Atheism is an absurd idea that produces mental illness

reply to post by BlueMule


Hi, I think I can hold both of those concepts in my head together, yes.
I don't equate psi phenomena with God, and so I can be both an atheist and interested in parapsychology.
It's a good point you raise, however.

reply to post by BlueMule


I personally dont believe in anything "para" or "super", but that has nothing to do with my atheism.

These prefixes refer to events that are outside of what we understand and can explain. But there were lots of events that earlier people described as supernatural or divine. We can now explain most of these things as natural occurances; events that are based on the physical chemistry of matter. All physical reactions are chemistry whether living or inanimate. So if someone were to develop the ability to move things with his mind or read others thoughts, this would still be a natural occurance based on the physical laws of our universe.

So far there has never been a confirmed demonstration of anything close. And if there was he could win a million dollars from the james randi foundation.

Where did the OP go? Dropped a bomb and left.

Woodcarver
reply to post by BlueMule

 

I personally dont believe in anything "para" or "super", but that has nothing to do with my atheism.

How can you be so sure?

These prefixes refer to events that are outside of what we understand and can explain.

Perhaps, but they aren't outside of what we can experience.

So far there has never been a confirmed demonstration of anything close. And if there was he could win a million dollars from the james randi foundation.

Well, I'll be blunt. When someone says something like that, it tells me that they have not taken the time to personally delve into the massive body of parapsychological literature. It tells me that they are relying on an unscientific publicity stunt (the MDC) to prop up their flawed worldview. A worldview which can't accommodate the full range of human experience.

reply to post by bwinwright

Just as all Christians are not Catholic, or Baptist, or Fundamentalist. Not all atheists can be put in a box, labeled, and stereotyped. Atheists, like anyone else, have a variety of perspectives regarding reality. I am indeed an atheist, because I dare say that just because there's a possibility that an intelligence created all that we know to exist, does not make that intelligence a god, and therefore worthy of worship or admiration. Therefore, I reject the very notion of gods, goddesses, divinity, and deity.

I have absolute irrefutable proof that there is no such thing as a god or gods, and there never was.

I cannot and will not show you this proof, however, and you must rely completely on faith that this proof exists.

If I am questioned about providing this proof, I will then respond with quotes from books that use themselves as proof of themselves without ever really addressing the issue of the original proof.

I'm wondering if any of this sounds familiar?

Merry Christmas everyone ...op too .:>)

reply to post by BlueMule


Well you prob shouldnt assume such things. But i did explain why i am sure. The prefixes ar misnomers used to describe events that we lack the ability to describe the causality of.

If some event can be demonstrated over and over then it can be studied in a physical sense. So then becoming a natural occurance.

So far none have met this standard.

I feel like i just repeated my earlier post though. Im happy to expound on my thoughts anytime.

ArnhemKnight
You have a misconstrued understanding of what atheism is.

To be fair, it seems you have one as well.

ArnhemKnight
It’s lucky that atheism isn’t a belief then, isn’t it.

Technically, it is a belief; a belief that "God" doesn't exist.

The way you describe your own feelings and beliefs, you would be an agnostic, not an atheist.

As for the OP, I think the Overlord said it best... The "rant opens with assumptions that are wrong, hence the remaining premise is based on errant assumptions."

reply to post by bwinwright


I say this as a Christian person, just for clarities sake:

I really must protest against this particular line of reasoning (which I only refer to as reasoning at all out of a total lack of inspiration as to how else to approach it, although I believe that it has no actual reasoning in it what so ever).

Mental illness does not spring from ideology, whether that ideology professes to faith in a creator God or gods, or a belief in none what so ever. Mental illness comes about when a persons brain chemistry and behaviour are retarded, or negatively modified in a way which becomes a danger to themselves, and others, over either the long or short term. Belief in God is not armour against the possibility of falling victim to mental illness, and nor is atheism, or any other commitment to a certain paradigm by which one might choose to live their life.

The ONLY thing that faith affects, is what happens in the hereafter, because here on Earth, we are all, Christian and Muslim, Atheist and Buddhist, and everyone else together, forced to chow down on the same turd sandwiches, day after day, month after month, year after year until we are dead. That is life. To suggest that a persons choice to abstain from belief in a creator is a route to mental illness is absurd in and of itself!

It is FAR more readily arguable that some atheists follow that path, because previous experiences with organised religion, have affected them so negatively and so deeply, that they would prefer not to entertain any part of that lifestyle, and even though I believe in God, pray to Jesus, worship the creator, I can well understand why that might be. Even churches which do not contain child molesting priests can have noxious groups within them, people who quietly go around deciding if one family is "right for the church" or not, shunning those they personally find unworthy. And then you add the history of abuse by religious organisations, of the young, the vulnerable, the sins committed in history by entire religious institutions, and it is no wonder what so ever, that people would turn away from that entire idea!

And mental illness affects people from all faiths, ideologies, political persuasions and sexual preferences, because it has rather less to do with an individuals professed cultural identity, and far more to do with their inner most thoughts, than it ever does about what they wear on the outside. I can only assume, that given the spurious nature of your suggestion, that your actual experience and/or technical understanding of psychology is minimal at best, because no one with even the slightest understanding of the psyche, or indeed the neurological elements of a persons psychopathology, would ever make such a totally unsupportable claim, as you just have.

reply to post by bwinwright


SnF
This is a solid rant. Just thru my own endeavors here upon and whereby I
have challenged atheisms stance of logical cognition. I simply point out
that there is an obvious supernatural event that is the fusion of inanimate
organic carbon based material and consciousness, at the beginning of every
single life.
Atheism must deny this occurs as it denies everything supernatural. The
fusion of consciousness and organic material is a supernatural event that
science will never be ableto explain because it denies the supernatural in
the first place. Therefore to deny the supernatural is highly ilogical and if
not a form of mental illness ?Then at least is highly ignorant of spiritual
consciousness. Of course mankind is spiritual by nature and to deny the
soul is to deny yourself.

Hushabye
So it's ok for the OP to say that any one that doesn't believe in a sky wizard is mentally ill, but not ok to acknowledge that they believe in an invisible sky wizard with severe jealousy and insecurity issues who thrives on death and destruction.

No action was taken. I simply asked for a week-long moratorium. Too much to ask apparently.

randyvs
reply to post by bwinwright

 

Atheism must deny this occurs as it denies everything supernatural. The
fusion of consciousness and organic material is a supernatural event that
science will never be ableto explain because it denies the supernatural in
the first place. Therefore to deny the supernatural is highly ilogical and if
not a form of mental illness ?Then at least is highly ignorant of spiritual
consciousness.

Hmm, no.

One of the most stupid things I have read today.

To deny the supernatural is highly illogical? See if that stands up in court buddy.

In fact, murder a few people in the name of god, tell them he told you too.. He exists right?
in a christian or catholic state surely you'll be pardoned as it was gods will.
But in all seriousness you''ll be arrested and probably institutionalised for believing god told you do it.
AS THAT WOULD BE CLASSED AS MENTAL ILLNESS.

Funny how that works huh.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I think the issue, as you are probably aware, is that it is a much more deeply rooted issue than just spirituality/religion.

Some would say its an intentional effect of "Divide and Conquer," and it seems to be working extraordinarily well. If people are too busy just being the inverse of what they oppose, they will be far too occupied to do anything other than that.

Taking a stance that focuses on negating another stance doesnt actually contribute anything in and of itself, other than increasing zealotry in general. That isnt specific to atheism, nor does it describe all atheists. But, it can definitely manifest through that title the same as any other stance that focuses on negating positive claims. Rather than defining our own stance independent of the us vs them, "perpetual adversary" attitude, it focuses instead on tearing the other perspective down with the ideal that it will not exist at some point due to our efforts and the world will "be a better place, free from all the atrocities that X has caused."

The problem is that its that attitude that causes the problems, and not simply a single ideology in which it might, or might not, manifest.

Woodcarver
If some event can be demonstrated over and over then it can be studied in a physical sense. So then becoming a natural occurance.

So far none have met this standard.

Well, that simply isn't true. We just need to be careful to incorporate the experimenters attitudes and expectations as variables in attempts to replicate. Anyone who is familiar with parapsychology and keeps up with it knows that. That's why I feel its safe to assume that you are not personally familiar with it. Or at least, not familiar enough.

The pattern of thought which leads you to atheism is apparently leading you to let other people do your thinking about parapsychology for you. Activists such as James Randi.

www.deanradin.com...

reply to post by randyvs


All examples of consciousness that have ever been found were products of a physical brain. Your brain is a physical template for your mind. A property of a mind is consciousness. It is a physical construct and when you go probing about in a brain you can effect your conscious in predictable and repeatable ways.

reply to post by BlueMule

Have you experienced something like telekinesis or mind reading?

Have you ever experienced a hallucination?

Or realized you were wrong about a concept and corrected your thoughts to include this new info?

Woodcarver
reply to post by BlueMule

 

Have you experienced something like telekinesis or mind reading?

Yes, many times.

Have you ever experienced a hallucination?

It seems to me that sometimes the word hallucination is a Trojan Horse hiding philosophical premises.

Or realized you were wrong about a concept and corrected your thoughts to include this new info?

Yes.

Take a year or two to read up on parapsychology yourself, and you will find that you have many thoughts to be corrected. I recommend starting with the college textbook and the link from my last post.

www.amazon.com...

reply to post by BlueMule


You are being quite rude.

I am familiar with just about everything listed in your link. And my question about hallucinations wasn't some kind of trap.

As i have experienced audible and visual hallucinations before. It is a well documented and accepted physical event.

Have you gone to the JRI and been tested? You seem to hold some animosity towards them. Or would you like to demonstrate some psychic ability for us here? Other wise you are just making unprovable claims and we can stack you in the corner with all the rest of them so we can move on.

reply to post by Taggart


That was oh so eloquently said. Pure poetry.

Woodcarver
reply to post by BlueMule

 

You are being quite rude.

Really? You should see me when I'm actually trying to be rude.

I am familiar with just about everything listed in your link.

Everything is that link is only part of that tiny bit of parapsychology which has been published this century. The tip of the iceberg.

Have you gone to the JRI and been tested? You seem to hold some animosity towards them. Or would you like to demonstrate some psychic ability for us here? Other wise you are just making unprovable claims and we can stack you in the corner with all the rest of them so we can move on.

The MDC is a mere publicity stunt. It's not scientific. You can put your faith in it if you want, but as for me I will put my faith in my experiences and the overwhelming evidence of proper parapsychology. Walk a mile in my shoes and you would too.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but it is obvious to me that you have a lot to learn about the things that your worldview can't accommodate and its obvious to me that you are placing your trust in the wrong people. But of course that's what ATSers are saying to each other about pretty much everything, isn't it. So what else is new.