The 10,000 year old civilization which was more advanced than us

Food for thought, but neutron bombs would explain cities that seemed to have been "deserted" all at once.

Originally posted by merka
... My keyboard is more advanced than the pyramid. And it glows too.

Yeah, people love to throw around the "stones are so close together that a razor blade can't be put between them.", all the while ignoring the fact the the "stones" in their desktop (aka silicon) are so close together than ELECTRONS have to go through them single file.

Someone once did a hilarious piece about comparing the pyramids to a 7-11 store, complete with pharaoh and sons visiting it. It was truly funny, and actually an eye-opener for those that think the pyramids were so "advanced".

They weren't as advanced as people like to make them. They were just BUILT TO LAST.

Found the link to the 7-11/pyramid thing: www.windsofchange.net...

Edit to add: This is my favorite part: ...The princes have fallen silent. They have discovered the Slurpee machine and mortgaged their birthrights, entire kingdoms to the clerk for another refill.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by sir_chancealot]

Yes it was built to last, but they didnt exactly have a choice either. Stone, very well designed and well placed was the only way to build a pyramid back then, no matter how long you wanted it to stand. I mean, you really only had two options, wood or stone (or a combo of mud maybe). A pyramid of wood perhaps? Care to guess how well that would have gone, lol!

There is a mud brick pyramid but we dont have to guess how well that went...

[edit on 14-4-2009 by merka]

You shouldn't look at the pyramids from a technical standpoint and say "It's just a pile of rocks, with no real technology behind it."

Where the real genius lies is the management and organization skills it took to build them. The Sumerians were a supremely advanced culture but they left very little behind to mark their passing. We largely know of their written records not from the Sumerians themselves but from the Assyrians and Babylonians. The Pharaohs were masters of marshaling their people and organizing their work forces to produce something that has lasted for thousands of years. Most present societies couldn't do that.

reply to post by Bldrvgr



The bottom line is I base my views on what has been found and studied so far and you base your views on what has not been found yet or maybe never will.

If we did find something that would lead us in the direction that civilization was more advance than us 10,000 years ago, or that we have advanced to a modern state a number of times in the past just to fall back to the stone age I would quickly chance my views. I’m not arguing with you on whether these are possibilities since possibilities are endless, and even a fish like earth walking race that lived in a modern civilization state two million years ago is also a possibility, so yes I agree your views are possibilities.

Hell even evolution is a “theory” but it has more empirical data backing it up then anything other theory has as support. Does this mean we stop looking, no we continue to study and search to either change this theory or fine tune it into a fact.

For me to agree with you a race would need to be very large (billions) with advance communication abilities, or a smaller isolated race that was linked to an advance alien race, or a civilization that was something other than Homo sapiens and became extinct.

I don't think homo sapiens in small isolated groups had the ability to advance very fast, so this is why when we look back at the ice age when it is suggested we were very low in population our advancements were either extremely slow or even halted until our population had the ability to grow and trade/communication was established across many cultures.

Going back farther than the ice age our population looked, based on data so far, to have been more tribe like nomads for 100,000s (millions) of years.

When we look not that far in the past we see that advancement was not universal across the whole human race, many cultures did one or two things much better than other cultures, and it was not until we had the ability to trade these advancement back and forth have we really started on a more modern era.

So looking at great ancient civilizations in our past they only got that way by either having the best trade routes of their time, or they advance by war across expansive areas of the continents. In both of these cases they were able to collect advancements from many different cultures that were good in a few areas.

This is just how we work, and to suggest we had the ability in the past to advance in all directions as we do today but in small isolated cultures we are talking about a more super human race with extremely better capabilities than what we are/have.




[edit on 15-4-2009 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
You shouldn't look at the pyramids from a technical standpoint and say "It's just a pile of rocks, with no real technology behind it."

Where the real genius lies is the management and organization skills it took to build them. The Sumerians were a supremely advanced culture but they left very little behind to mark their passing. We largely know of their written records not from the Sumerians themselves but from the Assyrians and Babylonians. The Pharaohs were masters of marshaling their people and organizing their work forces to produce something that has lasted for thousands of years. Most present societies couldn't do that.

They used 100,000s of slaves over many decades, so we don't have companies today that direct 100,000s of people? Boeing has 100,000 plus working for them and they build big flying machines....which is greater, a pyramid or advanced flying machines...

And this is just one company....

the paleolithic mesolithic transition is called "a great dumbing down" by orthodox anthropolgists.

there was a technology crash, a social crash and even an art crash.

as an example, at dolni vestonice they were permanently settled, weaving, creating amazingly realistic art and firing ceramics by 25 kybce and then poof.

[edit] well maybe poof is a little strong. they are finding out what happened again finally.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Parta]

Originally posted by Parta
the paleolithic mesolithic transition is called "a great dumbing down" by orthodox anthropolgists.

there was a technology crash, a social crash and even an art crash.

as an example, at dolni vestonice they were permanently settled, weaving, creating amazingly realistic art and firing ceramics by 25 kybce and then poof.

[edit] well maybe poof is a little strong. they are finding out what happened again finally.

[edit on 15-4-2009 by Parta]

The ice age just about wiped us out, and really isolated us. I can see how a continued smooth advancement would turn into a life struggle for the entire human race. Great advancements for that era could easily disappear since maybe they were not linked to basic survival, and with a large die off so can knowledge go too.

reply to post by Xtrozero


but the near extinction event was 70kya right?? not 25kya or even 10kya.

these folks in central europe were them that we cannot mention... the first caucasians [mladac] and they didn't disappear. They became the r1 ydna groups. the i and j groups originated there too [because mysterious mr IJ lived in europe as of 2009]

"dumbing down" compares levels of advancement at 25kya and 10kya so there was 15ky where science couldn't track the weavers/ceramics makers but they did realize that for some reason, later western european cultures [like magdalenians] had an eastern border [in the dolni vestonice area] which they did not cross despite the wonderful living conditions on the other side.

what did science find over there on the other side [which happens to be downriver where it was always warm and aurochy]? well they found that the aurignacians didn't die out at all, they were happily living in the choisest bits post glacial. they also found that the choisest choisest bits were under 20m up to hundreds of meters of sediment. what was down there noone knew. [digging down to just 7kya on the danube]

recently they discovered that they didn't realize [couldn't imagine] the scale of the features they should be looking for. people really took coralling to heart. they loved their fishfarming and the bigger the canal the better. if there wasn't a mountain then they built one and a city wasn't a city unless it was 600m across.

fun times.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
They used 100,000s of slaves over many decades, so we don't have companies today that direct 100,000s of people? Boeing has 100,000 plus working for them and they build big flying machines....which is greater, a pyramid or advanced flying machines...

And this is just one company....

In fact, it's extremely unlikely that any slaves were used to construct the Great Pyramid, and it's been shown that the entire edifice could have been constructed in about 15 years with a total workforce of 15,000 people, not all of which would have been on-site simultaneously (the figure includes the workforce that prepped the site and the artisans that finished opff the casing stones no longer on the Great Pyramid.)

The estimate was done by a Civil Engineering firm (DMJM, IIRC) and was summarized in an article uin Civil Engineering Magazine called "Project Management B.C."

The article used to be on the website of the magazine, but was rcently taken down. It's still available but you'll probably have to pay the mag.

You might find it in the Google Archives.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
In fact, it's extremely unlikely that any slaves were used to construct the Great Pyramid, and it's been shown that the entire edifice could have been constructed in about 15 years with a total workforce of 15,000 people, not all of which would have been on-site simultaneously (the figure includes the workforce that prepped the site and the artisans that finished opff the casing stones no longer on the Great Pyramid.)

Well I guess this just furthers my point that the pyramids as great as they were for their day are not that great compared with the modern world.

Originally posted by Parta

recently they discovered that they didn't realize [couldn't imagine] the scale of the features they should be looking for. people really took coralling to heart. they loved their fishfarming and the bigger the canal the better. if there wasn't a mountain then they built one and a city wasn't a city unless it was 600m across.

fun times.

Until resent times advancement was never uniform around the world, so huge disparities in the level of advancement I would say was a norm for much of our history. If one culture was 1000s years ahead or behind another one I find interesting, but I do not consider it outside the norm.

If someone said that there was a culture more advance in many ways in 10,000 BC than 1000 AD this would be extremely exciting, but not unbelievable. The problem is after 1000 AD the human race started to grow in size and communication skills started to finally expand, and so advancement really took off. Were 1000 or even 10,000 of years might have been needed to see good changes we then saw big changes in 100s of years. After 1500 AD our advancement started to really grow exponentially to where now we see tremendous growth in all directions in a mere decade.

So cultures well advance for their era might be somewhat of a normal event, but cultures advance than today is not so easy to prove in anyway.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Well I guess this just furthers my point that the pyramids as great as they were for their day are not that great compared with the modern world.

Well to be fair I'd say the other way around. Using 100,000+ slaves over many decades to build the pyramids doesnt show as much ingenuity, organization and skill as using 15,000 over just a few

If i wee an ancient with advanced knowledge and humanity nearly wiped itself out, I would formulate a plan where the survivors could ensure that by keeping the tecnology secret my descendants and their closest heirs would maintain the ruling class upper hand over the new civilizations which would emerge later. Isn't that what we here at ATS have accused the ruling secret elite of doing since te ancient generations. After a few generations have fortified themslves, I would begin a massive cleanup of any traces of the pas and a reoctoring of history would commence by seasoning the unintiated into so much servitude that anywho even think about ruining the new status quo would be dealt with by their fellow slaves. like an Uncle Tom syndrome. That would justify why there are no signs of the survivors passing on their knowledge- at least openly. And if anyone outside the circle tried to share the knowledge, brand them with a derogatory label having negative connotatins and execute them then bury their work.

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Well I guess this just furthers my point that the pyramids as great as they were for their day are not that great compared with the modern world.

Well to be fair I'd say the other way around. Using 100,000+ slaves over many decades to build the pyramids doesnt show as much ingenuity, organization and skill as using 15,000 over just a few

And today we would use 250 people.....I'm not an expert in pyramid building and so just maybe 15,000 was only needed because of their inefficiency.

Originally posted by PhyberDragon
If i wee an ancient with advanced knowledge and humanity nearly wiped itself out, I would formulate a plan where the survivors could ensure that by keeping the tecnology secret my descendants and their closest heirs would maintain the ruling class upper hand over the new civilizations which would emerge later. Isn't that what we here at ATS have accused the ruling secret elite of doing since te ancient generations. After a few generations have fortified themslves, I would begin a massive cleanup of any traces of the pas and a reoctoring of history would commence by seasoning the unintiated into so much servitude that anywho even think about ruining the new status quo would be dealt with by their fellow slaves. like an Uncle Tom syndrome. That would justify why there are no signs of the survivors passing on their knowledge- at least openly. And if anyone outside the circle tried to share the knowledge, brand them with a derogatory label having negative connotatins and execute them then bury their work.

One of my own theories of human advancement is more based on a few Newton, Einstein etc that came and went throughout history. When one of these guys came along great advancement were made in their short life, but after they were gone much of that advancement could have easily eroded away, or stayed very isolated. I would say the Romans were our first big advancement period that was based mainly on collecting advancement across many cultures. Before this advancements were very isolated and patchy at best.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Nope.

First off, welcome to the board...

We've been digging at Harrappa for quite some time, and haven't turned up ANYTHING "advanced".

As for Atlantis, the civilization was either 900 or 9000 years old by the time Plato heard of it (depending on which translation), and Plato's Dialoge does NOT mention advanced tech (despite what many think...) Read it yourself and you'll see. (plenty of links in most Atlantis threads)

much more superior and scientific has existed prior to our present day civilization

Really, so, even in the event of a nuclear war, we should find remains of skyscrapers? Why haven't we? Surely some would have survived, for us to be here? Did they all suddenly "forget" the knowledge? One thing we've seen, is that the more we advance, we find better and better ways for our legacy to live on. We have developed ways to preserve our artifacts for thousands of years, why didn't they? Where is the evidence of their highways? What about plastics?

As for the rebuilding, some basics would have been retained, even to grow crops. Metal-working would still be done, and VERY soon, Mr. Scientist would have gotten a working steam engine going to aid in the farm work. Likewise, he would have been quick to harness electricity from solar, wind, water sources, etc. to make life a little easier, and to help the crops.

Meteor impacts behave VERY similar to atomic blasts if large enough. We can see this in places like Tunguska.

SOMETHING, no matter how inane, would have survived from such a civilization. We have nothing. SOME advanced knowledge would have survived, and we'd see a drastically different timeline for inventions. We don't, it's quite linear. The evidence doesn't fit, nor does the logic for it...

On Youtube there is a wonderful 45 minute film named: What would happen if the human race dissapeard in one flash.
ps: It goes in the future and how our architecture would resist the scale of time and wonder wonder the only things that remaind were the ancient ones(piramds, great wall of china, etc) because they were build for longevity and endurance and not out of Capitlistic greed and money saving on every little piece of equipment, that will perish within a thousand years.


[edit on 12/08/09 by Durabys]

reply to post by KrummyButton


so let me guess. these people didnt know how to put gold on the pharao's tooth, but new perfectly how to mumify him so his body is gonna last for thousands of years?..

reply to post by Xtrozero


even if you had ten times more than the number u suggested, it still would be impossible to place such stones in specific locations. The Message of The Sphinx has many clues on this subject.