We are born sinners

reply to post by danielsil18

I thought it was dealing with the issue by tackling the question of what "sin" actually means and how the relationship was broken up in the first place.

Anyone who has studied family feuds will tell you that broken relationships can be inherited.
The point of the Bible is that it represents God's attempts to heal and restore the relationship.
God is being just and loving by setting out to restore the relationship which was broken on our side. But if we won't answer his letters or take his telephone calls...

reply to post by danielsil18


I wouldn't give up on God totally, he/she/it most definitely exists in my opinion. We are all pieces of God with the universe and life being the puzzle. You need to connect the pieces to see the full picture, the best place to start is over. Start over and start within.

reply to post by danielsil18


We do not need to be forgiven for sins we didn't commit. Our path in life alienated us from God.
We don't need forgiveness, we need to find back our way back to the path that God has meant for us to take.

We aren't punished for any sin. We got lost from God, because we decided that we can make our own choices. We are nowhere near as wise as God and when we went our own way, we can't return to God because we are not able to make the right choices that God would make... We make choices based on our own judgment.

Being baptized would make you able to find your way back, by guiding you

I think...

DISRAELI
reply to post by danielsil18

 

I thought it was dealing with the issue by tackling the question of what "sin" actually means and how the relationship was broken up in the first place.

Anyone who has studied family feuds will tell you that broken relationships can be inherited.
The point of the Bible is that it represents God's attempts to heal and restore the relationship.
God is being just and loving by setting out to restore the relationship which was broken on our side. But if we won't answer his letters or take his telephone calls...

edit on 21-12-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

What you mean to say is that God sacrifices his own Son, so we will be able find our way back ?

SgtHamsandwich

cass1dy09
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

So we're not born sinners but we're born gay?

Who say's we are born straight?

edit on 12 21 2013 by SgtHamsandwich because: (no reason given)

Never said we are born straight. But I've never agreed we are born gay either.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by cass1dy09

 

The world and society is what turns people into sinners, we are not born that way. Gay people have different genes than straight people, genes that they were born with, so if you are gay then you were more than likely born that way.

Over 1,200 species of animal shows signs of homosexuality, are you saying they made the choice to be gay as well? I find that hard to believe personally. Most animals are not a part of our society, they live in balance with nature outside of society yet they still show signs of homosexuality, so that shows me that being gay is NOT a choice made by someone but is something they are born as.

Do animals outside of society sin or do they live in balance with nature? Sin is not a natural born trait, it is something instilled by the society set up around us. You're comparing apples to oranges here in my opinion.

The world and society is what turns people gay, we are not born that way. Imo Example, teen British Olympic diver Tom Daley who gained popularity last Olympics just came out with a video saying he is dating a boy now after dating several women in the past. Say's he still fancies women but for now he's dating a guy an enjoying that. If that's what he likes then that's fine but that's definitely a choice he made. Sin is just the difference between right and wrong. Something we humans have determined through practice and passed on through thousands of years. As the saying goes, "a newborn puppy knows no fear of a tiger". Our pets don't know what is 'right or wrong' we teach them that. Species have a natural society but compared to our superior intellect Id call that apples and oranges.

Sinter Klaas
What you mean to say is that God sacrifices his own Son, so we will be able find our way back ?

Quite so. In effect, Christ becomes the way back to the Father ("I am the way").
But trying to explain and justify THAT concept is definitely a topic for another occasion.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


In my opinion baptism represents something very natural, childbirth.

Being immersed into the water in order to be born again with a fresh start mirrors childbirth very closely. Being immersed into the waters represents a baby within the amniotic fluid of the womb while rising from the waters to be born again literally represents a child being born again from the amniotic fluid of the womb through reincarnation.

Why is it called amniotic fluid? Because it causes amnesia. Amniotic and amnesia, they both share the same beginning root. What does the amniotic fluid make us forget? Our past lives. This is why Jesus is said to have walked on water, it represents how he rose above the waters to remember himself.

Being born again through reincarnation literally gives us a fresh start and clean slate to work with. It gives us a chance to come back to God, even if we were lost in a past life.

reply to post by cass1dy09


So what makes those 1,200 species of animal exhibit homosexual behavior? Do they choose to be gay?

What about devout Christians who end up being gay when they were taught from an early age that homosexuality is a sin? Why would they still choose to be gay when they know the god they believe in will not be happy about it?

What about all those devout Christians who have never and will never come out of the closet? Why would they be so ashamed of something they consciously chose to be knowing it was against the will of their god?

We are not taught to be gay, the idea is ridiculous. What about society provokes someone to choose to be gay in your opinion?

Im not christian, but i am interested in the lore. From what i understand, wasn't the whole point of Jesus dying on the cross to save man from original sin? Up until that point original sin from Adam and Eve made every human born marked with sin. So God sent down his son to be sacrificed in order to remove original sin.

That is how i understood it anyways, please correct me if i am wrong.

We are not taught to be gay, the idea is ridiculous. What about society provokes someone to choose to be gay in your opinion?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


We are gifted with the ability to choose to have fun, and emotions will definitly distract us to know right, let alone if it could be wrong.

So we want to please or get pleased and we fall in love. Nothing is stopping us and we don't think wrong from right if it would be biting us in the rear. We are to occupied with ourselves and our what we want.

Not saying that being gay is wrong or bad. I really don't care, and it seems to me that even if it is bad and even a sin. You can still find yourself into a baptized body and find a way that does not care if you screwed up or discriminate you if you did.

Only people will pass judgment which is probably not very trustworthy, since they are only human...

reply to post by danielsil18


Adam and eve are similar to santa claus... complete myth

One brings you toys if you're good, and stuffs your stocking full of coal if you're bad... the other is responsible for the sin of all man kind because they ate an apple...

Its utter nonsense... You are responsible for your own sins, and are in no way responsible for the sins of a mythical man and women who existed millennia ago.

We are born pure... sinless, yet we are also born into the vessel we deserve, thus all previous sins are resolved from the start of incarnation.

Though there are some sins that can not be resolved within one life time... IF that is the case one is born with a debt on their "account" so to speak... That person will need to have that debt resolved within the current incarnation or its carried over into the next one if its needed.

reply to post by DISRAELI


His teachings are the way, not his death on the cross.

John 15
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Basically, if you keep his teachings you will find the way, and that way is love. If you learn to love everyone as yourself then you have found and have become the way.

Matthew 5
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Become perfect and become the way, the truth, and the life just like Jesus. The way to do that is to follow Jesus' teachings.

Matthew 9
13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Jesus had no desire for sacrifice, so his supposed sacrifice on the cross is not what he wanted. Those who crucified him showed him no mercy either and mercy is exactly what he said he did desire.

Even Jesus himself disagrees with Christian doctrine, so either Christian dogma is wrong or Jesus is, take your pick.

reply to post by danielsil18

I agree with you, it doesn't make sense in any way. Some people say god is fair and just, but I don't think he is. Of course that's saying if god is real.

Forget EVERYTHING you have been told by religion, education, TV, etc.

You have been lied to on an unbelievable scale...

Until you come to realize the FACT that you have been deceived, NOTHING is going to make any sense.

reply to post by Murgatroid


But religion is what teaches us original sin....?

So you're telling him to forget EVERYTHING he has learned from religion, start from scratch and then relearn the same thing all over again? Where do you find the concept of original sin except within the teachings of Christianity?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I have to disagree, religion is nothing but deception.

I suspect that is why the OP is so confused.

Religion and God are totally opposed and complete opposites.

False religion is a complete fabrication and TRUE religion has been infiltrated by TPTB.

I DO agree with the below and that may actually be first BTW:

I wouldn't give up on God totally, he/she/it most definitely exists in my opinion. We are all pieces of God with the universe and life being the puzzle. You need to connect the pieces to see the full picture, the best place to start is over. Start over and start within.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Religion is deception and the TPTB have infiltrated it, I agree with that 110%, but you seem to believe the bible is the word of god and that is a teaching of religion.

If religion is a deception as you say, why have they promoted the bible as the word of god and that Jesus' death is the only true way to salvation? If they are deceivers, wouldn't those teachings be a part of the deception to keep people blind to other avenues?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

you seem to believe the bible is the word of god and that is a teaching of religion.

I do NOT believe the bible is the word of god...

I KNOW it is, it a FACT, not a belief.

If religion is a deception as you say, why have they promoted the bible as the word of god and that Jesus' death is the only true way to salvation? If they are deceivers, wouldn't those teachings be a part of the deception to keep people blind to other avenues?

For the very same reason that rat poison contains mostly good food.

Satan knows the Bible well and has a LOT of time to study it.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Maybe it's a fact to you, but to others it is not. You believe the bible is the word of god, you're not denying that are you? If you don't believe it then you don't believe it.

Rat poison contains good food? What? I don't know what you're trying to drive at here.

What parts of Christian doctrine (religion) do you disagree with exactly?

reply to post by Murgatroid


Why would Satan study the bible ?

I've seen him appear in Eden and seduce Eve to doubt God's judgment and she ends up making her first choice and she messed up her entire life and that of all man kind.

Anyway. God seems to speak about what the future will bring us and that it we need to learn like us, or God and the snake I guess, since no other characters are around.

Satan offers Jesus to rule on Earth later on as well.

In Judaism, Satan is the one to test our faith as our Christian version does, he however is still buddies with God and only does what was asked to do.

I don't really care what version of the Devil you pick. He is around God to know how it works.

We are the ones that have to learn... That would make Satan some sort of helping hand for us to learn the fastest way possible, by messing up and fall down hard.

Life is an adventure non the less.

reply to post by danielsil18




In my view, no one, is born a sinner, i.e. in the sense, that they have already committed a sin, just by being born etc…

And neither is God putting a judgment on us, for Adam and Eve (the whole story just being an analogy IMO), sinning whereby we are all automatically sinners too.

My personal take, is that it was the knowledge of God, that was lost during the “Fall of man”. Either it was taken away from us, or we moved away from it ourselves, by following the serpent, i.e. our own negative egos, and we became cut off from God spiritually.

Which IMO means, we turned away/lost the knowledge of our divine spiritual connection to God, and that we are all spiritual beings. And this IMO, is how sin and evil entered into our world.

So although no one is born a sinner at birth, we are now born into a world, that lives without this knowledge; or you could say, we are cut off from God; This is what makes us more prone to sin.

Jesus really came to help restore our spiritual connection back to God, through his teachings. Teachings, such as, keeping the commandments, and how to receive the Spirit of God, which helps to restore us, from the fall.

- JC