I don't understand my mother

reply to post by mblahnikluver

If your mother is into spirituality and you are as well then maybe you two should sit down and talk to each other. You need to let her know how you feel or you will always have this resentment towards her.

the best advice in the thread so far.

I guess most people have no real experience with horrible people. That's why psychopaths keep getting paroled.

You don't need to forgive anything. You don't need to try to "understand" anything. You don't need to "walk in her shoes." You don't need to try to change your feelings. You seriously just need to walk away. And stay away. All the rest will come after a few years away from this person.


I can guarantee that all of these other suggestions will only lead to more pain and craziness for you.

reply to post by wildtimes

Yeah, hatred is never productive. It's unpleasant, a horrible burden to carry.

Yes, its a poison that everywhere you take it you affect the environment around you with that poison.


Again a hypocrite talking here that has carried much hatred and had much difficulty finding forgiveness in my heart, still struggling now to be honest but I feel as though I am getting there and I will be able to forgive myself eventually.

If you are still in your 20s don't let these feeling brew for to much longer and find some resolution like you are obviously attempting, the longer you leave that poison in your system the longer it takes to to detox yourself from that hatred and inability to forgive.

But it's too early to decide you are a total failure at life.

It always is if one decides that, no matter what age they are.

We don't know what life is and what it encompasses to really say we failed at it until after we live it complete.

I always have this little delusion/fantasy that when we leave our body and our body dies here that its not our death but just a transition and in that transition is when we come face to face with ourselves and ask ourselves are we satisfied with the life we lived, do we have regrets, did we do something meaningful.

The answer we give ourselves are what make us proceed to another state or be reincarnated.

If we try to lie and deceive ourselves we will only fail in progression if there is any.

reply to post by introspectionist

The least productive post in the thread got the most stars. I'm getting to know what kind of people are on this forum...

You only seem to see negative words in your interpretation in that post.


The advice given in that post is the best available, Talk.

You are not getting to know anything with such blind opinions.

reply to post by Roisin

You seriously just need to walk away. And stay away. All the rest will come after a few years away from this person.

The OP sees this as an issue they have, correct me if I am wrong OP,

How does running away from your problems solve them?

I can guarantee that all of these other suggestions will only lead to more pain and craziness for you.

I can guarantee running away from something you yourself have realized is your choice.

Run if you please and if it will resolve,

reply to post by introspectionist


Forgiveness may involve confessing/declaring that you forgive the individual(s) concerned EVERY TIME A THOUGHT RELATED THERETO arises within your mind.

And doing it as often and as long as it takes until the "high octane ping" reduces to nothing related thereto.

It can help to realize that each of us have flaws, errors, sins, misdoings as serious or POTENTIALLY AS SERIOUS as anyone else's.

It can help to realize that ONLY THOSE WHO ARE FORGIVING WILL BE FORGIVEN.

It's worth being tenacious about.

And . . . forgiving one's self can be as important and often harder.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


You might try some behavior mod . . . perhaps sending a letter first after months of no contact or weeks . . .

I notice I've only covered the negative side of behavior mod below. It's far better to emphasize the positive. I just know that when such behaviors are as entrenched as they are with such parents, the positive only approach takes forever--too long. The shock treatment seems to be at least essential as a major component of such a training process.


Something akin to:

"Mom, I'd love to have a better relationship with you. However, I'm NOT AT ALL WILLING to continue the pattern of our relationship over the years. I'm NOT WILLING to subject myself to your negativity and verbal assaults.

By verbal assaults, I mean whenever you say things like:

- - - "You always were a schmuck."

- - - "You never show any caring."

- - - "You've always been a failure and always will be."

&/or

- - - "You never do anything for me."

And/or any other self-pitying sorts of blame laid at my feet.

I'm willing to try lunch at ____________ at 11:30 on _________

AT that lunch, you will get 2 strikes. That is, IF you say ONE SENTENCE that is negative toward me or about me, that will be ONE STRIKE. A 2nd sentence will be TWO STRIKES. A 3rd sentence will find me getting up and leaving the table and not talking to you for a long time. The choice is yours."

In many respects, that could be asking her to leap tall buildings with a single bound instead of training her, shaping her behavior to that point. One could begin such training on the phone. Giving her the conditions and then hanging up after the first negative blaming sentence.

I know it is difficult--very difficult to change old dogs. However, my 70 year old dysfunctional mother learned that if she was going to coveted time with me, she was going to have to quit being verbally destructive to me.

Eventually, she was able to visit me overseas for 3 weeks together and she never slipped up once.

Where there's life, there's hope.

reply to post by Roisin


Forgiveness is NOT ABOUT the forgiven.

It is about taking the knife of bitterness, resentment, poison out of one's own back and freeing one's self from the ball and chain of such recurring memories and emotional obsessions.

Forgiveness is essential to truly moving on in a healthy way.

reply to post by wildtimes


Certainly Family Systems therapy is a priority, preferred way to go.

However, you focused on the ATTACHMENT DISORDER factor immediately yourself, without the label. Yet you railed at me for essentially the same assessment. Sheesh. And you still seem to be doing so.

I think it's more unethical to avoid stating the obvious for prissy reasons.

Regardless, the ATTACHMENTS book by Drs Sibcy and Clinton has 10 steps to take in the back, for adults to walk out in overcoming such a childhood. I believe those items and the wealth of other information in the book would be constructively priceless for the OP.

But hey, throwing rocks at other perspectives is an ATS tradition.

I'm confident you'll continue to carry on, regardless.

I think it's better to give a range of good information and let the person do their research to sort it out according to their sensibilities, realities and priorities.

reply to post by BO XIAN


ha! I cannot imagine having a conversation with my mother where I am not hearing about all my faults... seriously cannot imagine it... heck if a conversation even begins to have no bearing on my faults she will find a way to somehow interject a perceived fault of mine into the conversation.

I quit talking to her more than once or twice a year quite a few years ago, every time I go long enough and start to forget what having a conversation with her is like, I call her up again.

But your right, maybe I should just tell her how it makes me feel... I have never done that... mainly because I feel like I am the dog who gets kicked, and the dirt that is walked all over, each and every time I am around her. And maybe most of me feels like I deserve it. The hardest thing for me to do is to feel like I don't deserve it.... and convincing myself of that only lasts as long as I don't talk to her.. because she makes me feel like I deserve it...

Which is why I don't talk to her much. I would never get anywhere in life if I was around her too much because emotionally I begin to feel stupid, ignorant, evil, wrong, like I can't make any decision that is right, and so many other things the list could go on for days and days...

reply to post by OpinionatedB



I quite understand.

Very much understand--professionally and experientially.

Perhaps something like:

Probably as a snail mailed letter for her to ponder over without you there, on the phone or online with her. That way, she can't rebut you at first.

"Mom,

I'll never have another birth mother. I would prefer a good, mutually constructive relationship with you.

PLEASE UNDERSTAND MOTHER, THAT IF AND WHEN YOU RESPOND TO THIS--I WILL CUT OFF THE COMMUNICATION IF YOU SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT ME. The main response I'm looking for is your earnest and genuine commitment to do your best to comply with my requirement to stop spewing poison when you communicate with me.

You have said plenty of negative poison stuff for 12 lifetimes and I'll not tolerate any more of it. I simply won't.

You are my mother, Not my Hitlarian gestapo jailer and executioner.

All the earlier years of our relationship--it has SEEMED IMPOSSIBLE that we COULD have a mutually loving relationship. Is it?

IT'S UP TO YOU.

I would like you as a nurturing mother.

I'm not willing to have you as judge, jury and executioner always bringing up my faults and railing at me negatively and destructively.

That is simply not functional for me.

That does NOT help me and it does not help you. It has not helped me lo these many years and it never will. I have other people in my life who can help me CONSTRUCTIVELY to see where I can improve. All your negative words have ever been to me is destruction and despair. Despair helps no one.

I'm sorry you had a rotten childhood without sufficient nurturing from your parents. That does not mean you get to spew poison all over me every time we have a communication. That is deadly to both of us. It is deadly to our relationship. I will not willingly, knowingly to participate in that any more.

WHEN you communicate negatively to me,

I FEEL like a Luke-warm pile of puke. I do not NEED to feel like a Luke-warm pile of puke. You do not need to leave your offspring feeling that way from every contact with you.

[When you put it: "When you ....(the behavior) . . .
I FEEL (your feelings) . . . you leave her responsibility for her behavior and you take responsibility for your feelings. She doesn't have the power to FORCE you to feel a certain way unless you give her that power. Take it back. Avoid saying "You make me feel . . . " She can't MAKE you unless you allow it and participate. You can choose to have a different response.

See her as a pathetic miserable person--as she undoubtedly is or she wouldn't spew poison. Choose what sort and what degree of relationship and how you'll handle it. Cut it off at the roots when it doesn't measure up to your minimal standards.]

Mom, I'm simply NOT WILLING to allow you to continue to communicated destructively to me. Actually, I encourage you to get a counselor and deal with the destructive negative self-concept and poison in your inner person that you keep spewing so liberally all over me and however many others. It would be tragic for you to die with such poison continually bubbling over from within you.

This is not negotiable.

Let me emphasize again. This is NOT negotiable. I will NOT be seduced by you into being your whipping post any more, any longer. Not at all. Zip. Nadda, Nothing like that at all. Fini. It's over.

If you are determined to end the last years of your life wallowing in a fetid stinking shrinking pile of self-inflicted misery, I can't stop you. But I do NOT have to join you any longer. And I won't.

Thankfully, I have learned enough functional things in life to be pretty good at . . . . (List your strengths--all your strengths--even partial almost there strengths.)

I will not have you trashing and ignoring my good strengths any longer--particularly while you force me to listen to your irrational mostly unfounded rants on how imperfect I am. You're not the paragon picture of perfection either. But I don't rant at you every communication. That's not love. That's not kindness. That's craziness to do such a thing to the offspring you're supposed to love and nurture.

If you don't have the first clue about how to nurture--go learn from someone who does. Otherwise you'll die a miserable, lonely old hag with fewer and fewer people willing to get within 100' of you.

I want to emphasize again. This is NOT negotiable.

IF I get a letter back from you that is constructive, healthy, nurturing, I would likely be willing to have a 5-10 min phone call to try it out. If on such a phone call, you say one negative thing about me, I'll stop you. If you continue to say it, I'll end the call immediately.

I'm willing to help you learn how to manage such a different kind of relationship--to a point. I won't put up with much negativity at all. I'll stop you in mid-sentence and/or hang up. No other option is on the table. None.

You are still alive. You still have a brain. You CAN learn new habits as difficult as it might be.

You'd be wise to get a top flight counselor help you with such junk. I'm not your counselor.

I simply will not tolerate more negative spewing from you AT ALL.

I don't deserve it. And I won't tolerate it.

A list of people happen to know I have a lot of qualities worth breathing air and taking up space with. If you don't, your loss.

My self-esteem and self-respect and sense of self-worth have been shredded and mangled by you and dad long enough. I'm more than done with that.

It is challenging to cobble together the sufficient self-esteem, self-respect and self-worth necessary to get up in the morning and make a successful, worthwhile day of it but I'm getting better at it, with a little help from my friends.

I'll not work so hard at all that only to have you work so hard to knock me back into some imaginary cesspool that you seem to enjoy swimming in. No thanks.

In short, Mom, Get a life. Quit spewing death into the lives of those you were supposed to love and nurture.

Take your time to respond to this. Do not call me for at least 2 weeks of thoughtful pondering what I've written above. If you call before 2 weeks, I'll hang up on you.

You'd be wisest to take my letter to a good counselor and discuss it first.

I'm quite serious and I'm more than willing to back up my words with actions.

Most sincerely,"

= = = = = =

It's not magic. It's hard work. And you can only do your part. But you can do your part. BTW, there's a great book called BOUNDARIES . . .

It might well be worth your time.

BOUNDARIES: WHEN TO SAY KNOW; HOW TO SAY YES TO TAKE CONTROL OF YOUR LIFE.

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386861926&sr=1-1&keywords=boundaries

Please keep me posted hereon or by U2U. I care about what happens with you.

I understand that parents are acting out of THEIR ATTACHMENT DISORDERED childhoods. However, the buck MUST stop somewhere. Enough is enough.

I do NOT know how fragile your mother is. I doubt she's fragile at all. Most such folks are as tough as nails.

However, IF you think she's fragile and vulnerable to suicidal depression, take such a letter to your own counselor and see if you can work out bite-sized workable chunks to feed her over time. Or, if she has a counselor--take it to her counselor.

continued

reply to post by OpinionatedB


If you don't feel up to all that content, you could at least give a minimal outline of the essentials in as matter of fact terms as possible and then BACK THEM UP WITH ACTION. Refuse to GO THERE with her.

Extinguish the negativity and fan into a flame ANY slight positivity.

I'm sure you can appreciate that I'm giving at-your-own-risk generic suggestions from an enormous distance. You'd do best to have tailor-made input from a counselor in your life, on the scene.

Blessings,
BoX

reply to post by BO XIAN


Fragile is not a word that describes my mother, even at her age and her health. I will take your advice as pertains to her and I, and will give it a shot, see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice.

You should buy her a ticket to Liberia.

OpinionatedB
reply to post by BO XIAN

 

Fragile is not a word that describes my mother, even at her age and her health.

LOL. That's what I gathered!

I haven't met such a one yet who was very fragile . . . in more than 6 decades of looking.

I will take your advice as pertains to her and I, and will give it a shot, see how it goes.

Thanks for the advice.

Thanks for your kind words.

I assumed all along that you'd tailor all my input as suited your sensibilities and particulars.

Please do let me know how it's going.

There is another . . . sort of Milton Erickson (of Phoenix, now deceased) sort of paradoxical strategy . . . push her chronic inputs to their most absurd extreme . . . It COULD be somewhat easier to see some progress but might be hard to make even moderately genuine, I don't know. Something along the lines of . . .

"Oh, Mother, you're so right. It's a miracle I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I'm just a luke warm pile of puke. I should stop breathing valuable air and taking up valuable space. How would you like me to off myself? Do you want to invite your friends to watch? Would you like to sell tickets?

On second thought, Mom, I have no intention of giving you the satisfaction of offing myself. I intend to live a long satisfying and meaningful life. I refuse to give you the power to shred me so completely."

However, I dislike saying such things as the first part, even in jest or as a strategy.

I personally think you deserve positive affirmations from yourself outwards and in your mental chatter and to limit your contact with negative people--NOT JUST MOMMY DEAREST!

You have passion, smarts, alertness, perceptiveness and quickness. You have plenty of skills and personality traits and qualities to succeed at a list of things. More power to you.

Thx again for your kind words.

Lysergic
You should buy her a ticket to Liberia.

aboard an arthritic sea turtle.

Or perhaps in the belly of a large whale with apologies to Noah.

reply to post by OpinionatedB


In terms of UNDERSTANDING mom . . . the ATTACHMENTS book noted above can help tons with that.

Basically, her own early childhood ATTACHMENT issues left her feeling like a luke-warm pile of puke, too. She has never had robust self-esteem, self-worth, self-respect herself.

SHE GETS A SLIGHT, TEMPORARY BOOST in feeling worth SOMETHING

BY

CRITICIZING OTHERS, PUTTING OTHERS DOWN as worth LESS than herself . . . and by trying to control them in her relationship with them. I assume she is QUITE CONTROLLING? or tries to be?

It's a hollow, cheap, tawdry dance like a moth with a flame. It never really satisfies her deep longing to feel worthwhile. But it's all she's got.

Of course, she may also have acted supremely arrogant as another compensation/adjustment to the deep holes in her emotional being from the ATTACHMENT issues and factors. The arrogance is also hollow regardless of how fierce and tenacious it is.

It's kind of a screaming billboard of the opposite realities within herself.

Understanding can be insightful and comforting to a point. It rarely results in changed behavior in and of itself.

FWIW.