Rendlesham Forest…, A Christmas Story from 1980 - Can We ‘Let it Be’?

a reply to: Baablacksheep

Well he keeps on talking about a code within a code and referencing primers all over the place. You need the primer to unlock the code within the code!

So he's talking about it all the time without people realising as I see it?

a reply to: ctj83

He's certainly not one to blow his own trumpet.

a reply to: steveywonders

Not ignoring you matey. Just pressed for time. I've seen the Thatcher memo before and it shows how weapon tech was developing. Question is whether it has anything to do with RFI?

Interesting stuff even if it doesn't.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: steveywonders

Not ignoring you matey. Just pressed for time. I've seen the Thatcher memo before and it shows how weapon tech was developing. Question is whether it has anything to do with RFI?

Interesting stuff even if it doesn't.

My thoughts exactly, interesting links but probably unrelated.

Even the non-nuclear EMP relies on non-nuclear explosion and nobody at the RFI heard any explosions that I'm aware of, and as for the other source about medium-power lasers blinding sensors, nothing described by the RFI witnesses sounds like that. Halt's starscope was blinded when he looked at the lighthouse but since it was one of the brightest lighthouses of course that's what you would expect to happen with such a bright lighthouse since looking at such a bright object is not the intended use of the starscope.

a reply to: mirageman

John claims to have been sectioned regarding weapons development from the RFI. Apparently this came as a result of his FOIA requests.

How can John, as a US citizen, be legally 'sanctioned' as he puts it, as a US Citizen?

How can documents related to a FOIA request result in a gagging order, by definition?

So he's talking about it all the time without people realising as I see it?

Yes, I know am well aware. sigh....

a reply to: ctj83

Keep questioning.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: steveywonders

Not ignoring you matey. Just pressed for time. I've seen the Thatcher memo before and it shows how weapon tech was developing. Question is whether it has anything to do with RFI?

Interesting stuff even if it doesn't.

My thoughts exactly, interesting links but probably unrelated.

Even the non-nuclear EMP relies on non-nuclear explosion and nobody at the RFI heard any explosions that I'm aware of, and as for the other source about medium-power lasers blinding sensors, nothing described by the RFI witnesses sounds like that. Halt's starscope was blinded when he looked at the lighthouse but since it was one of the brightest lighthouses of course that's what you would expect to happen with such a bright lighthouse since looking at such a bright object is not the intended use of the starscope.

Steviewonders, what if the light seen through the starscope was a generated ball of plasma?
Has anyone tried in a lab?

The Excaliber program was a joint UK USA program at the time involving anti missile defense and Lasers.

By 1980, West knew about Russian Particle beam technology and were also testing microwave weapons, including active denial systems for sensitive bases, which involves microwave weapons.

If you draw a point to point line from the Black beacon to Chicksands, it passes through the Woodbridge base, that my give a reason for the depression, arguments, a feeling of dread, and other possible mental and physical effects.

There was also discussions in 1965 by the DTIC about controlling balls of plasma on the end of Lasers for defense.
Electromagnetic Incendiaries.

These types of weapons would have been of consideration for the future SDI Program, as the USSR already had 'killer satellites in orbit' or could be launched to orbit as well as Particle beam weapons, along with Electromagnetic Incendiaries like charged balls of plasma.

originally posted by: steveywonders
Steviewonders, what if the light seen through the starscope was a generated ball of plasma?
Has anyone tried in a lab?

Ian Ridpath makes what is for me a convincing case that the "starlike' objects seen through the starscope were actually stars, which are balls of plasma. The really bright object that was flashing was the lighthouse. whether they saw any other objects besides those and the bolide I don't know but if so we don't have a good enough description for identification.

Plasma doesn't just spontaneously appear somewhere though. If the air gets a little too conductive sometimes you'll see some plasma around high-voltage power lines, and of course lightning is a form of plasma that forms when the voltage is higher than the resistivity of the atmosphere, and would be an example of what it takes to form plasma in earth's atmosphere, specifically, very high temperatures are needed at the low altitudes we are talking about with the Rendlesham Forest incident. So if you are thinking of a man-made plasma ball you have to think if what the energy source would be to generate such high temperatures to form plasma, and how you are going to get that energy from where the energy source is to where the plasma ball is, and I doubt you can explain that in terms of RFI and what witnesses described.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: steveywonders
Steviewonders, what if the light seen through the starscope was a generated ball of plasma?
Has anyone tried in a lab?

Ian Ridpath makes what is for me a convincing case that the "starlike' objects seen through the starscope were actually stars, which are balls of plasma. The really bright object that was flashing was the lighthouse. whether they saw any other objects besides those and the bolide I don't know but if so we don't have a good enough description for identification.

Plasma doesn't just spontaneously appear somewhere though. If the air gets a little too conductive sometimes you'll see some plasma around high-voltage power lines, and of course lightning is a form of plasma that forms when the voltage is higher than the resistivity of the atmosphere, and would be an example of what it takes to form plasma in earth's atmosphere, specifically, very high temperatures are needed at the low altitudes we are talking about with the Rendlesham Forest incident. So if you are thinking of a man-made plasma ball you have to think if what the energy source would be to generate such high temperatures to form plasma, and how you are going to get that energy from where the energy source is to where the plasma ball is, and I doubt you can explain that in terms of RFI and what witnesses described.

Pinch devices were among the earliest efforts in fusion power. The concept traces itself to work in the UK in the immediate post-war era, but a lack of interest led to little development until early 1950. Then, the announcement of the Huemul Project in early 1951 led to fusion efforts around the world, notably pinch devices in the UK and pinch and stellarators in the US. A number of small experiments were built at labs as various practical issues were addressed, but all of these machines demonstrated unexpected instabilities of the plasma that would cause it to hit the walls of the container vessel. The problem became known as the "kink instability"
Researchers in the UK planned a major assault on the stabilized pinch field, and started construction of ZETA in 1954. ZETA was by far the largest fusion device of its era, and equipped with all of the latest equipment. At the time, almost all fusion research was classified, so progress on ZETA was generally unknown outside the labs working on it. However, in 1956 the walls started to come down, and when they visited ZETA at Harwell, US researchers became aware that they were about to be trumped. A race broke out as teams on both sides of the Atlantic rushed to be the first to complete their stabilized pinch machines.
ZETA won the race, and by the summer of 1957 it was producing bursts of neutrons on every run. Although the scientists working on the device, and similar ones in the US and UK, were careful to point out that it was not proven, the results were nevertheless released with great fanfare as the first successful step on the path to commercial fusion energy. However, further study soon demonstrated that the measurements were misleading, and none of the machines were near fusion levels. Interest in pinch devices faded, although ZETA and its cousin Sceptre would serve for many years as experimental devices

Fusion-based propulsion
A concept of Z-pinch fusion propulsion system has been developed through collaboration between NASA and several private companies. A magnetic field, generated by a pulse discharge, compresses a plasma to fusion temperatures using the Z-pinch effect. The energy released accelerates the lithium propellant to a high speed, resulting in a specific impulse value of 19400 s and thrust of 38 kN. A magnetic nozzle is required to convert the released energy into a useful impulse. This propulsion method can significantly reduce interplanetary travel times. For example, a mission to Mars would take about 35 days one-way with a total burn time of 20 days and a burned propellant mass of 350 tonnes.

Tokamak
Although it remained relatively unknown for years, Soviet scientists used the pinch concept to develop the tokamak device. Unlike the stabilized pinch devices in the US and UK, the tokamak used considerably more energy in the stabilizing magnets, and much less in the plasma current. This reduced the instabilities due to the large currents in the plasma, and led to great improvements in stability. The results of their experiments were so good that other researchers were skeptical of them when they were first announced in full force in 1968. Members of the still-operational ZETA team were called in to verify the results. The tokamak has since gone on to become the most studied approach to controlled fusion.

John's show spoke of a unknown circle or his page did, involving a large structure of unknown origin, but foundations suggest something very big? Electromagnetic wave generator like the Z pulse power Machine in USA?

The two words 'information' and 'communication' are often used interchangeably, but they signify quite different things. Information is giving out; communication is getting through.Sydney Harris
What kind of technology was available in 1980?
By using a powerful laser and a converging lens, it is possible to ionise air locally at the point of focusing. If, for example, the lens has a focal distance of 1 metre, a bubble of plasma forms itself "miraculously" at a distance of 1 metre from the lens and seems to float in the air. By using an infrared laser, the rays of which are normally invisible to the naked eye, the result is very spectacular. But in order to project this "UFO" at great distance, it would be necessary to use a very powerful laser and a lens capable of focusing at the distance of projection. It is, therefore, more efficient to use a matrix of lasers converging towards a given point in the sky.
The first high energy lasers worked by means of carbon dioxide (CO2) and within the infrared scale. They appeared in the United States in 1968. The CO2 was inserted at one end of the laser while the residual non-toxic gases were expelled on the other side.
The first attempt to convert this into a transportable weapon was carried out by the US Army. Towards the middle of the seventies, a CO2 laser with a power of 30 kilowatts was mounted on a caterpillar-tracked vehicle LVTP-7 so as to create a "Mobile Test Unit".
www.ovnis-armee.org...

a reply to: steveywonders
What does any of this have to do with the Rendlesham forest incident?

If you have a specific reference to John's show or page, please provide the link and if show, the time reference. John himself is reading documents he doesn't understand and seems to draw unwarranted conclusions from them but if you're talking manmade tokamaks, they are huge and there were none in Rendlesham Forest. Lockheed is apparently trying to develop a 'portable" fusion reactor which might be the size of one of those big shipping containers you see stacked on ships but the last update I read suggested they are nowhere near having a working device, leaving the working devices as too large to transport.

I can not say with any certainty what those guys saw. But I can tell you with absolute certainty what I saw one night in the woods. The area I was walking through was very dense with trees and underbrush. As it thinned out I could see the moon. As the moon got brighter I saw an effect I had not anticipated. It looked like molten metal was dripping through the trees. So many branches forming narrow angles on so many trees had the effect of slicing the light up in to small slivers. Each one looked like it was moving as I walked through the forest. As the light diffused around the trees and combined in the variations of depth from so many branches it looked like it was dripping molten metal. I remember just looking at it in amazement because it looked so genuine. Of course I knew it was the moon so there was no mystery there but it was an amazing effect to witness. As for the rest of their experiences, no idea.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur
a reply to: steveywonders
What does any of this have to do with the Rendlesham forest incident?

If you have a specific reference to John's show or page, please provide the link and if show, the time reference. John himself is reading documents he doesn't understand and seems to draw unwarranted conclusions from them but if you're talking manmade tokamaks, they are huge and there were none in Rendlesham Forest. Lockheed is apparently trying to develop a 'portable" fusion reactor which might be the size of one of those big shipping containers you see stacked on ships but the last update I read suggested they are nowhere near having a working device, leaving the working devices as too large to transport.

1. Tokamak.
I cannot find the the post i saw, but i took a screen copy a while ago. it is in the following book under 'an unexplained ring'

books.google.co.uk... SFWWfk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiwkOih1LPTAhUIYlAKHTkCD9gQ6AEIJzAB#v=onepage&q=Most%20secret%20unexplained%20ring&f=false


file:///C:/Users/Admin/Pictures/Screenshot_330.jpg (pic ref not working)

ragpickinghistory.co.uk... Another picture ref.

2. Microwaves.
The Active Denial System (ADS) is a non-lethal, directed-energy weapon developed by the U.S. military, designed for area denial, perimeter security and crowd control. Informally, the weapon is also called the heat ray since it works by heating the surface of targets, such as the skin of targeted human subjects.
www.google.co.uk... 4&dpr=1.25

a reply to: steveywonders

I am not sure any of this has anything to do with the Rendlesham incident. It could be. But the problem most of us have is that often a lot of science, (or pseudo-science) starts to enter the equation as people start coming up with all sorts of theories.

For instance some interesting visual effects can be achieved by a fog screen set up.



Perhaps some odd effects were going on caused by the Orfordness lighthouse, the Shipwash lightship, the celestial events and the meteorological conditions (localised fog on a crisp English winter night)?

These effects are not hard to recreate by anyone with a little technical knowhow.

I think the problem is that a lot of the theories thrown into the hat are beyond the comprehension of the layman and your average person with an interest in ufology. Look at all the various topics you need to be versed in when delving into this case. EM effects, radiation, biology, optics, NATO military policies, Cold War history, geography of the Suffolk area in 1980, binary code, ASCII, mapping co-ordinates, human psychology..............


Oh and if you want to display pictures then you have to upload them to ATS. I couldn't find a recent guide as to how to do it.

The basics are that you have to use the arrow highlighted in blue (see above) and then the "Upload" function. Then click on the picture uploaded and copy the "BBcode for use in post:" once you have uploaded a picture....you can then paste the code into your response.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: steveywonders

I am not sure any of this has anything to do with the Rendlesham incident. It could be. But the problem most of us have is that often a lot of science, (or pseudo-science) starts to enter the equation as people start coming up with all sorts of theories.

For instance some interesting visual effects can be achieved by a fog screen set up.

Perhaps some odd effects were going on caused by the Orfordness lighthouse, the Shipwash lightship, the celestial events and the meteorological conditions (localised fog on a crisp English winter night)?

These effects are not hard to recreate by anyone with a little technical knowhow.

I think the problem is that a lot of the theories thrown into the hat are beyond the comprehension of the layman and your average person with an interest in ufology. Look at all the various topics you need to be versed in when delving into this case. EM effects, radiation, biology, optics, NATO military policies, Cold War history, geography of the Suffolk area in 1980, binary code, ASCII, mapping co-ordinates, human psychology..............


Oh and if you want to display pictures then you have to upload them to ATS. I couldn't find a recent guide as to how to do it.

The basics are that you have to use the arrow highlighted in blue (see above) and then the "Upload" function. Then click on the picture uploaded and copy the "BBcode for use in post:" once you have uploaded a picture....you can then paste the code into your response.

That's a great help. thanks.

The US military explored the idea of using holograms during the 1991 Gulf War to deceive the Iraqis, but did not pursue it for technical reasons. One idea was to project a hologram of Allah several hundred feet in size over Baghdad, but this would take a mirror in space more than a mile square, plus huge projectors and power sources.

I did see a report on a project in 1994
www.historycommons.org...

One other thing. Masers not always lasers. Gyrotron.

en.wikipedia.org...

A gyrotron is a high-power linear-beam vacuum tube which generates millimeter-wave electromagnetic waves by the cyclotron resonance of electrons in a strong magnetic field. Output frequencies range from about 20 to 250 GHz, covering wavelengths from microwave to the edge of the terahertz gap. Typical output powers range from tens of kilowatts to 1–2 megawatts. Gyrotrons can be designed for pulsed or continuous operation.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I can not say with any certainty what those guys saw. But I can tell you with absolute certainty what I saw one night in the woods. The area I was walking through was very dense with trees and underbrush. As it thinned out I could see the moon. As the moon got brighter I saw an effect I had not anticipated. It looked like molten metal was dripping through the trees. So many branches forming narrow angles on so many trees had the effect of slicing the light up in to small slivers. Each one looked like it was moving as I walked through the forest. As the light diffused around the trees and combined in the variations of depth from so many branches it looked like it was dripping molten metal. I remember just looking at it in amazement because it looked so genuine. Of course I knew it was the moon so there was no mystery there but it was an amazing effect to witness. As for the rest of their experiences, no idea.

Very interesting comment! Thanks for sharing, I hadn't really thought of the "dripping molten metal" it in those terms but you've given me something to think about. I think they admitted the molten metal must have been an illusion because they never found any such molten metal.

a reply to: steveywonders

OK here's the picture from your link:


Here's the problem with saying this had something to do with RFI. If whatever was on that circle was involved, I'd expect the witnesses to say they saw something near the lighthouse, and on Halt's tape, they don't. Actually that is a problem with all the claims (except the bolides and the "starlike objects") that the object wasn't the lighthouse, because they should have been describing an object a little to the right or a little to the left of the lighthouse, and they never did that.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I can not say with any certainty what those guys saw. But I can tell you with absolute certainty what I saw one night in the woods. The area I was walking through was very dense with trees and underbrush. As it thinned out I could see the moon. As the moon got brighter I saw an effect I had not anticipated. It looked like molten metal was dripping through the trees. So many branches forming narrow angles on so many trees had the effect of slicing the light up in to small slivers. Each one looked like it was moving as I walked through the forest. As the light diffused around the trees and combined in the variations of depth from so many branches it looked like it was dripping molten metal. I remember just looking at it in amazement because it looked so genuine. Of course I knew it was the moon so there was no mystery there but it was an amazing effect to witness. As for the rest of their experiences, no idea.

Very interesting comment! Thanks for sharing, I hadn't really thought of the "dripping molten metal" it in those terms but you've given me something to think about. I think they admitted the molten metal must have been an illusion because they never found any such molten metal.

a reply to: steveywonders

OK here's the picture from your link:


Here's the problem with saying this had something to do with RFI. If whatever was on that circle was involved, I'd expect the witnesses to say they saw something near the lighthouse, and on Halt's tape, they don't. Actually that is a problem with all the claims (except the bolides and the "starlike objects") that the object wasn't the lighthouse, because they should have been describing an object a little to the right or a little to the left of the lighthouse, and they never did that.

I dont see a problem. The construction was built around the same time british and american scientists were messing with Lasers and fusion.

Masers were used by the Russians since the mid 50;s onward.

It was all about generating balls of plasma, like foofighters or the kugelblitz.

This link shows what effect they had in 1959..
www.cia.gov...

By 1965 the survey of kugelblitz theories for electromagnetic incendiaries goes on to mention the method of applying control over balls of plasma, or lightning balls on the ends of lasers.
Apply the same or similar methods using a maser, and you have an invisible beam potentially controlling an energy ball from a distance.
There is also the over the horizon method which could reflect charged plasma balls created by combining 3 radar beams to on point in the atmosphere and targeting Western nuclear silos bases and aircraft.
This would cause electronic malfunctions when near a site, or could be used to literally destroy a target.

By the late 70's, the West were in possession of such equipment such as Gyrotron (which has many applications, including the microwave auditory effect.

Considering the Excalibur program was running before and during the time frame of the incidents,
Considering by then, the West were aware of the Russian capabilities which include the use of particle beams (see russell targ and pat price) and were by then, aware that the lakenheath ufo flap in 1956, investigated in 1971, was Russian technology.

Moondust was set up due to the USSR using anti satellite satellites and particle beams to attack the west's military and space programs.

This was a recovery team, probably with links to ARG (accident response group) to recover these assets, before the USSR.

The assumption that there is no link in all of this to the incidents is one of diversion. like the alien theory.

originally posted by: steveywonders
The assumption that there is no link in all of this to the incidents is one of diversion. like the alien theory.

Some very interesting thoughts Stevey.

But if it was a test conducted by the UK or US, I have difficulty swallowing that they’d do it there, near a nuclear site (purported by some to have the largest store of tactical nukes in Europe), and furthermore undertake those tests without members of the command chain knowing that it was going to happen.

Would they (the operators of the test) know the extent of—and could they control unequivocally—the range of possible side-effects with whatever technology? It looked like the light-alls were affected: might it possibly affect the ordinance or other base facilities in an untoward fashion?

Things went haywire on Halt’s night. A “public relations’ disaster” with “everything that's left on the base--I won't say unprotected, but minimally protected”.

If something else had occurred simultaneously—let’s say anywhere in Europe (and Christmas period might be the most unsuspecting time to launch an attack)—then men were tied up, light-alls were not working, communication systems might have faltered. And then you have to add the potential disarray or dysfunction in decision-making.

Also, looking after these events: wouldn't Halt in his position be appraised that it 'was all just a test', and this would all just go to bed with no uproar?

The exception perhaps is that a foreign element was involved. Could the Soviets get the equipment in place and slip into the UK countryside to wage such a thing?

originally posted by: Baablacksheep

Not even Osborn knows but clearly says Jim did not do it.

Quote: "Now, as to finding out 'WHO' devised the binary code and factored in all this information, that's not my job on top of everything else. Skeptic are saying that we are releasing information found in the code without any concern about who devised it as if what we are doing is 'irresponsible'.

"I was asked to study the coordinates from the code and that's what I have focused on...

"I will say though, that I have discovered these things from the code at certain specific times during the six years I have studied it..."

So, Osborn is apparently happy to study and draw inferences from some 'code' of which he has no certainty as to the exact provenance, and then to expect his conclusions to have any meaning at all. This is, of course, all the wrong way around. Until it is possible to validate, and evaluate, the source, then there is no way to rule out that the 'code' was simply fabricated solely and specifically to lead to the numerological nonsense that he ultimately finds within it. It's just the MJ-12, and a thousand other, controversies all over again. It is just for this very reason - this failure to validate sources of 'evidence' - that will forever prevent ufology and other paranormal 'investigations' from progressing beyond mere pseudo-science, whatever the merits of the phenomena being 'studied'.