Hawaiian Official Who Released Obama's Birth Certificate Dies In Crash

SBMcG

ezwip
I downloaded and opened that document in Illustrator day one, and I will never believe that to be a real birth certificate...

I did the same thing on the evening of April 27, 2011. Honestly, I felt ill when I saw what you've described.

The bottom line is, even if it's not completely phony, it's still not a birth certificate. It is an electronic .pdf file.

Totally! Same conclusion, it is so obvious it is comical.

xuenchen

And the .pdf issue brings up yet another big question.

Why would they even post a .pdf ?

A simple .jpg would have stopped much of the speculation dead in its tracks.

There is a wild theory, but will wait to post it.

The pdf WAS put up for a reason. A very big and complicated reason.

You sir, are dangerously close to the truth, I think.

The real story isn't the forgery.

It's the reason for the forgery...

As the church lady would say...


HOW CONVENIENT

SBMcG

xuenchen

And the .pdf issue brings up yet another big question.

Why would they even post a .pdf ?

A simple .jpg would have stopped much of the speculation dead in its tracks.

There is a wild theory, but will wait to post it.

The pdf WAS put up for a reason. A very big and complicated reason.

You sir, are dangerously close to the truth, I think.

The real story isn't the forgery.

It's the reason for the forgery...

Scary eh. You bet.

here's some real scary stuff.... many posts many *Ideas*

old thread

xuenchen

ezwip
I downloaded and opened that document in Illustrator day one, and I will never believe that to be a real birth certificate...

SBMcG
I did the same thing on the evening of April 27, 2011. Honestly, I felt ill when I saw what you've described.

The bottom line is, even if it's not completely phony, it's still not a birth certificate. It is an electronic .pdf file.

And the .pdf issue brings up yet another big question.

Why would they even post a .pdf ?

A simple .jpg would have stopped much of the speculation dead in its tracks.

There is a wild theory, but will wait to post it.

The pdf WAS put up for a reason. A very big and complicated reason.

Just letting those of us paying attention know that we're screwed. I really can't think of any other reason. Whatever it is the people in charge seem fine with it.

hellobruce

ezwip
I downloaded and opened that document in Illustrator day one, and I will never believe that to be a real birth certificate.

Who claimed it was a real birth certificate? This is one of the things so funny about birthers, they really do not know what they are even looking at!

Perhaps I misunderstood this, but if you are asking who claimed the PDF posted on the White House website in April 2011 was an authentic certified copy of President Obama's real original birth certificate, I was also curious what was actually said and by whom.

So I went out and looked up the old documents and news stories, and the answer is that these people at least have said it is an authentic certified copy of the original birth certificate:

Loretta J. Fuddy (until her recent death, Director of Health for the State of Hawaii),
Neil Abercrombie (Governor of Hawaii),
Donalyn Dela Cruz (Press Secretary for Neil Abercrombie, Governor of Hawaii),
David Louie (Attorney General of Hawaii), and
Dan Pfeiffer (White House Communications Director)

And the White House website and Hawaii state websites still say this. Here is what I found, complete with the links to the documents on the Hawaii and US government websites.

1. SOURCE: PDF on Hawaii Department of Health website and SOURCE: whitehouse.gov

This PDF file contains:

- Two letters to Loretta Fuddy, one from President Barack Obama and one from President Obama's attorney, requesting two copies of his original birth certificate.

- A letter which is Director Fuddy's reply to President Obama in which she states that their current departmental policy is to only release computer-generated certified copies but that because he is the President of the United States she is making an exception and has instead enclosed two certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth. Director Fuddy further states, "I have witnessed the copying of the certificate and attest to the authenticity of these copies."

2. SOURCE: News Release from the Governor of Hawaii

The Governor and the Attorney General of Hawaii also noted that normally they only release computer generated copies and not photocopies but that in this case an exception was made and Director Fuddy legally issued copies of the original certificates instead. This news release also states that Director Fuddy personally witnessed the copying of the original Certificate and attested to the authenticity of the two copies.

3. SOURCE: Dan Pfeiffer (White House Communications Director) on whitehouse.gov

The White House site says this, along with a link to the PDF they claim to be a copy of the original birth certificate:

Therefore, the President directed his counsel to review the legal authority for seeking access to the long form certificate and to request on that basis that the Hawaii State Department of Health make an exception to release a copy of his long form birth certificate. They granted that exception in part because of the tremendous volume of requests they had been getting. President Barack Obama's long form birth certificate can be seen here (PDF):

4. SOURCE: Department of Health, State of Hawaii

On Hawaii's Department of Health they state:

On April 27, 2011 President Barack Obama posted a certified copy of his original Certificate of Live Birth.

- For information go to www.whitehouse.gov... LINK

So it is well documented that all of these people claim (or claimed) the document provided by Director Fuddy and posted on the White House website is really a copy of President Obama's original birth certificate.

Now whether or not that document really is what they all claim it to be is an entirely different matter.

ikonoklast
and the answer is that these people at least have said it is an authentic certified copy of the original birth certificate:

No they did not.... this is something birthers have trouble understanding.... what is posted on the internet is NOT a certified copy of the birth certificate - I do not know why they have trouble understanding that simple point!

Director Fuddy further states, "I have witnessed the copying of the certificate and attest to the authenticity of these copies."

Read that statement closely, then re-read it and you may understand my point above.

White House website is really a copy of President Obama's original birth certificate.

Here is a question for you - how can you post a piece of paper on a website?

Remember how none of the birther document experts that went to court were actually court accepted experts? No real expert would declare a document a fake if they never even saw it.... unlike the alleged birther "experts"!

hellobruce

No it would not - remember how he released his Birth Certificates, and all the birthers have been claiming that they are forged.... if he did release his college records birthers would just claim that they were forged.

Well, yeah... I meant if Obama released his true and complete education records... not multiple differing sets of records from the same institution. (Sorry -- that was really too easy -- but you had to know it was coming ) Just look at what you wrote: Birth CertificateS. Plural. Whoever says, "Oh, yeah, I've got my birth certificateS." Or, "Yeah, I've got one of my birth certificateS." See what I'm saying???

Let me put it another way. We keep records and document events in order to confirm and/or verify that information later. Because witnesses die and witnesses lie. So we have established a protocol to record and document events, including births, that we can trust at a later date... sometimes even 50 years later. This protocol was not followed accordingly, and this alone has raised a jillion red flags for people. Yes, some because they just hate Obama... I'll even grant that some just hate Obama because they're racists. And by the same token, there are those who will make any excuse for Obama because they like having a Black man as president. But regardless of Obama's skin color, there are serious questions about the accepted and required procedures, which inevitably lead to more questions.

hellobruce
remember, this is not about any bit of paper Obama releases!

No, it's really not. Obama is just one man. One figurehead over a nation based on the rule of law, and it's the rule of law being turned on its head, and not just by Obama. Obama Schmobama. I'm concerned with the integrity of our nation as a whole. And I'm no more impressed with one side of the aisle than the other. They're all rotten to the core. If we could ever get past Obama, we could actually discuss the many peripheral issues which are being neglected, but are worthy of a national dialogue.

Is the natural born citizen clause obsolete? Should it be repealed? Congress critters have been trying to do exactly that for decades, with little to no national dialogue. Don't we deserve to at least know the issue, if not actually contribute to the discussion? If we decide to keep it, should there be mechanisms in place to require candidates to prove their eligibility? It's Obama now, who will it be next? Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio come to mind. For that matter, should candidates make all private records public, including education and funding? Just how much does the public have a right to know? And if we do, how do we protect our own privacy if we're putting someone else's on display?

I would much rather discuss issues than people. People come and go... issues stay the same.

hellobruce
Well, no previous president has released their records -

Okay. I'll take your word for it. And it doesn't matter one whit. I'm not demanding he release his records. Indeed, given that there is no legal requirement, I wouldn't want Obama or anyone bullied into releasing private information, because I don't want to be bullied into releasing private information. There are no doubt those who do want to require such releases by candidates, and we can discuss it as an issue, but it should not be tied to or dependent on any one candidate or person.

hellobruce
I notice your records are sealed exactly the same as Obama's, so what are you hiding?

Really? Does someone want to see my education records? That's news to me! Do you want to see my education records? Okay. I don't care. Have at em! Seriously, you know as well as I do that my records -- and YOURS -- are sealed according to laws neither of us had any part in making or implementing. And as I've already stated, as long as that's the law, I will protect Obama's right to privacy in order to protect my own right to privacy. He can release his records just like I can. Or he can hide them. His choice. But he has to live with consequences.

reply to post by DrEugeneFixer

DrEugeneFixer
why would there be 'government documents' of a private adoption?

when you have a clue, come on back and discuss it further, until then, your delusional assumptions are not worthy a response.

reply to post by hellobruce

wrong, birthers would then go on and on as to why a jpg and not a PDF.... and would still claim it was forged.

wow, you finally got one right ! congratulations

correct, it is a forgery because it is a forgery.
pdf or jpg makes no difference.

for those who are not Americans and don't understand why, oh well, it's not your problem to resolve, is it ?

hellobruce

ezwip
I downloaded and opened that document in Illustrator day one, and I will never believe that to be a real birth certificate.

Who claimed it was a real birth certificate? This is one of the things so funny about birthers, they really do not know what they are even looking at!

actually, Ms Fuddy publicly verified that the document presented via pdf, was a true and correct copy (although unlawful) of the original, on file, with her Department.

for those who aren't Americans, legitimate BCs (especially from that time period) state right on it "the reproduction of this document is prohibited by law".

now i could be wrong but, pdfs are most certainly considered, reproductions ... and what's worse, this particular reproduction doesn't even resemble the original that was produced in that time period.

and as a side note, the 'reproduction is prohibited by law' statement, has been around quite some time and long before digital transmissions were available.

reply to post by hellobruce

what is posted on the internet is NOT a certified copy of the birth certificate

ok, i'll bite, then what is it ?

Read that statement closely, then re-read it and you may understand my point above

yes, please, let's read it again

Director Fuddy further states, "I have witnessed the copying of the certificate and attest to the authenticity of these copies."

now, couple that with the statement emblazoned on legitimate BC long forms which reads "the reproduction of this document is prohibited by law" ... and, once you digest that, then please explain ...
WHY Ms Fuddy would publicly admit purposely violating the law at the behest of both Obama and his representative attorney, Holder ??

if you have something to share, please do, otherwise you're really barking up the wrong tree.

No real expert would declare a document a fake if they never even saw it

fine, if that's how you feel, then i'll go back to where i began ... it's NON-existant
... better ?

reply to post by Boadicea

Just how much does the public have a right to know?

that's already established Federal law and part of the problem here ... HI statute 338.18 (i think, it can be searched) ... is in direct conflict with several Fed regulations dealing with 'public' records. ppl are conceding to the HI statute rather have it officially voided as the Fed regulations supercede.

as he is our employee, we have every right to know.

And if we do, how do we protect our own privacy if we're putting someone else's on display?

it is an irrelevant question as we are already 'demanded to provide' in order to participate in any govt sponsored event ... education, child rearing, buying property, dying and many others.

what we give (generally voluntarily), he prefers to hide and that is not a characteristic of a benevolent leader.

Seriously, you know as well as I do that my records -- and YOURS -- are sealed according to laws neither of us had any part in making or implementing

^^^ this, is a sad but common misconception.
your records are 'public' information with restrictions on which public participants have OPEN access.

depending on my/your job, access varies.
why should some members of the public have OPEN access, based on their employment, and not all ?

interagencies and their members/employees share YOUR private information, every day. this 'shroud' of privacy, in this day and age, is nothing but a joke.

did you know that ALL of the college professors can access active student profiles (including funding) with a few keystrokes ?
doesn't matter if the student is in that professor's class or not.
[not saying all profs do, but they can]

like i said, if you participate in society, your perception of 'privacy' is solely in your head.

Honor93
reply to post by Boadicea

I was speaking more hypothetically about what such a national discussion might include... but thank you!!! I didn't know much of this so you've given me much food for thought. It will have to wait tho as my mom had a heart attack yesterday, so it's time for a road trip I will be back though... just like a bad penny!

reply to post by Boadicea

I was speaking more hypothetically about what such a national discussion might include...

i can appreciate your opinion, but, i don't believe for a minute that it's time to talk about changing what has been the standard, in this country, since its inception.

If an imposter is what he is, then that should be resolved without changing any damn thing. let's follow the law and deal with it.

quit re-defining words, quit arguing the possibilities and freakin deal with it. thanks for nothing, CONGRESS.

as for you, Boadicea, thanks for your continued conversation.

I didn't know much of this

are you serious ?

ok then, i have 4 questions for you if you want to know and understand more, via u2u.

awe, sorry to hear about your mom, prayers for a speedy recovery.

may you and yours be safe out there.

SBMcG
You sir, are dangerously close to the truth, I think.

The real story isn't the forgery.

It's the reason for the forgery...

The long form pdf, with all its digital anomalies, has always been handy misdirection from the evidence that Congress was defrauded by Obama's short form birth certificate copy -- which falsely purports to be legally certified. This evidence came to light at the same time the long form pdf was released by the White House:

Consider first the following quote from a serving member of Congress, in January 2009 -- Arlen Specter.

”On June 13, 2008, the Obama campaign released a copy of his birth certificate after numerous claims were made about his eligibility to hold the office of President. The released copy created additional questions, because it contained a blacked out department file number and was apparently missing a seal, and it was impossible to detect raised text, a common characteristic of official documents. There were satisfactory answers to such questions, however: the department file number had been blacked out to prevent hackers from breaking into the Health Department’s system, and the State places the seal on the back of the certificate. The website Factcheck.org investigated the matter and provided high-resolution photos taken at multiple angles that revealed the raised text and the seal on the back of the document."

-- Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa.


However, the Factcheck photos don't show a "raised" seal on the back of Obama's short form COLB, at all.

These are the two high resolution close-up photos of the seal on the back of that document, taken by Factcheck staff, and the seal is not "raised" according to state law and the Hawaii DOH vital records regulations. It is lowered, or 'debossed.' It's fraudulent.

www.factcheck.org...
www.factcheck.org...

(See pg. 19 of HDOH's vital records regulations. A "raised seal" is required on a legally certified copy of a vital record issued by the HDOH: gen.doh.hawaii.gov...)

The raised backside of the seal, on the front of the document, confirms the seal is NOT raised on the other side. Here is a photo of the back of the seal impression:

www.factcheck.org...

Factcheck published this photo and deceptively labeled it, "The raised seal." Here is the article in which that photo and deceptive caption appear: www.factcheck.org...

According to Arlen Specter, Congress relied on Factcheck.org’s fraudulent report and their photographs of the fraudulent document as evidence Obama’s short form birth certificate copy was legally certified.

The Obama camp and the White House have always distanced themselves from this COLB because it is demonstrably fraudulent.

The long form has always been carefully timed misdirection from the fact that it was finally noticed there is no official "raised" seal on the back of Obama's short form purported certified birth certificate, after all.

Despite a concerted effort by some people to place other purported certified copies of vital records from Hawaii on the internet with fraudulent debossed seals -- meant to corroborate the fraudulent seal on Obama's short form birth certificate -- the law speaks for the truth: the short form is a fraudulent identification document. And Congress was quoted as saying it was relied on to make a determination as to Obama's eligibility. Fact.

reply to post by MotherMayEye

good, i'm glad i'm not the only one who caught that
raised my arse, hahahahahahaha

i'm still wondering how his campaign got a copy to release ??

according to HI statutes, that shouldn't be possible.

reply to post by beatbox


I suppose it can be amusing to some.

Then again, I'm not of the mentality that everything is a conspiracy. Nor do I believe that everybody who comes into contact with Obama in some way or another is being murdered by a guild of assassins for no other reason than his amusement.

A plane crashed. There were 9 people. She died. It's a good thing they didn't all die, at least there's that to be happy about.

There's no conspiracy here. There's just a news story and then some conjecture and opinion by people.

~Tenth

Honor93
reply to post by MotherMayEye

 

good, i'm glad i'm not the only one who caught that

raised my arse, hahahahahahaha

i'm still wondering how his campaign got a copy to release ??

according to HI statutes, that shouldn't be possible.

If he applied for a late birth certificate or amended an original birth certificate, he could obtain a non-certified copy of an abstract short form birth certificate while pending acceptance by the state registrar -- Alvin Onaka.

I suspect the Obama camp fraudulently 'certified' a non-certified copy. And with the long form, no one has seen the seal impression with enough clarity to determine its authenticity...except Savannah Guthrie, who said she felt it and the seal was "raised." If it was raised, it just begs the question, "Why wasn't the seal on the short form raised, too?"


ETA: Obviously someone, in fact, produced a fraudulent seal device and applied it to the back of the document. I just suspect it was the Obama camp that did it.

reply to post by MotherMayEye

Obviously someone, in fact, produced a fraudulent seal device and applied it to the back of the document. I just suspect it was the Obama camp that did it.

Yes, obviously everything is faked.

Who in their right mind, could say otherwise? There's no amount of academic or professional certifications and knowledge required to verify the validity of a document. There's no way that this whole birth certificate thing is actually just a distraction right?

Nah, I guess the only thing we should worry bout is where he was born, as opposed to the job he's doing running the country.

I do love seeing Orly Tate on TV though, what an always entertaining experience.

~Tenth