Controversy Over 5th-Grader’s Religion Speech

The article even says that the speech mentioned Ghengis Khan, and if you look him up, he is a self-described Shamanist. He supported religious freedom throughout his reign. Again, nothing to with your addition to blame Christianity...but I'm still looking...

Religion in the Mongol Empire

reply to post by NavyDoc

Shrug, if it was a pro-religious speech, the very same members that are angry that he got shut down would be calling for him to be shut down, citing separation of church and state. If it is wrong for a pro-religious message to be in a school, then it is just as wrong for an anti-religious message to be in school. Either both are acceptable or neither are.

I wasn't sure how to take this whole thing until I got to your messages and stopped to consider that very simple point. Love religion, hate religion or have no opinion either way? You're absolutely right.

If a student pulled a Bible out in any class, to note anything positive contained within? He'd be risking suspension if not more, depending on past history...with a Teacher getting the same or worse if it were allowed to continue. Whether it should be that way or not, isn't my focus...but it IS that way, and headlines carry it daily from around the nation.

So.... Yes... Under the most cherished and core value of our nation, you hit it dead on. Equal Protection and Equal Treatment means we don't suppress positive speach on a topic, but then welcome negative attack on that same topic. That's not freedom...it's forced setting of agenda, and in school? To a captive audience, it's another legal issue to add to it.

Same thing with Religion itself, right? You can't condemn Islam then have a Christian festival in the same spot. You can't sue and have a Nativity scene removed, just to replace it with a Jewish or Islamic display. Equal protection and Treatment.

Sounds like equal values were applied here, even if it turned out rough for the kid. I suppose listening to the guidance suggesting the topic wasn't appropriate would have saved a great deal of heartache and hassle for the 5th grader.

havok
The article even says that the speech mentioned Ghengis Khan, and if you look him up, he is a self-described Shamanist. He supported religious freedom throughout his reign. Again, nothing to with your addition to blame Christianity...but I'm still looking...

Religion in the Mongol Empire

Sure it is. The "golden rule" being used to beat down the Mongol? Its racist and a christian emanation to boot. LOL

reply to post by havok


Because it was a christians that told the child they couldn't do their story.
It was christians that took the ribbon away.
It was christians that embarassed him.
You want to support religion?
I get that...but please, stay in reality.

-Peace-

reply to post by Eryiedes


I don't know dude, bit of a dark speech for 5th graders... However I feel like if he would have spoken about Nazi's murdering it would have been OK but it's not like there's any Nazi's in the classroom haha if this was rejected from a university level speech then I would be up in arms about it.

Put yourself in the teachers shoes, you have a bunch of kids and someone stands up and starts talking about grousome religious murders! You can't let it go on, what if parents complain that one of their kids is a bit traumatised from it??

I'm not defending the subject, I completely agree that this is something that needs to be talked about and brought to the table, but to educated adults, not to a bunch of kids...

reply to post by iRoyalty


That's bunk.
We need MORE children that understand how the world works...not less.
We need children who will grow up to be courageous individuals who will speak their minds...not cowards who will knuckle under to Vatican Decree.
What we don't need is christians holding back the achievements and development of future generations...even if that's their specialty.

-Peace-

reply to post by Eryiedes


I'd like to know where your assumption of my support stems from.
I could support Satanism for all you know...

I asked a few questions on why you were blaming a specific religion without the facts. I would do the same and continue to do the same with any other specific religion if I read a thread and the author pointed a finger without as much as a single thread of factual reference. Still didn't receive an answer nor at this point do I care. I understand what you are trying to get to and it has nothing to do with this boys speech or the lack of specific content in the article.

reply to post by Eryiedes


If you want to teach your kids about murder that's fine, I will teach my kids about love and human kindness so that when they see stuff like murder they will know it's wrong, rather than being subjected to that information from a young age.

reply to post by Eryiedes


That the boys point of view, but at the end of the article, they state the problem was with the subject matter of mass murder not religion.

reply to post by havok

we were all young once and I can bet not a single one of us had those thoughts in mind when carrying on a speech.

I did.

When I was around 10/11 yo I started to question Religion, seeing its hypocricies, but the only answers I would get would be "That's not for men to know" or "It's a matter of having faith", so I stopped going to church.

And mind you, BOTH MY PARENTS ARE CHRISTIANS, so no external influence there.
It's simply called FREE THINKING, something that apparently, from seeing some of the comments here, has become extraordinary and weird...

Eryiedes
reply to post by havok

 

Because it was a christians that told the child they couldn't do their story.
It was christians that took the ribbon away.
It was christians that embarassed him.
You want to support religion?
I get that...but please, stay in reality.

-Peace-

It wasnt "the christians" it was one person, do we knoe the teaching assistant was a christian?

reply to post by MadHatter364


That's good that you formed your opinions at a young age to get a good view on the world, I agree that children need to be educated better about things like extremism. However I doubt that every single other kid in your grade at school was ready, I still think they were too young for that speech.

reply to post by MadHatter364


Free thinking works and is critically important. It's something being discouraged too much these days in favor of conformity.

Still, Religion isn't the place for that in this context, in the United States. The Constitution isn't bashful or vague on the issue and how it's come to be accepted and practiced. While never mentioned in the Constitution itself, "Separation Of Church and State" has become an absolute in America. Almost to the point of dividing our nation in yet more very bad ways.

So in schools, especially? Folks can free think all they'd like ....with that topic left out. After all, if he can have an Essay about Religious context in past world events including very bloody historic times? Then my son has every right to do an Essay on the value and necessary place of religion in modern society and why it shoudn't be challenged.

If one is allowed, by law, BOTH MUST BE. I'd say neither Essay has a place in public school, now that we've determined religion is to be removed in all forms possible, in all examples which come up. Positions against have no special protections when the topic itself is Constitutionally off limits there.

reply to post by iRoyalty


As I recall, it was the following year in the 6th grade that we started learning about american history and our wars in much more depth than ever before.

Most of the kids I knew in the 5th grade had pretty much solidified the personality traits that would define them in later years. I have a 5th grader and must constantly remind myself that I am not talking to a 4 year old or undervalue his intellect.

reply to post by MadHatter364


Times have changed and there is much more information out there for 4th and 5th graders to acquire these days. So I will give him the benefit of a doubt. What the schools are teaching today is an entire conspiracy in itself.

I am sure he is quite intelligent as most children are around that age. Now, what is appropriate for them to talk about and learn is up to the parents to decide. Not me. If the school deemed it inappropriate, then that is the decision made. I guess that is the downfall of allowing a school(funded and controlled by a govt department) to determine what subjects are taboo and what are acceptable. But like a few other posters said in here, IMO, it's all or nothing.

reply to post by Logarock


Fair enough, I suppose this kind of more turns into the issue of 'When it is OK to teach kids about death and stuff?'.

IMHO I praise that kid for having the balls to stand up and give a speech about something he found incredibly important, that he thought everyone should be aware of.

HOWEVER, you can't give a speech to a bunch of 10 year olds about violence and murder, especially if it's kind of a dark subject for a lot of kids who are probably brought up to be christians. It's not a great feeling when you find out that something you believe in and think is inherently good, has a violent and dark background. Imagine if you gave a speech to your kids about why Santa Claus is a pedophile? It would %$*! you up!

That sounds about right. . .to teach the children how to use their minds for greatness, THEN punishing them for it.

America 1
Independence 0

I'm dont think anyone would deny that "evil" people have used all different kinds or religions and political ideology for their own purposes.
even religious people would admit that.
It's people that kill other people and they'll use whatever is the most convienient tool to do it.

America: the land of independently establishing the independence to independently oppress our independence of their independence to continue oppressing our independence of their independence.

...'MURICA!!!

Whether this was about religion:

“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,” Golob-Drake explained to WFLA.

or about mass murder:

“The concern was over the topic of mass murders,” Arja said. “Because these are 4th and 5th graders.”

This was stupid on the behalf of the teachers. The teachers should be applauding this student for thinking outside the box and discussing things that take some critical thinking to come to the conclusions for. I mean seriously, any 5th grader knows about mass murder, to shield them from this knowledge is just stupid and just causes children to grow up sheltered. Same thing about religion, it needs to be exposed as a tool of the elite to propagate mass murder, this kid is on to the right concepts here.