Why do you think your "God" does not make it's existence obvious or communicate in an obvious man

Xeven
Why do you think your "God" does not make it's existence obvious or communicate in an obvious manner?
Now I know some of you are going to say oh he does make his existence known and he does communicate and well I am not talking about some vague bible writings written thousands of year ago. I am talking about just plain ole hello there type talking.

edit on 2-1-2014 by Xeven because: (no reason given)

Because he is not in the form that you think he is, some bearded dude on a cloud. That's your own delusion thinking that other people's gods have some kind of form that they can show themselves.

Instead, God is the Infinite Beingness and Source of ll consciousness, already present everywhere and within everything. Everywhere you look, he is there. You are just tuning into the wrong radio station. You're on A.M.

Why does your god not reveal himself? Testing your faith? Why would he do that if he created you he knows the lengths of your faith. So now that this is clear what gives? Why is god so secretive? Why is our only salvation written on some scrolls created by uneducated men 1000's of years ago? Would be easy for everyone to believe if God would just say hello. God could save everyone with a simple hello.

He says hello daily. In each breath, a beautiful sky, a slight breeze in the summer, a smile from a stranger, a good meal, awakening to a new day in the morning...all of that is Him.

I don't know where you've been looking or thinking this is all about...but good luck with your ideas about all this

God can be directly experienced. Then you know for sure, prior to any belief systems

reply to post by Xeven


I like to use the analogy that God is a great body and each of us is just a tiny cell within said structure.

In this framework how would a cell know communication with the host?

Incidentally this would mean the death of everything would be when God dies...which would be an un calculable number from our perspective, and it would mean God was a cell of a much larger creature as well by logical reasoning in this premise.

Part of this metal path has led me to many new ideas, it can be an interesting exercise.

Cheers, good question.

Krazysh0t
reply to post by yeahright

 

So you think that this god in all of his infinite power who claims to love us unquestionably (as long as we don't irk two emotions that he has that are considered sins when humans have them, jealousy and wrath) would reveal himself to one or two people in a small area of the world in order to spread the truth about him, then proceed to punish everyone who didn't listen makes sense?

reply to post by Xeven


Well I don't know about other people's God, but I believe mine already did that. He came to visit us and live among us as a human. He did miracles and raised the dead right in front of other humans. Many of those humans still refused to believe in him. Most have heard of the story of Jesus.

We got mad at him for doing miracles and saying he was God and tried to kill him for it. In other words you just have to believe because even if God is right in front of you doing miracles if you don't believe he's God you don't believe.

Seeing isn't believing. Some people see a ghost and believe in ghosts. Some people see a ghost and believe it was just an illusion or a trick of the mind. Who's right? Couldn't tell ya. Can't always tell what something is by just looking at it.

So anyway maybe we just aren't ready to have God come down and be so obvious yet? My God said he would come back and try again later though. Maybe that time will work out better.

reply to post by Xeven


something to do with it defeating the purpose of us agreeing to be stripped of all our knowledge, and be plopped down here, with nothing to guide us in our choices and actions, except for our core being of who we are in essence .. and what we, and our family and friends learn through life experience, to help guide us ..
Some may choose to use their time here , to find God .. Truth .. whatever you wish to refer to it as ... some may choose to use it to have lots of drugs and sex ..

but i crudely wonder with my simplistic mind .. if i were God .. and i saw my little children .. lost .. with the tiny miniscule knowledge and insight that their brains are able to comprehend, trying to find me (God) .. i would be sooo .. erm .. words dont exist .. but something along teh lines of .. sooo happy .. sooo proud .. to see soo many of my children searching for me in this set up .. and to see how many of them, even when dealt crappy circumstances, dont waver their belief in me ... That would completely melt my heart ..

On top of that .. if i saw my lost children .. while wondering what this is all about .. if i saw them, loving each other .. from the heart .. unconditionally .. and making personal sacrifices, to benefit others ... well .. that would bring a tear to my eye for sure .. if i had eyes ..

i could go on ..
From the over 2000+ NDEs ive researched .. while there seems to be many purposes to various lifes .. the common theme, time and time again .. is LOVE !!
always comes down to unconditional love .. and most people who have mety god in these NDEs .. describe him /it, as pure love ..
i appreciate others will not believe in this stuff, or the NDEs .. but they are what they are

reply to post by yeahright


The reason I ascribed that thinking to you is because that is what the bible says and is generally what most Christians believe. Many of the members of ATS are Christians and generally the ones who come into these threads in opposition to the OP's stance take that position. It was a safe bet to make.

However your answer is the same BS I always hear about how to "find" God like my lack of discovering him has to do with some lack in willpower or something. I'm an ex-Christian, I tried talked to God many times as a child, he never answered. I never got a response from him. All I got was silence. Sorry but that isn't good enough in my book. Just because blind faith may be acceptable to other people, doesn't mean it should be acceptable to others. Being told that all these great things that God did happened in the past yet I was unable to experience any of them because god was too lazy to get up and update his image for his believers just screams lies to me.

reply to post by yeahright


If I might ask you a question...to your thinking, is the word "God" a proper name or a general noun? It seems to me the word is just a vague label applied to a euphemism whose exact character and parameters changes from person to person, which means there's no actual substantial basis. So that's why I'm asking.

Something that does not and has never existed cannot make its existence known. Unacquivicably impossible!

reply to post by Xeven


My quick reply on a dying phone battery... I don't know. I don't think anyone would ever know. But, maybe faith has something to do with it. Here's some info on faith from Hebrews chapter 1:

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for. By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." (Hebrews 11:1-3, 6 NIV)

If God made himself evident to us then faith is no longer required because we have proof. He says that without faith it is impossible to please Him.

My thought; who are we to demand proof? Of course I would love to have a one-on-one chat with God but we really put ourselves on a pedestal when we think "God at least owes me showing Himself as being real". Again it's just my opinion.

I believe that in time all things will be revealed to us.

Happy new year to you all btw!

reply to post by yeahright


Very well put! When I choose to speak with someone about a potentially "sensitive" subject; I actively try to not impress my views ON them, rather, cordially discuss and ponder the points made. It's not a win/lose situation, just 2 minds trying to see eachothers point of view.

I'm never usually logged in. I lurk usually because I don't anything worth saying. But I hoped to offer a Christian view that no one has mentioned just yet. I get what you're saying, especially Krazysh0t,I really do. And it doesn't really matter how far along you are on your Christian walk, because the whole cry to God over "Why won't you just do this for me? Why don't you show up? Why won't you speak? Why can't I see you?" still come to mind for even me, and I've been a Christian since I was a child.

God does say Hello. God does interact with his people. God does act outside just bible verses. The bible is a collection of written works proving that God acts in people's lives. He acted in people's lives before the Bible was formed, and he acts in people's lives just as loudly outside. Unfortunately, and this is something I've learned this year, not every Christian knows this. They are told and taught that God opens and closes doors and talks to them through verses and that's it. I've found this year that it's not true. I used to believe it though, and would be really upset that God didn't care enough about us to go further than that. But he does.

There is this guy, called John Eldredge, who is a Christian. In his books talks over and over again about talking with God. Not just deep philosophical conversations. Every day conversations. The 'Hello!', "I love you!", "You're so very important to me" kind. He asks God questions all the time. "Should I go to the cabin this week?", "What do you think? Should I do this?", "Do you think this is a good idea?", "What should I do here?", "God? Where's my watch?" And he gets answers every time. Not vague answers, but definite ones. He gets obvious responses and reminders. God is not silent for him.

The only problem with all this is that very few Christians know about this. They've all been trained to go simply on faith alone and to live and not expect to see any evidence of God anywhere. Maybe he'll make it possible for you to get that job. If it happens, God said yes. If it didn't, God said no. But that's not true. People have just forgotten. Wanting that same intimate interaction John Eldredge has with God, I chased after God hoping for the same thing, and I gotta say... he's right. I'm just starting to touch on some of those things. God is 'louder' now. I'm still learning, because you DO have to learn to hear. God is spirit and we are spirit and flesh, so learning to communicate spiritually is harder and you do have to learn to hear. But God did amazing things in the past and he also does them nowadays.

'Obvious manner' also does depend. Most nonreligious people would say obvious is the sky splitting open, God coming down to personally say hi, messages delivered by angels, supernatural things. But to Christians, obvious are more spiritually obvious, and one you have to learn to see or sense. It's going on a walk hoping to meet God and turning around for no explainable reason, to see three falcons flying overhead. It's being lost and afraid and having the most random of people come to keep you company, it's being lost and afraid (again, this happens to me a lot) and just when you break down, the bus you were waiting for arrives.

But it is also louder. I have felt God's approval. While jogging on the treadmill, I have mentally roared threats against my enemies (spiritual ones), bellowing warnings to things that would dare oppress me and drag me down and felt God approve, felt him grin a little, and felt him wave me on, and felt the "Go on, keep going." I have felt many more instances like this. So yeah, God is obvious. The only catch is that you have to go looking for it. It's not all free. You have to chase after it and you have to want it and you have to learn to hear and know God when he is speaking/acting/being obvious, but he isn't silent.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I wouldn't believe in God either if a bible was the only way to know him.

reply to post by Xeven


In may 1989 I was 18 years of age nearing my 19th birthday, My then best friend Jude whom later worked for the united nations as a negotiator of sorts between arabs and israelis whom had been away for some time had recently returned and along with his cousins John and Andrew at Judes sugestion we all decided to take a weekend break and go hiking up mount snowdon, On the first day the weather was fine and we spent time hiking around the base and drinking in the local pub which was adjacent to the converted sheep shed Jude had hired off the local farmer and while in the pub we nearly came to blows with a couple of welsh guards whom were off duty and having a drink,
(Now we where not little lads but these were all over 6'4" or taller and well built so it was only the good hearted intercession of one welsh guard whom was more sober then his comrades that saved our bacon litterally as we would never have stood a chance but then you know how it is one of your friends gets into an argument with an aggressor and you are all in it together come hell or high water),.
Upon returning to the shed I stood while the three family members talked about family matters feeling somewhat of an outsider and instead looked at the notice board on one wall and noticed many thank yous written from police, military cadets and others whom had hired the shed before us for similar purpose, there were 8 double bunks so the four of us each had a bunk bed to ourself and on the wall by mine which was near the window was a painting that I could not make heads or tails out of and neither could the others at that point in time.
That night the field outside the shed was filled with campers in tents and in the night the weather turned really foul, as we got up in the morning and walked out the only tents left where two abandoned tents which had collapsed and the field was empty, now I was ill prepared and ask any one familiar with hiking how bad this is, I was wearing sponge soled sneakers and jeans with a light jacket and except for maybe better shoes the others where similarly ill prepared, it was still raining heavily and once again we put it off instead spending our time walking around the base so after yet another more cautious afternoon in the pub we retreated to the shed once again and had heinze spaghetti and heinze beanze mixed together as our food (what can I say not a recipe I would recommend but when you are cold and wet a warm meal of any description tastes ok),. Upon retreating to our bunks I lay there in the dark and had a very bad feeling, now we had already agreed whatever the weather we were going up the mountain the following day, the feeling grew in intensity and I felt for some reason (I was only 18) that I was going to die and yet I was resigned to it so as I was religious (A christian but not really a church goer) I prayed (Which is kind of like talking to someone you believe is there but you have never seen and simple believing they can hear you and as I am estranged from my biological father I from childhood directed my feelings along that side to my god) and asked the lord to look after my mother and brothers and sisters and said to him I do not want to die but if it is his will and he is calling me I accept it (I think i was a better person then than now), Suddenly I felt an overpowering sensation of calmness and presence and I never heard but the words seemed to surround me and to come from above and though there was no sound they were clear and profound in a male presence "DO NOT BE AFRAID MY SON THIS IS NEITHER THE TIME NOR THE PLACE", Actually it both reasurred and terrified me but I slept as a sound sleep came over me.

The following morning not telling the others anything of what had happened we set off in the rain with black plastic bin liners over our jackets to keep the rain off and walked to the small station at the bottom of the cog railway that goes up to the summit, then we walked along side the track and up into the mist until the cloud made visibillity less than 10 to 15 feet at most but nevertheless we continued and found that the bin liners were useless when the very air was saturated, suddenly jude said "I know a shortcut follow me" so we followed him along a scree covered goat track to a cliff that was about 16 feet high and sloping at about 5 to 10 degrees off the vertical from a thin ledge upon which the goat track skirted it's base, now jude was a consumate climber and could climb just about anything so he suddenly free climbed the small cliff and I followed (in sponge soled sneakers), as I was about eight or so feet up I reached for a handhold and only had two points of contact so this was reckless, the hand hold came away in my had as it turned out to be a clump of moss that with the rain and running water in my eyes I had mistaken, suddenly I fell.
John and Andrew each simultaneously cought my left and right rist, John hand, john whom was a very well built lad, crushed my sports watch and they were both shaken and pale breathing in relief and saying are you OK as I had very nearly tumbled off the goat track ledge into the mist, My feet (the back of my heels) were on the ledge and I was leaning backward over a steep drop into the mist, they pulled me back up and like an idiot I then simply climbed the cliff again this time successfully, As the four of us finally reached the top we walked into the restaurant that is situated just below the summit and there were three people in there, the one whom was mopping the floor and he said something that sounded like a profanity in welsh at the sight of us (three drenched young lads walking out of the rain and mist off the summit, dripping water on his floor and we then ordered hot drinks at the counter before continuing (shivering cold and wet) back down this time carefully following the cog railway.

As We entered the shed agian I gasped and said look that image (which was the painting non of us had made out) is of a shepherd and he is carrying a lamb over one shoulder while another is sheltering under his cloak by his feet, he had a crook with a lantern hooked on it and appeared to be in a very dark scene with driving dark rain around him.

So and given that my experience though unique is not the only one of it's type can you really say that god never talks to people, no he never or at least very seldon has a conversation or answers a question as after all he has billions of people to watch over and even some whom he has answered have surely disapointed him (myself being a point in case) but he is there and I am sorry you never had this experience but in time if it is meant for you then you shall but only if he has a reason too.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Why doesn't Jesus come help the rest of us. He gave unfair advantage to the apostles. They got to actually know him where all we got is some thousands year old text taken from sayings some 200 years after the fact. Which then got edited, downsized, outsourced etc...

He is just as secretive as any of the God's but why?

reply to post by JustSomeGuy1974


I was just following from the op's example.

But God likely has no gender as we understand it. He split us into male and female for obvious reasons, but He doesn't have that need. So why would He have a gender? I mainly use the masculine because it's what I grew up using and there are no really good neutrals in English.

justreleased
reply to post by Xeven

 

One time. When I was at bible camp. I talked to, (felt),god.

He told me it was "our secret"! What I saw and felt that night was never to be discussed with anyone.

God is strange.

Thats exactly what my evil Uncle said when he molested me as a child.

Back to the topic...I don't think God is to bothered by us and is likely busy making something else, I do think he/she made all the laws of the universe and let the dice roll just sitting back and laughing his arse off at it all.

reply to post by ArgentumAquila


Well said.

Xeven
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

Why doesn't Jesus come help the rest of us. He gave unfair advantage to the apostles. They got to actually know him where all we got is some thousands year old text taken from sayings some 200 years after the fact. Which then got edited, downsized, outsourced etc...

He is just as secretive as any of the God's but why?

Well like I said in my post, according to the story Jesus said he was going to prepare a place for us in his kingdom and come back and get us all when it's time. There's no unfair advantage there. We'll all get to know to him then.

Which god? Mine? Or are you referring to the Christian/Hebrew one?

I'm starting to think Atheists have a more salient conception of what God is than anyone else, ironically. They've created their own exaggerated version of Christianity that's easy to debunk with the arguments they've formulated against their own concept. Some sort of ego-masturbation thing, I guess.

Atheists should try something a little more challenging, like an in-depth debunking of Kashmir Shaivism.

reply to post by Xeven


Simple answer, think of it this way. Can your red blood cells communicate directly with you, can they hold a conversation. Think of God as if it were you and imagine you're a red blood cell in the body of god. You have a body, you live, and even have sub-structures that make you up. Now, as a red blood cell try to imagine talking to the body your inside of. The body has no idea a red blood cell is talking to it any more then God could understand a discussion with us. Sure occasionly someone might windraw blood from the body and look at it under a microscope but even when someone is doing that and they can see the red blood cells trying to "communicate" the red blood cells probably aren't even aware their being observed because they simply die outside of the world they are made to live in and are ill equiped for such observations outside of that world.