An UNMODIFIED Boeing 767 cannot fly @ 510 knots @ Sea Level. (hoax)

to attack our coast not our homeland

Last time I looked the Twin Towers were only 10 kms form the coast. So those trained to protect were not trained to think and go the further 10 kms to protect....blah blah
BTW your coast makes up part of your Homeland. Can you quote me a military manual that specifically excludes protecting your homeland?

Sometimes...actually most times lately on ATS there appears to be a wilful blurring and disinfo at all costs.

What is with that, are we that stupid that anything goes?

reply to post by dragonridr


Jet fuel in air burns at a lot lower temps in air.


Jet A-1 Jet A
Flash point 38 °C (100 °F)
Autoignition temperature 210 °C (410 °F)[10]
Freezing point −47 °C (−53 °F) −40 °C (−40 °F)
Open air burning temperatures 260–315 °C (500–599 °F)[10]
Density at 15 °C (59 °F) .804 kg/L (6.71 lb/US gal) .820 kg/L (6.84 lb/US gal)
Specific energy 43.15 MJ/kg 43.02 MJ/kg
Energy density 34.7 MJ/L 35.3 MJ/L

Steel still won't bend at those temperatures according to a steel EXPERT...
rense.com...

Well as far as Nano Thermite....you are pretty far off on it not being invented...LOL

Nano-thermite
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A Nano-thermite or "super-thermite"[1] is a metastable intermolecular composite (MICs) characterized by a particle size of its main constituents, a metal and a metal oxide, under 100 Nanometers. This allows for high and customizable reaction rates. Nano-thermites contain an oxidizer and a reducing agent, which are intimately mixed on the nanometer scale. MICs, including nano-thermitic materials, are a type of reactive materials investigated for military use, as well as for general applications involving propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics.

What distinguishes MICs from traditional thermites is that the oxidizer and a reducing agent, normally iron oxide and aluminium, are in the form of extremely fine powders (nanoparticles). This dramatically increases the reactivity relative to micrometre-sized powder thermite. As the mass transport mechanisms that slow down the burning rates of traditional thermites are not so important at these scales, the reactions become kinetically controlled and proceed much more quickly.

Even Wiki has it
en.wikipedia.org...

And here are photos of it from 9/11 building residue...
thewe.cc...

NEXT!!!

LaElvis
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Jet fuel in air burns at a lot lower temps in air.


Jet A-1 Jet A
Flash point 38 °C (100 °F)
Autoignition temperature 210 °C (410 °F)[10]
Freezing point −47 °C (−53 °F) −40 °C (−40 °F)
Open air burning temperatures 260–315 °C (500–599 °F)[10]
Density at 15 °C (59 °F) .804 kg/L (6.71 lb/US gal) .820 kg/L (6.84 lb/US gal)
Specific energy 43.15 MJ/kg 43.02 MJ/kg
Energy density 34.7 MJ/L 35.3 MJ/L

Steel still won't bend at those temperatures according to a steel EXPERT...
rense.com...

Well as far as Nano Thermite....you are pretty far off on it not being invented...LOL

Nano-thermite
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A Nano-thermite or "super-thermite"[1] is a metastable intermolecular composite (MICs) characterized by a particle size of its main constituents, a metal and a metal oxide, under 100 Nanometers. This allows for high and customizable reaction rates. Nano-thermites contain an oxidizer and a reducing agent, which are intimately mixed on the nanometer scale. MICs, including nano-thermitic materials, are a type of reactive materials investigated for military use, as well as for general applications involving propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics.

What distinguishes MICs from traditional thermites is that the oxidizer and a reducing agent, normally iron oxide and aluminium, are in the form of extremely fine powders (nanoparticles). This dramatically increases the reactivity relative to micrometre-sized powder thermite. As the mass transport mechanisms that slow down the burning rates of traditional thermites are not so important at these scales, the reactions become kinetically controlled and proceed much more quickly.

Even Wiki has it
en.wikipedia.org...

And here are photos of it from 9/11 building residue...
thewe.cc...

NEXT!!!

Jet fuel is easily within the temperature to cause steel to become malleable.And dont quote wiki as a source im telling you a scientist didnt write that. If they did would explain there is no such thing we can pulverize aluminum for example getting the particulates very small but this is not nano thermite since an oxidizing agent still needs to be added. Then is we add one the smaller we make the particles the quicker it burns its flash point becomes immediate. What this means as far as using it to melt steel for example is the finer the powder the better the reaction the better the reaction the less time it has to do damage.Or in other words even if you did create nano thermite again doesnt exist show me a paper the less damage it does. An example of this is a flame everyone has passed there hand through a flame without being burned. The reason why is even though its hot its for such a short period of time you remain unburned. Thermite is the same way the shorter the better the reaction the less time it has to do damage.

reply to post by dragonridr


Wow rhetoric without facts....I put scientific data showing jet fuel in air CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO THE TYPE OF STEEL BEAMS!!!

Niels Harrit: We found nano-thermite in the rubble. We are not saying only nano-thermite was used. Thermite itself dates back to 1893. It is a mixture of aluminum and rust-powder, which react to create intense heat. The reaction produces iron, heated to 2500 °C. This can be used to do welding. It can also be used to melt other iron. Nanotechnology makes things smaller. So in nano-thermite, this powder from 1893 is reduced to tiny particles, perfectly mixed. When these react, the intense heat develops much more quickly. Nano-thermite can be mixed with additives to give off intense heat, or serve as a very effective explosive. It contains more energy than dynamite, and can be used as rocket fuel.

How do you dispute what was found in the rubble and scientists that claim 3 weeks later the molten steel was nearly 2000 degrees F

I'm sorry but I can't understand a single thing from your last few sentences that ramble ans say nothing.

Did you even read the link???
Kathy McCray, B.S. Metallurgical Engineering:
You must have had a much hotter heat source to get 2700 degrees Fahrenheit in order to melt the steel, melt the iron, to get these iron molten spheres.
Your heat source must be something like a chemical reaction, an exothermic chemical reaction.
In the case of Thermite that reacts at 4500 degrees Fahrenheit.

Please read the entire link as it answers ALL questions....

thewe.cc...

reply to post by SLAYER69

SLAYER69

I'd suggest reading the rest of Phages replies.

While you're at it..why not challenge the numbers the OP has shown and show us where he is wrong about them and why you would claim that?

He did, try reading the rest of phages replies. Just a thought

As a matter of fact he showed how the OP was mistaken by using the OPs own sources and with basic logic. Which tends to be tossed out in favor of speculative theory, conjecture and 'Probabilities"

I mean..personally, i've absolutely no idea of the capabilities of a 767 at any height, so without exhaustive research on airframes, wind tunnel testing and engines etc of said aircraft, i don't actually know if the what the OP is saying is accurate or not and so i for one, would appreciate the correct information being presented by those who do know, instead of snyde oneupmanship retorts.

I'd read the rest of the thread if I were you, The OP posts information and Phage and others have dissected it, showing exactly where the flaws are in this Conspiracy paradigm.

Since you claim you're all about intolerance to ignorance, the implication being you wish nothing more than to correct misinterpretation / inaccuracies and reveal the actual facts, feel free to go ahead and show us why his numbers are an example of ignorance (unless you already have further along the thread, in which case, thanks) Unless short quips targeted at others' interpretations is more your thing, then carry on.

He did, again, using the OPs sources. You wouldn't know this unless you've read the rest of their exchanges. Phage would ask a question the OP would either sidestep with a massive cut and paste campaign or answer a question with a question, or in some cases completely ignore the query.

It's fairly simple..either a 767 could have reasonably performed speeds and course corrections that were stated to have occurred on 9/11, or they couldn't have...it's one or the other.

Exactly, this is why it's absolutely critical for those who are after the truth to search out the unbiased truth and not muddy the water with claims and counter claims based on Conspiracy Blogs and what not.

I think Slayer that you might possible be "brown nosing" a little bit yourself or, giving Phage way to much credit as some ultimate authority in all things science

SLAYER69

InTheFlesh1980
Phage, I really respect your scientific approach on a lot of topics. You truly are a highly intelligent individual.

Stop brown nosing, it will get you nowhere in life and I doubt it impresses him.

Because here is where he disqualified himself as an authority in these matters, when he assumed and claimed that the MMO of .86 Mach applies at all altitudes while stating that EAS is irrelevant in terms of understanding the dynamic pressures involved at low altitude where the air is 2/3rds thicker than at 30,000 feet.

Phage
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Vmo/Mmo limits for a standard 767 are 360/0.86M. And this is how it is calculated

Good. Now, what is the Mach number for 510 knots at 700 feet? Is it greater than 0.86?

When it was already clearly stated that the max operating limit, not to be confused with the Vd structural limit of 420 knots is - VMO 360 knots/MMO .86 Mach

And i don't intend any of this to come off in a highly biased snarky manner, just the facts nothing more, nothing less, which cannot be effectively distorted or ignored.

Best Regards,

NAM

reply to post by semperfortis

and as my education is in Psychology

There have been others on this planet that thought they knew what everyone else did not. List?
Adolph Hitler
Napoleon
Benito Mussolini

Oh dear, psychology...

so no doubt you are acutely aware of what u just did...tarnishing any one who questions with the "Hilter brush"

Reductio ad Hitlerum
en.wikipedia.org...


Why not just call them holocaust deniers as well or anti-zionists...thats right just go straight for the jugular



"most celebrated
best and brightest engineers"

care to quote any percentages?


PS google "psychology not a science"
But thats another topic altogether


A"ccording to Strauss, the Reductio ad Hitlerum is an informal fallacy that consists of trying to refute an opponent's view by comparing it to a view that would be held by Adolf Hitler or the Nazi Party."

pretty low in my opinion

reply to post by Phage

Phage

Here's a little something for you to chew on.

Vne/Mmo - Mach .80 (Never Exceed/Maximum Mach Number)

www.flywestwind.com...

The yellow arc terminates at the red line—VNE—the velocity that should never be exceeded. VNE is 90 percent or less of the demonstrated dive velocity (VD), a calculated value and/or the speed at which a test pilot flew the plane with no vibration or buffeting severe enough to result in structural damage.
flighttraining.aopa.org...

If you feel that Vmo/Mmo is the limit for all altitudes, do you also think the Concorde can fly at Mach 2.04 at Sea Level?

The manufacturer doesn't think so..
lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk...

Your first source was made by some kids playing Microsoft Flight Simulator...

www.flywestwind.com...

Your second source is based on light aircraft. Jets do not use Vne anymore since the 1960's as the manufacturer does not want pilots anywhere near it. However, from your own AOPA source -

"Don't think there's a 10-percent safety buffer past VNE. A baby's breath will cause the aircraft to exceed its limit load factor, and structural damage will result"

Just Google Vmo/Mmo.. there are tons of articles/discussions out there explaining how Vmo is a limit for low altitude, and MMO is for higher altitudes..

Starting with FAR Part 25.1505
www.ecfr.gov...:1.0.1.3.11.7.198.3&idno=14

Phage
reply to post by jhn7537

 

I don't find ignorance amusing.

MadMax9
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

And yet it was traced on radar from the time it was loaded with passengers and flew into the tower...

Radar Swapping is possible and it takes place when the transponder beacon is switched during the point of planes crossing paths at different altitudes, and it was shortly after flight 175's beacon was changed twice in a minute, that this rather extraordinary feat of aeronautical acrobatics and extreme performance, began, as the plane turned and began it's descent with ridiculously precise target acquisitioning.

NTSB Releases 9/11 Flight Information
www2.gwu.edu...

"During the descent from 12,000 feet to 6,000 feet, the aircraft groundspeed remained between 500 - 520 knots. As the aircraft made it's descent to 1000 feet, it accelerated (there goes Zaphod58's hypothesis about self propulsion at level flight on final approach) and impacted World Trade Center tower #2 at approximately 510 knots groundspeed.

Radar_Data_Impact_Speed_Study--AA11,_UA175 (pdf)

Flight "UA 175": An Incredible Journey

In August 2006 the NTSB, in response to a NSA FOI request, finally released details of the 9/11 flights.

NTSB Releases 9/11 Flight Information

When going over the report in reference to another thread it suddenly dawned on me how incredible a journey the flight of United Airlines 175 actually was. Report Here

The report includes a flight profile, a ground track, A pressure altitude graph derived from radar mode C returns, and a transcript of radio communications.

The following is a "blow by blow" of the alleged plane's astonishing flight, taken from the report:

United Airlines Flight 175 departed Boston Logan at 8:14AM

It reached 31,000 feet at 8:33AM

The final radio transmission was at 8:42AM

Beacon Codes were changed twice within one minute at 8:47AM (possible point of a "radar swap")

UA 175 started into a climbing turn to the South East at 8:51AM

It reached 33,500 feet at 8:53AM

UA 175 began its descent while continuing its turn

It turned towards North East while its descent continued

The "plane" was now headed towards WTC2 in a direction of North east (45 degrees)
at what is termed point (G)

Its altitude at this point was 25,000 feet at 8:58 AM

It was at 24,000 feet at 8:59AM

18,500 feet at 9:00AM

15,000 feet at 9:01AM

9,000 feet at 9:02AM

The "plane" is presumed to have struck its target at a height under 1000 feet at 9:02 40 AM. Mission Accomplished.

(END FLIGHT SUMMARY)

Now point (G) where UA 175 starts heading straight for WTC2 is just east of Trenton, NJ. The targeted tower is approximately sixty miles away at this point.

This is incredible target acquisitioning, but just as incredible is the fact that according to the NTSB report, which was founded on three sets of radar data ( FAA, JFK Approach and USAF) the alleged plane covered the sixty mile distance in approximately 4 minutes and 40 seconds.

This aircraft was traveling at 10 miles per minute or 600 knots average over 4.5 mins! Holy crap!

Not to mention that the plane was descending 24,000 feet in this last 4.7 minutes-- thus officially going well over the maximum speed in progressively thicker air for a sustained duration.

So officially-- we have a plane descending a mile a minute, significantly over the maximum possible speed for the aircraft-- ALL officially done by a pilot who has never flown this type of aircraft before-- and somehow he manages to steer the plane perfectly to hit precisely a very narrow target (the WTC south tower)?

Then, we have the admission from Boeing that a 767 simply can't go over 500 mph near sea level.

*Somewhat curiously, is that that KNJP, near where UA175 supposedly made its last turn, is the former Naval Air Warfare Center in Warminster, PA. This is another odd link between 9/11 and the Navy.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by LaElvis


Ok ill play i actually work in a lab so lets talk about chemicals. First the red paint chips i had to laugh do you know why the so called nano thermite was found? It was expected why been found in other fires this was a weay for them to identify the dust. As for the lab report i had to laugh they identified red paint as thermite. But no one in the lab bothered to ask themselves whats in the primer they use on steel. Guess what shocker here the red primer contains materials similar to thermite namely aluminum and magnesium been in paints for decades in primers. They use a binder first grey i might add funny the chips they found red one side grey on the other.

If you want to go over the lab report i will ill find the one i had showing the thermite to be rust. Now there is a conspiracy with 9/11 and everyone is missing it. The real conspiracy is it was the Saudi Arabian government that attacked us on 9/11.They paid for it they trained the terrorists and it wasnt some outside group in saudi arabia they were people in there government.This is what they were hiding from the American People all along!

nypost.com...

PS thought id add this quote for you.

Mark Loizeaux, Chief of Controlled Demolition, Inc. (in their own words - the greatest contr. demo. company worldwide) said: "Nanothermite does not exist. It's just a technology from 'phantasy land'. If it would exist - i would know it!" fromThe BBC's The Third Tower

Again please show me amy scientist or lab claiming to mave made this nano thermite. You bought into a conspiracy of a product that doesnt exist. Even when you read the original lab report they dontcall it nano thermite they say similar to. Then go on to say might be nano thermite but they dont have anything to compare it to. Why because it doesnt exist at all. As far as your WIKI page you posted as evidence go look at the discussions for it scientists are informing WIKI its bogus but i doubt theyll do anything because people hit the page all the time.

TheConstruKctionofLight
A"ccording to Strauss, the Reductio ad Hitlerum is an informal fallacy that consists of trying to refute an opponent's view by comparing it to a view that would be held by Adolf Hitler or the Nazi Party."

pretty low in my opinion

Psychologically, it might not be entirely off topic..

All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

- Adolf Hitler, On the "Big Lie", Mein Kampf, [p.134]

What i find funny, is that most people who will tell you to "get a grip" and "stop being silly" actually don't involve themselves in any way with any view of the incident, or familiarise themselves with basic research. People who do their research and align with the official story should theoretically be such a small minority, that they would be the ones worried to voice their opinions - worried about being critisized. However, the general population who accept the official story continue to downplay the biggest attack on the home land of the largest superpower, as if it's not really an issue worth debating, while maintaining the ABSOLUTE view that it was a genuine attack - sort of like nodding your head and signing a contract without reading anything, because all the small writing "must be relevant to my interests...". Moreover, those with informed beliefs usually show a bit of humility and refrain from the immature "you're stupid" posts. Tldr: Sheep

reply to post by xxdaniel21



Cognitive Dissonance

Its like the Japanese attcak on Pearl Harbour. Sufficient warning signs were there, did Roosevelt ask the Navy at PEarl Harbour to take a hit? I dont think so. But all together the ac6tions lead to a predetrmined goal. Get the US into WWII


Taking operation Northwood,
S P Huntingtons "Clash Of Civilazions"

Colin Powells Weapons of Mass "delusion"
Project For A New American Century

The creation and destruction of American puppets Hussein (Iraq) and the Shah (Iran)

altogether starts to paint a broad picture that terrorism is useful to key players in the game of expansionist resource led theft and invasion of sovereign nations.

To the debunkers of Twin Tower conspiracies...you would be well reminded

But you must remember, my fellow-citizens, that eternal vigilance by the people is the price of liberty, and that you must pay the price if you wish to secure the blessing. It behooves you, therefore, to be watchful in your States as well as in the Federal Government." -- Andrew Jackson, Farewell Address, March 4, 1837

Smedley Darlington Butler[1] (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps, the highest rank authorized at that time, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history.

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations. A final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.

In 1935, Butler wrote a book titled War Is a Racket, where he described and criticized the workings of the United States in its foreign actions and wars, such as those he was a part of, including the American corporations and other imperialist motivations behind them.

So 1935 to 2001, you dont think that 65 years is sufficient time for them to perfect their shenanigans?

reply to post by dragonridr


Chemical Engineer here, and jet fuel didn't do nothing except smoke and mirrors. I wish I could find the link to the fact that the EXACT same floors that were hit on both buildings underwent a "special" maintenance program in the months before. Everything from supposed steel reinforcement plates, to "rust" proof painting. If you use a hypothesis as to how the temperatures got to 2000 degrees F, I think the military grade Nano Thermite stories are the most logical.

I agree on the NY Post story.

Did you see this link??
www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

It came from here, Devvy Kidd is brilliant, and her Obama Archives are spot on.
www.devvy.com...

What people fail to see this for what it was.....the ultimate tool for control of the masses with their permission!!!

Scare the # out of them, and then pass laws to spy on them, control them, and say it's all in the name of protecting them.

Thanks for the comments I appreciate a civil debate.

defcon5

NewAgeMan
So .... some anonymous person on the Youtubes named "roderm" claims the low-speed pass was at 500 knots and you automatically believe it?

Unless the commentator is lying this old B727 is doing 390knots in this video:

here is another 757 at 450+ knots:

Oh dear, you did it again!

As to the first one, 390 knots for a 727 is well within it's limits. A 727 is a faster airplane than the 767.

As to the second one - that's the SAME AIRSHOW from before, from a different angle!!!

defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

RNZAF 757 high speed low pass, 500knots at 50m...

The 767 is essentially the same aircraft with a slightly larger fuselage.
Just because the manufacturers don't recommend that you do something does not mean that the aircraft will suddenly fall apart because you exceed the specs. Aircraft exceed their specs all the time with no harmful results.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

rnzaf.proboards.com...

---------
falcon124
Leading Aircraftman

A friend was wondering how fast the RNZAF 757 is going during its high-speed pass at airshows (as per this YouTube video):

He was wondering about 250kts but I thought it was more like 300-350kts. Does anyone here know what speed the guys are doing?

Aside from videos on the 'net, I've seen the display at a few Avalon Airshows and it always looks & sounds fantastic!
------------

Barnsey
Group Captain

A compatriot was the guy that helped develop the display, and I seem to remember him saying they did it at Vmo, which I understand is around 340kts.

rnzaf.proboards.com...

Also from the RNZAF thread....

"I was the captain of that particular shot, filmed during a Squadron open-day a couple of years ago. It's part of a routine that has been performed over thirty times at various airshows and practices around the world including RIAT Fairford 2003, Kemble 2006, RAF Waddington 2006, Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004, Avalon 2005.

The low pass is flown into wind at 350 knots (indicated) and 100 feet above the runway. It's a 2g pull up to between 45 and 55 degrees nose up pitch (although there has been higher) and the zoom climb ends at an altitude between 8000 and 10000 feet depending on the type of pull up used. The sequence does not end with a loop as some of the readers speculate, but in fact with a 60 degree wingover at around 220 knots. It is easily possible to enhance this maneouver with a steeper climb and bank but there is no need - it is spectacular already, and safe."

soulwaxer
This is the official hollywood movie script:

Osama Bin Laden: "I'm gonna hit the US in their most secured buildings, using an incredibly complex and risky plan involving airplanes for which I have no qualified pilots. But what the hell, Allah is on my side so what's to worry, eh?"

(Turns out Allah was indeed on his side, because he managed to bypass US defense and hit 75% of his targets, including one of the most secured buildings in the world. He even got so lucky as to make 3 skyscrapers explode into scrap steel and dust by only hitting 2 of them.)

A Normal Person: "Uuhm, OK, and what is your motive for all this insanity?"

Osama Bin Laden: "Well, I hate that those Americans and the rest of the west are free, and so what choice have I got but to start a war with them? I want to piss them off so bad that they'll come over here, bomb the crap out of my brothers and sisters, and hunt me and my boys down like wild animals, with drones and what not, to finally end up fake-buried in the sea."


soulwaxer

edit on 30-12-2013 by soulwaxer because: (no reason given)

hey wasnt that on south park.......HAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHA

RomeByFire

Phage
reply to post by jhn7537

 

I don't find ignorance amusing.

Nevermind.

Just like EVERY other 9/11 thread, nothing more than a pissing match.

I have no desire to stick around and watch people fling baseless insinuations at one another because everyone thinks everyone else is wrong and thinks *their* opinion is the right one.

edit on 30-12-2013 by RomeByFire because: (no reason given)

BYE!


By the way Phage's comments weren't baseless, science and physics aren't 'baseless'.
One other thing, this same subject has been discussed on ATS before and if there is any "baseless" information it's saying 'an unmodified 767 can't fly at 510 k at sea level'
As a pilot, I can guarantee you can exceed that number if you are dropping from a higher altitude, you will get wing flutter as the angle of the wings aren't designed for speeds approaching the speed of sound.
These terrorists didn't care about putting too much stress on the wings!
Do you remember the Egypt air crash of a 767? The airframe stayed intact in the dive until after the plane passed mach 1 in the dive.
500+ MPH is easily obtainable in a Boeing 767 at sea level if your intention is to crash it!

LaElvis
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Chemical Engineer here, and jet fuel didn't do nothing except smoke and mirrors. I wish I could find the link to the fact that the EXACT same floors that were hit on both buildings underwent a "special" maintenance program in the months before. Everything from supposed steel reinforcement plates, to "rust" proof painting. If you use a hypothesis as to how the temperatures got to 2000 degrees F, I think the military grade Nano Thermite stories are the most logical.

I agree on the NY Post story.

Did you see this link??
www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...

It came from here, Devvy Kidd is brilliant, and her Obama Archives are spot on.
www.devvy.com...

What people fail to see this for what it was.....the ultimate tool for control of the masses with their permission!!!

Scare the # out of them, and then pass laws to spy on them, control them, and say it's all in the name of protecting them.

Thanks for the comments I appreciate a civil debate.

Well i agree with alot you said except you should know theres no such thing as nanothermite if you are a chemical engineer. Tell the truth we can pulverize say aluminum or magnesium making it mere microns but that doesnt make thermite. Since we have to bind it with an oxidizer easy when its huge chunks near impossible when we get to micro levels.Now as i said whats being covered up is the fact we were attacked by Saudi Arabia it was even in an CIA report. The Bush administration blocked every attempt to show they were involved. You must at this point ask yourselves why? ill leave that up to you to decide but i will shows there was something more important to our government that finding the attackers. And its very scarry to wonder what that could be. Do to what i do ill stop there.

never mind..

need to respond to a host of objections - pulling it together. carry on..


Happy New Year!

reply to post by NavyDoc

NavyDoc

even if he flies a 757, is not exactly an aeronautical engineer.

Capt. Russ Wittenberg, U.S. Air Force – Former Air Force fighter pilot, over 100 combat missions. Commercial pilot for Pan Am and United Airlines for 35 years. Had previously flown the actual two United airplanes that were hijacked on 9/11.

Article: "'The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S." Wittenberg convincingly argued there was absolutely no possibility that Flight 77 could have "descended 7,000 feet in two minutes, all the while performing a steep 270 degree banked turn before crashing into the Pentagon's first floor wall."

"For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible," said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737s through 767s, it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying.


Audio Interview, Capt.Russ Wittenberg, 9/16/04
M3U (download)
RAM (download)
MP3 (plays)

911underground.com...

NewAgeMan
9/11-The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training
by Nila Sagadevan, Aeronautical Engineer.
Veterens Today

www.veteranstoday.com...

Audio Interview
chemp3.com...

reply to post by dragonridr


How can you repeatedly say there is no such thing as Nano Thermite??? It is being produced in many places and in many different ways. The use for 9/11 was probably a Military type not used or known to private businesses.

MICs or Super-thermites are generally developed for military use, propellants, explosives, and pyrotechnics. Because of their highly increased reaction rate, nanosized thermitic materials are being researched by the U.S. military with the aim of developing new types of bombs that are several times more powerful than conventional explosives. Nanoenergetic materials can store higher amounts of energy than conventional energetic materials and can be used in innovative ways to tailor the release of this energy. Thermobaric weapons are considered to be a promising application of nanoenergetic materials. Research into military applications of nano-sized materials began in the early 1990s.

In military research, aluminium-molybdenum oxide, aluminium-Teflon and aluminium-copper(II) oxide have received considerable attention. Other compositions tested were based on nanosized RDX and with thermoplastic elastomers. PTFE or other fluoropolymer can be used as a binder for the composition. Its reaction with the aluminium, similar to magnesium/teflon/viton thermite, adds energy to the reaction. Of the listed compositions, the Al-KMnO4 one shows the highest pressurization rates, followed by orders of magnitude slower Al-MoO3 and Al-CuO, followed by yet slower Al-Fe2O3.

Nanoparticles can be prepared by spray drying from a solution, or in case of insoluble oxides, spray pyrolysis of solutions of suitable precursors. The composite materials can be prepared by sol-gel techniques or by conventional wet mixing and pressing.

Similar but not identical systems are nano-laminated pyrotechnic compositions, or energetic nanocomposites. In these systems, the fuel and oxidizer is not mixed as small particles, but deposited as alternating thin layers. For example, an energetic multilayer structure may be coated with an energetic booster material. Through selection of materials (the range of which includes virtually all metals) and size scale of the layers, functional properties of the multilayer structures can be controlled, such as the reaction front velocity, the reaction initiation temperature, and the amount of energy delivered by a reaction of alternating unreacted layers of the multilayer structure.

A method for producing nanoscale, or ultra fine grain (UFG) aluminum powders, a key component of most nano-thermitic materials, is the dynamic gas-phase condensation method, pioneered by Wayne Danen and Steve Son at Los Alamos National Laboratory. A variant of the method is being used at the Indian Head Division of the Naval Surface Warfare Center. Another production method for nanoaluminum powder is the pulsed plasma process developed by NovaCentrix (formerly Nanotechnologies). The powders made by both processes are indistinguishable. A critical aspect of the production is the ability to produce particles of sizes in the tens of nanometer range, as well as with a limited distribution of particle sizes. In 2002, the production of nano-sized aluminum particles required considerable effort, and commercial sources for the material were limited. Current production levels are now beyond 100 kg/month.

An application of the sol-gel method, developed by Randall Simpson, Alexander Gash and others at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, can be used to make the actual mixtures of nanostructured composite energetic materials. Depending on the process, MICs of different density can be produced. Highly porous and uniform products can be achieved by supercritical extraction.

Nanoscale composites are easier to ignite than traditional thermites. A nichrome bridgewire can be used in some cases. Other means of ignition can include flame or laser pulse. Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) is developing super-thermite electric matches that use comparatively low ignition currents and resist friction, impact, heat and static discharge.

MICs have been investigated as a possible replacement for lead (e.g. lead styphnate, lead azide) containing percussion caps and electric matches. Compositions based on Al-Bi2O3 tend to be used. PETN may be optionally added. MICs can be also added to high explosives to modify their properties. Aluminium is typically added to explosives to increase their energy yield. Addition of small amount of MIC to aluminium powder increases overall combustion rate, acting as a burn rate modifier.

The products of a thermite reaction, resulting from ignition of the thermitic mixture, are usually metal oxides and elemental metals. At the temperatures prevailing during the reaction, the products can be solid, liquid or gaseous, depending on the components of the mixture. Super-thermite electric matches developed by LANL can create simple sparks, hot slag, droplet, or flames as thermal-initiating outputs to ignite other incendiaries or explosives.

wulff

As a pilot, I can guarantee you can exceed that number if you are dropping from a higher altitude, you will get wing flutter as the angle of the wings aren't designed for speeds approaching the speed of sound.
These terrorists didn't care about putting too much stress on the wings!
Do you remember the Egypt air crash of a 767? The airframe stayed intact in the dive until after the plane passed mach 1 in the dive.
500+ MPH is easily obtainable in a Boeing 767 at sea level if your intention is to crash it!

That's false re: Egypt Air 990 (see quote below) and, there's simply no way that any unmodified commercial airliner can exceed the Vd limit, by 90 knots. In all similar precedents, including EA990, they experience structural failure not far at all beyond the Vd structural limit, for a Boeing 767, 420 knots, as distinguished from the VMO or max operating limit of 360 knots.

Furthermore, flight control and piloting becomes rather problematic at such speeds, let alone high precision flying, even in terms of the responsiveness of the controls and control surfaces. It's absurd to think, if you believe that the plane could hold together, that it could be piloted by someone who had never flown in the real thing, with very limited flight training - utterly impossible according to "heavy" pilots and aeronautical engineers, but you ought to be aware of that as a pilot yourself.. although there's a big time difference between light aircraft and heavy aircraft, which i presume that you don't have experience piloting.

NewAgeMan
reply to post by neformore

 

Egypt Air 990 (EA990) achieved a maximum speed during an uncontrolled descent, of .99 Mach at about 22,000 feet altitude, and eventually lost it's engine (structural failure) nearer to sea level (as the engine was found about 1200 meters from the main crash area) - at about 425 knots.

Ref: www.ntsb.gov...