone an equal chance to learn everything they can about the world. There is no way for me to tell who is a psychopath or a maniac, and who would use that information to manipulate others. The only thing I can do is sit and wait and hope the good guys are more intelligent than the bad guys.


This is how the world works. It wouldn't work any different because this is how humans inherently are. No amount of hypothetical will change these constants.

edit on 11-1-2014 by mr10k because: (no reason given)

It would seem that I get to add you to the list of those I owe a good chuckle to

Thanks!

zeroBelief

In other words, I'm suggesting an effort to be a self governing person, rather than having governance institutionalized.

It is that sad self-governance is not seriously considered in social studies.
Sociologists mostly discuss governance of people because it is strongly argued the there is no free will.
Kind of - every action is a reaction to something else.

FIFIGI

zeroBelief

In other words, I'm suggesting an effort to be a self governing person, rather than having governance institutionalized.

It is that sad self-governance is not seriously considered in social studies.
Sociologists mostly discuss governance of people because it is strongly argued the there is no free will.
Kind of - every action is a reaction to something else.

Many things in our lives are sad. Just read some of the opinions of those who felt it necessary to speak in opposition to what I suggested as a thought process.....

reply to post by zeroBelief

The first page was enough.
That's why I wrote about sociology.
The train of thought of behavioral sociologists is shaping our minds through politics, education, culture and so on.

Thanks for the post. This is the philosophy I was taught growing up---by the educations system as well as my relatives. I can still hear my Mother's voice: "You've got more than enough to do to mind your own business without sticking your nose into other people's business."
Sadly, by the time my youngest child was in school, the education system had changed to the point of being almost opposite what it was a mere couple of decades earlier. Now, with my grandchildren, it's even more convoluted---to the point of teaching kindergarten children to badger all adults about this or that behavior that might not "conform" to their idea of Utopia. ("Granny, don't you know coffee is a drug and you shouldn't use drugs?!! or "Granny, you need to sell your house, it's way too big for just two people.") Seriously? I'm going to take orders from a 5 year-old whose only source of information is "what our teacher said"??? Needless to say, I used it as a teaching moment about how children should respect their elders because the elders have more information about their lives than the child or teacher and in order to make good choices it's always best to have lots of information. I also took the opportunity to try and speak with the teacher but that didn't go very well. She's on the other side of the spectrum---thinks what I do in my "big" house directly affects her somehow because two of my bedrooms remain empty a good portion of the year!
"To each his own said the old lady as she kissed the cow." was one of my Grandpa's favorite saws!

Sly1one
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

I'll end with this...
In a world rampant with fear where potential harm is perceived around every corner...everything is everyone's business...so we can conceptually be in a state where people ARE minding their own business...but the experiential outcome is the exact opposite.

I desire to put that in my own words.

It's my business to point out the light. Whether or not you see it, is yours.

Staroth
Words to live by!

edit on 10-1-2014 by Staroth because: (no reason given)

Nah, these words are meaningless since they were not directed at the PTB, the ones who are into everything, all of the time and NEVER minding there own business.

The business of this world IS, Minding everyone else's business...

Aleister's words are a crock cause they are a distraction and were not directed at the real source of all of this.

zeroBelief


Even better yet, on second thought, just flag this thread if you agree with this credo.....

Kind of a shameless way to get flags. Leaving a comment was a better, and more authentic way

Ok, the muse walked up and kicked me while I was eating dinner. So, I wanna try to break this down again.

There's a subtle difference between observing and judging.

You can call me white without judging me for it. I am, and I'm not offended to hear it. Call me a cracker and I'll just grin fiercely.

Now, if you say I can't possibly have rhythm 'cuz my skin's too pale - That's a judgement, and I would be offended.

Hand me the mic and tell me to prove it.

Whether or not you enjoy the performance is an observation of how you felt. I would not be offended if you said you thought it sounded like crap. I would be offended if you said I should never do it again. (unless you add 'in my presence' to the end of that statement...)

I mentioned earlier, in another thread, that I don't like ICP's music - but I recognize that they enjoy making it. It's not my cup of tea, but I won't tell them to drink chamomile just because I don't like Earl Gray. I might, however, ask them to try it. As long as they don't make me drink it, we'll get along just fine - and vice versa.

zeroBelief
I'd like to run an un-official poll right here. If you agree with the following statements, please respond positively to this thread.



- My rights end where yours begin, yours end where mine begin
- What I do that doesn't harm myself or others, isn't up for review by others
- I do not have the right to judge others for their actions that do not harm others
- We would all be better off if we tried to live with this credo

That is a super hard question to answer - there is a lot of overlap between people where people interact together. I like being able to discuss things, I'm really into communication - and also positive problem solving - although yes, it gets harder to have much energy as I age.

A simple example:
If I want to smoke cigs, is it someone else's business? Well, I think that someone should be able to warn me about the effects, but not retaliate against for me for it because they don't do it themselves.

If someone else wants to smoke cigarettes, I will let them, even if I don't - if they come over to my place, I will have a place for them to smoke that is not inside because I am accommodating - if they want to smoke inside, I won't let them, because it leaves smoke in the house, but I will provide alternatives.

That's my idea of how this should work. In the best case scenario, cause-and-effect should come heavily into play instead of delusional beliefs with no evidence or logic behind them.

When someone believes something, like smoking is bad, but doesn't know why, they might get angry and even hostile towards a smoker because they feel threatened by the fact that he or she is smoking - but if you know why you don't want to smoke, it is not a threat for someone else to smoke in your presence.

It is all about knowing what's going on and being informed of the reality. Watch out, though - besides the real reality there is a social reality in fake land where you could be punished for something without rhyme or reason behind the punishment.

FIFIGI
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

The first page was enough.
That's why I wrote about sociology.
The train of thought of behavioral sociologists is shaping our minds through politics, education, culture and so on.

My father truly disliked people. He did time at Elmendorf AFB in Alaska during Vietnam. We were lucky enough to have him at home thanks to this.

After the war, we moved back to Alaska.

He used to say to me "I want to be able to out into my front yard, drop my pants, and take a #$%t in my front yard without neighbors bitching about it."

Personally, I do enjoy having neighbors. But, I don't believe that by having neighbors you have to concede to having them weigh your life and their opinion against one another. I've lived in HOA's, and hated the Nazi like regulation and conformity. I've lived in non HOA neighborhoods where people parked all manners of vehicles (including boats and RV's) on their front lawn. Neglected their homes. Etc. There are pro's and cons to both. I accept this. When I get annoyed at the Nazi's walking their beat in their jackboots...I remember...hey, I knew what I was getting into, so, deal with it. Same is said for the non-nazi neighborhoods.

With regards to sociology, and it's influence on our culture....

We do our damnedest to raise our children to think the way we do. To live and let live. To respect others rights, as well as your own. To understand the limitations of both.

diggindirt
Thanks for the post. This is the philosophy I was taught growing up---by the educations system as well as my relatives. I can still hear my Mother's voice: "You've got more than enough to do to mind your own business without sticking your nose into other people's business."
Sadly, by the time my youngest child was in school, the education system had changed to the point of being almost opposite what it was a mere couple of decades earlier. Now, with my grandchildren, it's even more convoluted---to the point of teaching kindergarten children to badger all adults about this or that behavior that might not "conform" to their idea of Utopia. ("Granny, don't you know coffee is a drug and you shouldn't use drugs?!! or "Granny, you need to sell your house, it's way too big for just two people.") Seriously? I'm going to take orders from a 5 year-old whose only source of information is "what our teacher said"??? Needless to say, I used it as a teaching moment about how children should respect their elders because the elders have more information about their lives than the child or teacher and in order to make good choices it's always best to have lots of information. I also took the opportunity to try and speak with the teacher but that didn't go very well. She's on the other side of the spectrum---thinks what I do in my "big" house directly affects her somehow because two of my bedrooms remain empty a good portion of the year!
"To each his own said the old lady as she kissed the cow." was one of my Grandpa's favorite saws!

Yepp. I forget who said it, for some reason I think it was someone in the Nazi regime, but....

"I don't care what you think....I teach your children"

The school can teach children whatever they so wish. Unfortunately, we cannot afford to home school or private school our children, and have to work with this.

However, I take it upon myself to actually *talk* to my young children. To show them that EVERYONE has a different viewpoint, and that they should not simply blindly follow any one thought or ideal.

Even my own.

Life changes, people change. We were made to adapt for a reason. This involves critical thinking. This is what we are starting to lose as a society today.

CretumOrbis

Sly1one
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

I'll end with this...
In a world rampant with fear where potential harm is perceived around every corner...everything is everyone's business...so we can conceptually be in a state where people ARE minding their own business...but the experiential outcome is the exact opposite.

I desire to put that in my own words.

It's my business to point out the light. Whether or not you see it, is yours.

Unfortunately for the sake of understanding/working with/communicating based off of your statement involving "light"....I don't subscribe to the belief that "light" is necessarily "good". Nor that "darkness" is necessarily "evil".

Yes, I get the point you are trying to make. I'm just sharing how I see the world......

ParasuvO

Staroth
Words to live by!

edit on 10-1-2014 by Staroth because: (no reason given)

Nah, these words are meaningless since they were not directed at the PTB, the ones who are into everything, all of the time and NEVER minding there own business.

The business of this world IS, Minding everyone else's business...

Aleister's words are a crock cause they are a distraction and were not directed at the real source of all of this.

I'm glad you've personally been able to sit down with Mr. Crowley and discuss this with the man. I mean, how else could you be so edified so as to make such a declaration?

I also cannot help but infer that it would appear that you seem to be taking the source into consideration with the statement. If this statement were made by your best friend, would you respond the same way? Is it not impossible to separate the idea from the source? If I am wrong, please let me know. Perhaps he has specifically stated in one of his voluminous works "Hey kids, I didn't aim that statement at TPTB, so, ignore it, it's pure gob#e...." ?

If my inference is correct, then let me share something with you. I do not like what Charles Manson did. But, some of his statements since his incarceration for his crimes are pure gems. Others are crap. Most are crazy. But, the ones that are gems have gravitas and are therefore worthy of acknowledgement.

If my inference is incorrect, then please, take nothing I said as an insult. Rather, as an opportunity on my part to humbly ask that you show me where you've found such reference to Mr. Crowley's work, and let us all come to your understanding.

I'm always open to learning.

mymymy

zeroBelief


Even better yet, on second thought, just flag this thread if you agree with this credo.....

Kind of a shameless way to get flags. Leaving a comment was a better, and more authentic way

OK, I get where you're coming from.

However, flags are simply that, flags. They don't mean much. I simply suggested that we use it as an easy way of stating "I agree" with the credo I posted.

Some may desire flags as a means of self worth. Hell, throw so many flags at me that I cannot breathe, I don't care. I was merely looking at getting a sense for who agreed with my viewpoints in life.

That was all. I apologize if this offended your sensibilities of "right" and "wrong".

CretumOrbis
Ok, the muse walked up and kicked me while I was eating dinner. So, I wanna try to break this down again.

There's a subtle difference between observing and judging.

You can call me white without judging me for it. I am, and I'm not offended to hear it. Call me a cracker and I'll just grin fiercely.

Now, if you say I can't possibly have rhythm 'cuz my skin's too pale - That's a judgement, and I would be offended.

Hand me the mic and tell me to prove it.

Whether or not you enjoy the performance is an observation of how you felt. I would not be offended if you said you thought it sounded like crap. I would be offended if you said I should never do it again. (unless you add 'in my presence' to the end of that statement...)

I mentioned earlier, in another thread, that I don't like ICP's music - but I recognize that they enjoy making it. It's not my cup of tea, but I won't tell them to drink chamomile just because I don't like Earl Gray. I might, however, ask them to try it. As long as they don't make me drink it, we'll get along just fine - and vice versa.

I appreciate the thought you put into this

Even though I get the overall sense you agree with my thoughts, I'd still appreciate the thought you put into it even if you didn't agree with me. I too enjoy conversation. And I enjoy talking to folks with differing viewpoints.

In all honesty, I now realize I should have clarified one thing in my original post. I should have stated that although words tend to be sharpened and honed to a point of absolute sharpness, I did not intend them that way. When I talk about judgement, I am not saying anything to the point of what an elected official can pass down as punishment. I am also not necessarily talking about opinions. Moreso, I am talking about the fact that if I have a neighbor who insists on wearing a clownsuit and reading the bible backwards while doing a slow rumba, I'm not about to get into that neighbors way. Is it strange? Hell yes. If he asked me my opinion, I'd say "Yeah, it's kinda out there"....."but, hey man, it's your thing...go for it".

Would I offer my unsolicited opinion? No.
Would I call the police? No.
Would I stare and go out of my way to make him or her feel somehow wrong for what they were doing? No.
If curious, would I try to find an appropriate time and place to talk to them about it, and try to gain a better understanding of what they were doing and why, in such a way as to not offend them? Yes.

Perhaps I should have said "Try to understand, not to judge".

darkbake

zeroBelief
I'd like to run an un-official poll right here. If you agree with the following statements, please respond positively to this thread.



- My rights end where yours begin, yours end where mine begin
- What I do that doesn't harm myself or others, isn't up for review by others
- I do not have the right to judge others for their actions that do not harm others
- We would all be better off if we tried to live with this credo

That is a super hard question to answer - there is a lot of overlap between people where people interact together. I like being able to discuss things, I'm really into communication - and also positive problem solving - although yes, it gets harder to have much energy as I age.

A simple example:
If I want to smoke cigs, is it someone else's business? Well, I think that someone should be able to warn me about the effects, but not retaliate against for me for it because they don't do it themselves.

If someone else wants to smoke cigarettes, I will let them, even if I don't - if they come over to my place, I will have a place for them to smoke that is not inside because I am accommodating - if they want to smoke inside, I won't let them, because it leaves smoke in the house, but I will provide alternatives.

That's my idea of how this should work. In the best case scenario, cause-and-effect should come heavily into play instead of delusional beliefs with no evidence or logic behind them.

When someone believes something, like smoking is bad, but doesn't know why, they might get angry and even hostile towards a smoker because they feel threatened by the fact that he or she is smoking - but if you know why you don't want to smoke, it is not a threat for someone else to smoke in your presence.

It is all about knowing what's going on and being informed of the reality. Watch out, though - besides the real reality there is a social reality in fake land where you could be punished for something without rhyme or reason behind the punishment.

edit on 11pmSat, 11 Jan 2014 22:30:32 -0600kbpmkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Yepp, there sure is an overlap of where my rights end and yours begin. It doesn't happen all the time, but when it does, it most certainly does.

All in all, really, I think the jist of my credo is to be in a constant state of trying to understand. And honestly, if you understand someone and the way they exercise their rights, you may voluntarily curb your own in an effort to allow them to continue theirs. Or, you may simply move a bit so as to give them that extra reach of space so that you can enjoy your rights as much as they can.

Words are fantastic. Words are amazing. Words can encapsulate far too much due to their inability to actually capture an idea.

This is why we tend to get into the quagmire that we do when people start "finding loopholes" in things....or worse...searching for them. Look for the idea. Understand the idea.

Go from there.

reply to post by zeroBelief


Much agreed. And I just wish people could be more open-minded!

PaJoe52
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

Much agreed. And I just wish people could be more open-minded!

That is another huge aspect of it all...remaining open minded.

Notice my name on here? zeroBelief?

When someone believes, in my opinion, they are closing their mind off to other possibilities. For instance, if I believe I have the right to smoke, screw you and whether or not I can or cannot smoke around you. If I believe in a christian god, screw you and your belief in Islam, or Buddhism, or Judaism. You're wrong. I'm right.

I don't allow myself to fall into that. I find it as ridiculous as The Three Stooges. Or our current political situation.

zeroBelief isn't actually 100% accurate, there are things I believe in. But they are on a much more granular scale than what many place their hopes and fears in.

Thanks for reading