Scientists petition congress for return to Moon

VictorVonDoom
I'm all for sending Congress to the Moon. When they come up with a plan to erase the national debt, they can come back.

No way. Leave them up there. Just keep making promises to bring them back, but never actually do it. Now that's change we can believe in.

reply to post by webedoomed

helium-3 isn’t the only resource the moon might have to offer. It could also be a source for rare earth elements, such as europium and tantalum, which are in high demand on Earth for electronics and green energy applications (solar panels, hybrid cars), as well as being used in the space and defense industries.

Moon made for mining

I suppose it would create thousand of new job opportunities and make deep space exploration more possible than as it currently stands however my concern is that it will just become just used for political point scoring. ie vote for me and I will land a man on the moon. And the bottom line is the cost we be burdened to the tax payer.

And no doubt some black budget will be sneaked through for something like 'war on terrorism IN SPACE'.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Agreed. It sounds so simple but why hasn't that been done yet? I think it's because world power is changing hands but that's just me.

webedoomed
The Chinese are planning to mine the moon next decade. This is what it's all really about.

The first government to successfully carry tons of H3 from the moon back to earth will become the dominant economy within a matter of years.

We need to beat them to it.

EXACTLY!

Whoever controls the treasures of the solar system control the world!

If America continue to lag behind with space they will end up a cut off isolated 3rd world hell hole wholey at the mercy and whimes of the richer and more powerfull Russians and Chinese who have abundent resources.


Ironic 50 years ago the USA was decades ahead, the litraly had the solar at there feet, but now they risk loseing it and becomeing the next Africa.

I honestly think a new "space race" (I actually dislike using that term for some reason; seems anachronistic) would be the best thing for the United States, and the world in general! Competitiveness and rivalry are driving forces behind innovation in all technical fields, not to mention it fosters a sense of pride to the general population. New jobs are created, the economy improves, productivity rises - it's a win-win situation all around.

However, with that said, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it will never happen. I don't think the U.S. - as a whole unit - has it in them anymore to be so ambitious. I know that's a hell of a statement to make and I hate myself for even thinking it, but given its current state of affairs I just don't see it as even a remote possibility in the foreseeable future: the economy is focused on consumption rather than productivity; the government has consistently floundered the planning and execution of any recent non-military program; the education system has virtually eschewed the high-level science and mathematics curriculum needed for young scientists to take the helm of such an endeavor; the average citizen is more absorbed to sensationalized tabloid media rather than the core events that shape their lives.

That nation wants to go back to the moon? Especially considering when even a notable percentage of the very people who post here don't believe you'se even went there the first time?

I would be delighted to be proven wrong, however. Infact, I'm asking you America: please prove me wrong.

Blue Shift
If there was anything even remotely valuable on the Moon, nobody would need any government encouragement to go there. The government would be trying to either regulate or stop people from going there.

Wrong.

There are lots on the moon and mars that we need as well as on near earth objects.

What stopes private investor is the expense. There is no viable infrastructure so getting into space is restritively expensive and would require a huge overhead cost to get the infrastructure up and going.

Thats werethe goverments come in, like investing in roads and railways to help economic growth they need to invest in makeing space affordable. Once they jump start it the resturns will be enormous!

Tindalos2013


Mining the Moon is a BAD idea. You just know it will go SNAFU. Those in charge have not exactly had a good track record of getting things right here on Earth and the Moon is far too vital to the stability of this planet to be going digging great big holes in it. Savvy.

edit on 23-12-2013 by Tindalos2013 because: The Amazing Typo Vs The League of Mistakes

You do know that we would probbaly only mine 0.0000000000001% of the moons mass right? Its only He3 we want, there doing to blowing it up with nukes.

reply to post by crazyewok


I think that to go to the moon privately you would need clearance. You've got to know where satellites are and need government permission to go up.

Now imagine if a group of scientists and engineers got together as a goodwill project to develop a private infrastructure to go to the moon and back endlessly. I am sure that when it comes to the stage that permission is needed to continue, that permission might not be granted.

If it's thought that all space-borne interests were shifted to the eastern countries as a home-base then by the same corporate interests that run rampant in our governments in the west, those folks may have already staked claims to outerspace. Any request is likely to be shot down by conspirators whether they're home based and deeply established or if they are eastern or moved east.

reply to post by BlubberyConspiracy


Well that would be the same as Air Travel and Sea travel round ports.

I see know reason why agoverment would not want one to start minning the moon, mars and NEO as itwould bring is massive wealth.

lostbook
You heard it here first, ATS. It seems that after China's successful landing on the Moon just last week, US scientists and one congressman are petitioning Obama and congress to go back to the Moon as part of an effort to maintain dominance in Space.

This is good! It seems that we have a new Space race on our hands. The benefits to society through innovation and collaboration will be immense. We still reap the benefits from the first Cold War and now with this new one, our solar system will open up in a big way!

“As China prepares to send a series of increasingly advanced rovers to the moon in preparation for what most observers believe will ultimately be human missions, many are asking why the U.S. is not using this opportunity to lead our international partners in an American-led return to the moon,”

What say you, ATS?

www.space.com...

Alomst there, but why the dominance feature? why not tear and share, future human beings will, (most likely) have to leave this ball..that means all humans. So far that is an unimaginable scenario, but so far it is true.

Tindalos2013
And the bottom line is the cost we be burdened to the tax payer.

But the returns will be priceless!

Ok you have new jobs and a wholenew economic sector.

But you will be asureing the survival of man kind.

It will help eliminate the comeing resorce shortages in He3, rare earths, Iron and if we got to Titan even hydrocarbons.

Long term it will save alot of suffering and a lot of wars. Worth the investment I think.

webedoomed
The Chinese are planning to mine the moon next decade. This is what it's all really about.

The first government to successfully carry tons of H3 from the moon back to earth will become the dominant economy within a matter of years.

We need to beat them to it.

Assuming that fusion reactors based on H3 are ubiquitous. That's a hell of an assumption to make.

The #1 reason to mine the moon and asteroids is NOT to transport stuff back to Earth (which on profit/loss sheet makes little sense).

It's to use these resources to build up infrastructure IN space. Anything we mine on the moon or on asteroids doesn't have to be lifted out of our 1G gravity well, which is kinda expensive.

So it makes more sense to "live of the land" so to speak in space.

In short, the reason to mine the moon is to live on the moon and in space not to power commercial fusion reactors which don't exist yet.

reply to post by ArchAngel_X


You got the right idea. May even inspire the youths, change from a bunch of lazy fat stupid twinkie eaters to something that actually usefull to society.

Soylent Green Is People

The U.S. has also requested that no person or robotic craft get within a certain distance of the Apollo sites, because they do not want people or robotic probes possibly climbing/rolling over something such as the first footprints on the Moon. It's akin to roping off the area in from of a painting in a museum.

However, while Apollo 11 (the first one) and Apollo 17 (the last one to date) have wider requested restricted zones because of their specific historical significances (being first and last), a future tourist or robotic probe can get very close to the equipment at the other sites (Apollos 12, 14, 15, and 16) -- as close as 3 feet away (1 meter).

So the restricted zone for those other sites is not really that restricted -- but they still don't want to have.the sites disturbed.

I didn't know this existed either, thanks for the data. For the lesser historical sites, a meter seems much too close, all someone has to do is jump into it and start running around to disturb and destroy the entire site. The footprints and golf-cart (or whatever it was) tracks are there as part of the now classic historical span of missions named Apollo, human's first expeditions on the moon. To let tourists and robots within a meter of the perimeter of those sites seems a miscalculation and it's hard imagining that any historians were consulted on the distance.

crazyewok
reply to post by ArchAngel_X

 

You got the right idea. May even inspire the youths, change from a bunch of lazy fat stupid twinkie eaters to something that actually usefull to society.

You realize you were once a youth who older people looked upon as the same right? Every generation is "dumb, lazy, etc".

You remember those Gen-X slackers, they only built most of the software and internet we use, are behind most of the exoplanet discoveries.... etc.

Give them a chance.

reply to post by JadeStar


You do know the USA and UK are both sinking fast in world education?

We are getting slack.

Aleister

Soylent Green Is People

The U.S. has also requested that no person or robotic craft get within a certain distance of the Apollo sites, because they do not want people or robotic probes possibly climbing/rolling over something such as the first footprints on the Moon. It's akin to roping off the area in from of a painting in a museum.

However, while Apollo 11 (the first one) and Apollo 17 (the last one to date) have wider requested restricted zones because of their specific historical significances (being first and last), a future tourist or robotic probe can get very close to the equipment at the other sites (Apollos 12, 14, 15, and 16) -- as close as 3 feet away (1 meter).

So the restricted zone for those other sites is not really that restricted -- but they still don't want to have.the sites disturbed.

I didn't know this existed either, thanks for the data. For the lesser historical sites, a meter seems much too close, all someone has to do is jump into it and start running around to disturb and destroy the entire site. The footprints and golf-cart (or whatever it was) tracks are there as part of the now classic historical span of missions named Apollo, human's first expeditions on the moon. To let tourists and robots within a meter of the perimeter of those sites seems a miscalculation and it's hard imagining that any historians were consulted on the distance.

edit on 23-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

I believe the United Nations, not the United States made this request. They declared the landing sites "World Heritage" sites.

reply to post by JadeStar


No assumption necessary. There are many scientists working on this as we speak! We're still years off from any of that H3 coming back to Earth no matter how fast we push the project through.

It's inevitable, and more important than simply establishing a permanent base to build ships or what have you. Yes, that will happen alongside, but seriously, H3 is far more important. We gotta get our own house in order before anything else.

I don't think any of this will actually happen, if anyone has bothered to read my recent posts. Still, I think it must be attempted.

crazyewok
reply to post by JadeStar

 

You do know the USA and UK are both sinking fast in world education?

We are getting slack.

Both nations primary cultural activity and export is entertainment. When you overemphasize entertainment over STEM (Science Technology Engineering and Mathematics) then other countries which don't put as much a premium on being entertained 24/7 will use more of their resources on things like STEM.

It's a cultural issue as much as anything. Just because the US turned inward after Apollo doesn't mean other nations wouldn't be progressing.

The fact remains, to do the things you want to do, we need an Apollo style budget. 4% of the US federal budget would work wonders. Right now NASA is surviving on 0.5% of the federal budget due to all the cuts since Apollo ended. To put that in perspective. That is a yearly budget of about what 6 B-2 Spirit bombers cost.

I don't care which nation goes into space with rigor. No one will be able to do everything on their own. The important thing is that we start.

I'm not nationalistic. I am human.

My hope is that when we land on Mars it will be THIS flag planted on the surface:


flagofearth.org...


Rather than a national or corporate one.

I'm not saying I dislike the idea of going in space but seriously, I feel we have more pressing matters.
I feel that we are not advanced and focused enough to attempt successfully to colonize outside of this planet.

However, I can't say I wouldn't be glad if, by magic, every country in the world suddenly decided to fund space exploration and research instead of the military...