What will you say/do, if you are wrong about Jesus

I find it very funny (and typical) that despite being asked several times the christians haven't answered this question.
I'm more interested in how you would feel and what you would think rather then what you would do.

But I won't hold my breath for a reply...

I don't quite know where to start with this. First off, the Bible is NOT the irrenent word of God. The Quran is a fake book that takes the Bible and re-words certains options so the Sons of Ishmael take the promised lands instead of the Son of Isaac as instructed. Muhammad was actually friendly with Jews for a while -- they had disagreements and then the Jews became good and evil. At one point they are good believers of the book and then at another point they are monkeys. The Quran is the greatest brainwashing tool ever devised by man. Oh and the god of Muhammad is not the same God of the Bible. Muhammad's god is also just as confused but the Quran basically calls the Bible corrupted, which I actually believe, but I didn't write a book trying to correct it.

Many here believe they have posted clever responses to Believer's question, but he is entirely correct.

If the Torah Code is real, we shouldn't have long to wait for the answer.

I suggest reading Mr. Drosnin's book, Bible Code II.

Check out website: www.onealclan.com (Torah Code pages)

I have concluded by studying the bible that it must be written by God (through his Holy Spirit in men).

There are many aspects you can look at but I find the accuracy of bible prophecy to be perfect and amazing. Daniel predicts in detail the progression of world empires in 500BC, all the prophesies pertaining to Israel came true (some still are being fulfilled) and all the prophesies pertaining to the Messiah were fulfilled with Jesus although alot of the Jews reject this. The book of revelation is clear that God still has to deal with Israel to bring them back to himself so they recognise Jesus as the Messiah, this is part of the purpose of the 7 year tribulation.

Anyway, doing an eschatalogical bible study we can conclude that we are very close to a scenario which would allow for the emergence of the anti-christ and therefore we are waiting for the Christian church to get its act together so that Jesus can rapture his Church. A few good indicators are the re-emergence of the roman empire as the EU, re-establishment of the state of Israel, technological advancement of humankind, iminent economic collapse of the USA, oil peak, rise of China and India, globalisation and Israel getting too militarily powerful for its own good.

Most people dismiss bible prophecy as nonsense without doing a detailed unbiased study but fortunately if you don't accept Christ before the rapture you can still accept him after, it will just be alot messier and harder.

Just remember that if a billion odd people simultaneously vanish from the face of the earth one day that those happy clappy Christians told you so !

The anti-christ will appear more powerful than you can imagine performing all kinds of supernatural things, probably accompanied by so called "Aliens" because satan is pretty powerful himself, just remember to read revelation, if you can find a copy when he's in power ...

I don't believe Christianity at all. However that doesn't mean I don't believe the events/prophecies described in the bible never happened, I'm fairly certain they did. But the bible is just no good for detailed analysis of these events due how much has been omitted to create the holy book of Christianity.

Maybe those ancient prophecies will actually come true, I don't know and I'm not ignorant enough to say either way.
However, just because some prophets may be correct I don't personally see what it has to do with christianity being correct, I don't see what a lot of the bible has to do with Christianity.
Certain parts of the bible and the way Christians describe them are totally different to me.

I find the bible an interesting (if rather edited) history book... but to me there's nothing religious about it.

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Faceless]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Faceless]

[Edited on 15-5-2004 by Faceless]

I would say why did you let your religion and your name be taken by greedy selfish so called do gooder's for personal gain and exploit those wanting to belive...

There is more and more evidence being found that prove the Bible right...archaeology, astronomy, secular history etc.
The Great Pyramyd of Gisa tells the story...the Stars tells the story...Stonehenge tells the story...and the Shroud of Turin is the proof of the resurrection...All for this scientific age. I think people are too lazy or scared to find out for sure whether it's all a fairytale or whether it's true.
Sceptics and those who want to know more about God's word should be checking Dr. Gene Scott out. His net work is called "the University Network" and he's on shortwave, c-band satellite, internet, 24/7 going all around the globe, also on some cable channels in the U.S. He's a Stanford University Graduate with a Phd major in Philosophies of Education and minors in geography, history, psychology, etc....his motto is 'don't park your brain at the door of the church.' He preaches university style not the touchy-feely stuff you get on Christian networks that gives you a feel good Sunday fix that doesn't last til monday.

I am a Christian and I don't have any backup plan if I am "wrong about Jesus".

That's what faith is.

For every proof there is of God and Jesus, Satan has created a apparent 'disproof'. That's why it all comes down to faith.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by Mountain Man]

Here's the thing -- there are four choices, essentially:

[Note: For all of these choices, please insert your version of the 'Higher Power' namesake. God, Jehovah, Buddha, Mohammed, etc.]

Choice #1: WE BELIEVE, AND THERE IS A GOD.
Choice #2: WE BELIEVE, AND THERE ISN'T A GOD.
Choice #3: WE DON'T BELIEVE, AND THERE IS A GOD.
Choice #4: WE DON'T BELIEVE, AND THERE ISN'T A GOD.

It's quite obvious to see that choices #1 and #2 (being 50% of the possibilities here) are good choices if your tolerance for risk is low. In other words, if you're the type of person who worries about death and the consequences and afterlife, choices #1 and #2 present an attractive option within that framework to give yourself a life insurance policy (no pun intended).

In deeper examination, it's really a question of believeing -- as we are asked to believe.

Let me be very straight forward. I believe in a higher power. I cannot -- however -- identify that higher power to be Jesus Christ nor a Single God.

I used to be pretty much of an aethiest -- in that I never really chose to pay attention to the 'God' of my familie's teaching - or the rulesets of a Christian society. I just lived life.

Then, for a while - I joined a Church which to this day is regarded as a cult. A serious one. I'm thankfully out of that spell.

The interesting part is that I've had 'religion' all my life -- but I haven't had SPIRITUALITY. My spirit of life -- the essence of who I am and what I make of myself -- is what I have come to understand and learn.

I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe he was a man -- possibly with a higher power (although to be honest, without SEEING these things in person, it's just hard to believe his parables). I do see EVIDENCE of something, but I cannot simply assume it's Jesus.

In the end, if I'm simply wrong - and Jesus exists, and he wanted me to believe and I didn't - I would of course ask his forgiveness.

He has forgiven too many people and too many things (according to his own parables) not to forgive me on my deathbed.

That being said -- nuff said.

Go with your Heart and Not by what Man tells you to do. Man is Fallible God isn't and I totally believe that God is a non condemning being, which we are all a part of. He doesnt save some and not others He simply loves and that is Who God is to me. We were given minds in order that we might learn how to 'think' on our own. Staying in a box and trusting in what anyone says 100% is just wishful thinking. I trust what my heart tells me and my instincts. Always take everything you hear with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by weemart
believe in God and try to live as Jesus taught, but tis difficult sometimes.

Originally posted by earthtone
No wonder you cannot follow your religion friend, half of the stuff isn't allowed anymore.

I just wanted to make a comment about your use of the Bible to rebut weemart's statement. The following verses you quoted are from the Old Testament and are not taught by Jesus in the New Testament. They should not be represented as teachings of Jesus, IMO:

Exodus 21:20-21 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

Leviticus 25:44-46 "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

Ecclesiastes 25:22 "Of the woman came the beginning of sin, and through her we all die." (from the Catholics Bible)

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

As for the New Testament verses you quoted, the one from Matthew is taken out of context.

Matthew 10:24 The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his lord.
Matthew 10:25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household?

This is not referring to slavery, like you suggested. The point, in this instance, is that if a person serves a master who is evil, then that person will be called evil. Jesus also gives a positive example of the servant following his master's lead.

John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am.
John 13:14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

(Oh yeah, slaves and servants are two different things...A slave is forced to serve a master against his/her will and receives no compensation. A servant is an employee and receives compensation for their services.)

These other verses are the interpretations of Jesus' teachings by men who may not have fully understood his message.

Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness (Tim. 6:1-5)

Timothy 2:11-14 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Corinthians 14:34 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

They are not the words of Jesus, himself. In fact, Paul admittedly includes some of his personal convictions, that Jesus didn't teach, in his letters.

1 Corinthians 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.
1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1 Corinthians 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
1 Corinthians 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
1 Corinthians 7:6 But I speak this by permission, [and] not of commandment.

In response to the original question, I have to agree that the best reply was, "aren't I your son?" I would also state that I believed in an infinite God, from which NOTHING could be separate, and if that belief is incorrect, what exists beyond God?

i think the first question by the starter of this thread was dumb.

I believe the current best-seller, Glorious Appearing, the last of the series of 12 Left Behind novels, explained that issue very well.

Check out
onealclan0.tripod.com...

Originally posted by Sapphire
Go with your Heart and Not by what Man tells you to do. Man is Fallible God isn't and I totally believe that God is a non condemning being, which we are all a part of. He doesnt save some and not others He simply loves and that is Who God is to me. We were given minds in order that we might learn how to 'think' on our own. Staying in a box and trusting in what anyone says 100% is just wishful thinking. I trust what my heart tells me and my instincts. Always take everything you hear with a grain of salt.

It seems to me that you're just believing what you want to believe. You can't just take out the parts of the bible that you're scared of, and then say "Thats what my heart tells me." Sure, maybe some of the Bible has been changed, but instead of guessing you should try research and prayer.

Originally posted by The Blade Runner
i am not wrong about jesus, anybody outside any relligion can see that pretty much all relligions are a load of crap...

its about having respect for nature and being slightly spiritual....

god does not judge you, you judge yourself, if you cannot live with yourself, youll probably turn into a ghost and be a lost soul in emotional pain untill you can come to terms with it 1000's of years later...

if you acept yourself and what youve done, then you might get an afterlife...

Religion is to control.

The after life is what you make it to be.

First of all, I was a Christian my whole life until 2 years ago. I have found that Christianity as we know it today is a lie.
Constanitne took the more popular ideas of Chrisitanity, along with those of a few other pagan religions, including Mithraism and formed the Holy Roman Empire. He used religion to control people. It was the church that invented the concept of Hell, and it was the church that portrayed God as some one vengeful and cruel.
If you believe the bible and Christianity, then you must also believe that Christianity is a modern form of Judaism. The only difference, is that Jesus is believed by Christians to be the Messiah, and Hell. The Jews do not, and never have believed in Hell, or any internal punishment. All people go to Heaven, according to Judaism. If you believe Christianity, you must believe in the Jewish faith as it was and is, and the only exception you could rightly make is that Jesus is the Messiah. The bible does not come directly from the original Christians. It comes from the church founded under Constantine. The church wrote what it wanted the people to believe. It was propaganda. Martin Luther got it right about a lot of what was going on, and he opened the doors for free thought and fredom of religion.
Now I am a Druid. This is where I begin my journey for truth. If I should one day find that Jesus truly was the Messiah, then I wil be truly apologetic that I turned away from him. However, I also trust, that if he was the Messiah, then he will be loving and forgiving and I know that this God cannot be cruel and vengeful. If this God of the Jews is the true God, he cannot be anything but loving and good, for wrath and anger and vengeance are sins, even by someone who is perfect. A sin is a sin. To sin renders one as imperfect, which would therefore contradict everything we've ever believed og God.
I do not know the actual name of God. i beleive in God, but not in any particular religion. God is not the name of the entity of a religion. God is a word, aterm used to describe a being of spiritual supremecy. I love and respect what is good, pure and just. That should be enough to sufice. A good person wouldn't punish some one for not believing in something which gave no proof.
For my whole life, 18 years, I believed in Christianity, and all the while I felt empty, like something was lacking. I never felt I had found truth. Instead I feared death, a fear of making a mistake and being tortured for all of eternity for a simple mistake in a little belief. Now that I know the truth of Christianity, I no longer have a fear of hell, because I know that the Hell of the Christians is a lie. Perhaps the afterlief will be horrible, but it won't be because I didn't believe in Jesus. I think it is horrible that people brainwash little children into believing something so horrible! To tell them that if they don't love Jesus and believe in him and only him, that they will go to Hell for all eternity!!! It's a lie, and it's wrong.
I'm not saying it's wrong to be Christian or Jewsih or what ever! But it's wrong to frighten someone into following a religion.

Originally posted by helen670

Originally posted by Byrd
Other religions do have prophets/teachers who raise the dead and who appeared to their disciples after their deaths. Buddhism is full of these stories.

And as for Jesus "fulfilling the Messianic prophecies", this is not true. He did NOT fulfill the Messianic prophecies in the Torah -- if he had, the Jews themselves would have accepted him.

*AFTER* his death, Christians went hunting through the Torah to find verses that proved Jesus was really the Messiah. These are the ones he "fulfills."

But, heck, using those rules, you could find prophecies after the fact that proved ME to be the Messiah.

other religions of proof....of raising the dead......yes , but are they fullfillement of what prophecy has said?
What do you mean went 'hunting''???
The Apostles doubted like any other human would have, but they accepted Him(Jesus) as the Saviour........As for the Jews.......it was also prophesied that many wont believe and when another comes in His (Jesus) name, him they will accept..........that one prophecy has not yet happened..........
And not all Jews have the same mind..........some do believe and some have doubt today, and some Christians have doubts today..........does that make it a lie..........no, all it means is that the prophecy of many not accepting Jesus as the Saviour has come true........even today .........even to those so called Christians who re write the Scriptures to suit themselves for whatever reason it may be...........

As for prophecy about quote///......But, heck, using those rules, you could find prophecies after the fact that proved ME to be the Messiah.

I dont think so......that has been said many times by many people........it means nothing...........it proves nothing........
Prophecy Has to be fullfilled 100% and Jesus Christ has fullfilled the prophecy of the Old Testament......
Go to your library and read all the early books from the early century.............some were passed down orally..as said in the New Testament......some will say that they did as they pleased..........Yes, lets say they did..........Now, for what reason may I ask???
They are not asking you for money!
They are not seeking your soul!
They are not putting you through torture, to accept Christ.............
It is you Free will to accept or not to accept..........it is your choice..............
I have not met a Christian who forces you to become a Christian........that is not a true Christian.......It is a matter of ''YOURSELF'' wanting to find the truth........and asking questions........real questions and getting honest answers........it is a choice you have now........
Like when the early Christians had a choice of following Jesus Christ........or being put to their death......using many forms of severe punishment ,tortures to worship Idols or another God ..........they chose Death......because death is only a bodily death........and with death......Jesus Christ conquered death.......

Prophecy sais that the time will once again be that........accept the god of this earth, the Antichrist , or accept the true God.........
Yes many have come in Jesus Christ's name, claiming to be Christ..........but not the whole world know of them......
When that one person cl;aims to be God, and comes with his false prophet, the whole world will hear of it.......the whole world will say........Where has this man come from.....where has he been?
Like Christ had a forerunner, St John the Babtist.......so will the Antichrist......he will have a false prophet welcome him to the world.......as the one that truly is God........to establish a World Worship of him........The prophets of the Old Testament..Elijah and Enoch will also be around to accuse the Antichrist of being Fake.....and the whole world will know.........not one or two or three people, but the whole world........when that time comes, no one knows.........but the signs of the times are here ........

Oh my Gosh! That hardly counts as a prophecy!! The bible prophecized that some will believe, some will doubt, and some won't believe!!!
Get real! Here, I shall now make a prophecy for you!
Someone is going to die today!
Or, here's another: I will eat pizza for dinner!
Now, some will believe I will eat pizza, some will have doubts, and some won't believe. Because of that, I am God!
Does that really make me God!?
WAKE UP!

Here are my Jesus beliefs:
*hes a pretty cool dude
*hes a total hippie
*hes just a human...not a god
*just like the backstreet boys...some people are just WAY too into him

If I'm wrong as he really is a God, I'll probably say, "Dude, I can't believe all those damn Jesus frekas were right!" And he'll be like, "Dude...don't tell them this, but you mellow kids are wa cooler." And I'll probably be like, "Aww man...I didn't want to say anything. I mean you are cool and all, but those crazy kids go way too far." And he'll say, "Seriously, they need lives."

Then we'll go grab a latte and play Scrabble.





some say im blasphemous. i just say im honest.


[Edited on 9-9-04 by Scat]

Originally posted by BuddhaCession
I respect the wisdom that the Bible DOES contain.

But about the Bibles god...

Numbers 31:17 & 18

17: "Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. 18: "But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves."

Another happy little verse.

Hosea 13:16

"Samaria shall become desolate, for she hath rebelled against God; they shall fall by the sword, their INFANTS shall be DASHED TO PIECES, and their PREGNANT WOMEN shall be RIPPED OPEN." Hosea 13:16

'Nuff said.


Peace



[Edited on 5-21-2003 by BuddhaCession]

If this has been posted, sorry. I apologize for bringing up something old, but I don't believe it was GOD who said kill all those people...it was that king; the one who wanted to kill everyone because he was searching for Jesus? Christ, look out which parts you quote then say it's from God...that's how cults get started.

If I'm wrong, I'll never know it. If there is no Jesus, no God...then I'll never know it. I'll never get a chance to say "Wow, there is no after-life"