Insurance is not the problem, it's the medical bills..

reply to post by OceanSpray


Every society throughout history has been flush with corruption and greed. Do you honestly think that if our society crumbles, that there would be no more corruption and greed? It would merely be a different set of people in charge of the whole corrupt system.

Evil_Santa

WeRpeons
reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71

 

How much are you paying?

I'm on the borderline for a hearing aid. The hearing aid doctor told me they cost $3,200 and it's not covered by insurance. He let me try them out for a month. I had to bring them back twice because they stopped working. I told him, they weren't worth $3,200 and gave them back. I think the batteries are costly too! I told him I could buy three good lap top computers for the price of those small hearing aids. I told him I know they don't contain as much electronic components as a computer, so I couldn't justify paying that amount of money.

There is no way in hell, that those hearing aids should cost anywhere near $3,200. Manufacturers and pharmaceutical are taking us to the bank and causing the insurance rates to sky rocket. It seems like there's no competition and the price is set across the board no matter how cheap it costs to manufacture. They know a high percentage of people need these drugs and medical devices so they artificially keep the price high.

Here's why it's $3,200 instead of $100. The average cost to get a device through FDA testing to be certified as a medical device is approximately $250 million. To recoup just those costs they have to sell almost 80,000 units. Oh that $250 million. If there's a new feature in the new model... yup another $250 mill gone.

Finally. Someone who understands. Thank you.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


And this is exactly why there will never be a cure for diabetes. It is a money maker and a job creator. To hell with the people that have to live with the daily injections. I will never give money for diabetes research because the whole thing is a scam and research and development never accomplishes anything except make treatments that continue and increase in cost and belie the hope for a cure that will never come only to continue the perpetual money train. That is my opinion, not fact?

TheLieWeLive
I was talking with a pharmaceutical rep who has been in the business over 10 years and he told me what sounds like a very plausible explanation.
He said for a person or company to get a medicine or medical apparatus to be allowed through the FDA they are given 17 years to create, test and get it through a review board from start to finish. He continued by saying, for example, that a medicine could take 10 years to finally pass through the FDA. That would only give the company 7 years to recoup any loss of revenue from developing and testing their product for that past 10 years plus earn a profit.
This is why everything cost through the roof because, according to him, after the 17 years has expired the medicine is allowed to be made generically by competitors.

In the end it all comes down to making lots of money over a short period of time.

edit on 2-12-2013 by TheLieWeLive because: (no reason given)

Not only that, but most of those companies sell globally.

You aren't just dealing with this market but with all the others. In places where they have socialized medicine, for example, governments buy the drugs at a bulk rate forced discount, so the company must sell at a loss no matter how new or how much they had to put into developing the drug. In some markets like China, in order to do business there, a company must give up some of its own proprietary secrets, and if China, the state, ever figures out how to rip off what it really wants from your business, they will start a state-owned company to develop a cheap rip off and kick out your company entirely. You lose everything, including your exclusive properties. And in other markets like Australia and India, you might go through the expense of developing a drug only to have the government examine the final product and the cost you have to put on it in order to try to realize a return on your investment, remove your patent and allow any company to develop it then and you lose everything.

Is it any wonder that the US is now one of the few places left where most Big Pharmas bother to develop?

The downside of all of this is that we are also one of the few markets where the Big Pharmas can try to recoup the cost of development. That means our drugs a hideously expensively because we are pretty much subsidizing most of the rest of the world with our costs.

Then you have the costs of regulations. For example, my husband deals with regs. To make one shipment of bio-material between two states for testing costs $300. You make enough shipments and that adds up, and all that goes into the final cost of product, and that is just one example of where regs cuts in.

reply to post by whatnext21


I completely agree with you. If anyone ever does truly find a cure for cancer, it will be a half-million dollar treatment course not a single pill that costs three dollars.

I never had to worry about healthcare again!

Since I found and lived according to the Truth and not to the foolish and "intelligent" ways of this world, I've stopped getting sick, no more colds, no more flu, no more back pains.

I haven't spent a dime on medicines and dietary supplements on myself for more than a year now and counting...

A compromised immune system making you quite vulnerable to contracting diseases, most of it comes from too much dependence on medicine, too much worrying (on money, possessions, and loved ones), and unhealthy diet. I think the standard healthy diet is still unhealthy because it's still far too much than the body needs. Hunger does not always mean you need to take food, sometimes it's just thirst

the problem is in fact insurance.

the medical costs are so high because the practitioners also must be insured for when they get sued for malpractice. same goes for the pill manufacturers.

"have YOU or one of YOUR LOVED ONES taken AVANDIA and suffered heart attack, stroke, or DEATH? CALL OUR LAW EXPERTS TODAY!"

the whole thing is a big circular racket involving the pharmaceutical industry, the regulators, the insurance companies, and the law firms.

reply to post by LadyLurker


That sounds fine and dandy but you left something out of the reply.
If your doctor screws up while you are in surgery, you would jump on the lawsuit bandwagon just like everybody else.
I should say that I don't have all the answers to the problem I'm just saying that the expenses should be researched and hopefully remedied before we just pay the bill.

LadyLurker
the problem is in fact insurance.

the medical costs are so high because the practitioners also must be insured for when they get sued for malpractice. same goes for the pill manufacturers.

"have YOU or one of YOUR LOVED ONES taken AVANDIA and suffered heart attack, stroke, or DEATH? CALL OUR LAW EXPERTS TODAY!"

the whole thing is a big circular racket involving the pharmaceutical industry, the regulators, the insurance companies, and the law firms.

It goes deeper than that.

The lawyers are also part of the problem, and look at Congress to see how many of them are in positions of power.

This NY Congresswoman who was a heavy smoker is suing over asbestos damage she claims was caused by stray fibers brought home on her father's and brother's clothing. She says itcaused her lung cancer and not all those years of heavy smoking.

Since lawyers have run out of ready asbestos claimants to drain the trust funds set up for victims of mesothelioma and other diseases directly caused by the substance, they are back to trying to get money from the indirect claimants like this woman. But here's how the original suits actually worked:

Lawyers made billions of dollars in the 1980s and 1990s by setting up mobile X-ray screening sites at union halls and other locations with concentrations of industrial workers, l0oking for claimants with lung scarring or other signs of asbestos-related disease. Because lung cancer is clearly caused by smoking, workers with cancer and a history of smoking were considered to have lower-value cases than n0n-smoking workers with asbestosis.

Using a time-honored strategy, lawyers bundled those weak and strong cases together, leveraging larger overall settlements than if the cases were presented separately. The most valuable cases have always involved mesothelioma, a cancer of the chest lining that is closely linked to asbestos exposure (although it clearly has other causes; the death rate has been rising in recent years despite a steep decline in industrial asbestos use since the 1970s.). In one example cited by the authors, G-I Holdings settled 160,000 cases in the 1990s in groups of 250 or more, paying out two-thirds of the money to non-mesothelioma claimants.

And often those lung x-rays would be simply rubber-stamped by questionable doctors who later plead the 5th.

In some cases, they count on there being a sort of "gentleman's agreement" between lawyers. They understand that going to court would be messy and so do the lawyers on the other side, so everyone agrees to settle out of court for a settlement. Either way, the lawyers get paid and are fat and happy.

Do, you begin to see why insurance gets so expensive and an overly litigious society is so subversive? Why do you think no one talks about tort reform when the lawyers write the laws?

Sorry to hear that, I have always said that there are so many unnecessary charges on medical bills, especially if you look at any itemized billing from an extended hospital stay you will easily find things that are way over inflated, duplicates etc.

I am not sure about this but I read an article a few years ago that claimed that much of the inflated costs are because of the numbers of people that have medical bills that they are unable to pay or they skip out completely and the bills go to collections, that coupled with the cost of doctor and other medical personnel pay are what drive the high cost of medical care.

I recently had angioplasty to insert three stents into my arteries. The amount the hospital charged the insurance company: ~$60,000. What the insurance company actually paid the hospital: ~$2,000. My co-pay: ~$600. So the hospital only got about $2,600 for what they claim is a $60,000 procedure. What will they do about the ~$57,400 difference? I'm sure they will claim the "loss" as a deduction to reduce their end-of-year tax liability. In the end, they will make more money by paying less taxes. All based on an unrealistic, bloated, and outright falsely proclaimed cost of a procedure.

It's a sick, twisted game.

reply to post by Shadoefax


That's nothing, you should see what they would quote you if you weren't covered and told them up front you were paying out of pocket. I guarantee you it wouldn't be $60,000. It would be a lot less.

Also, part of the reason the initial was that high was because the hospital and insurance company haggle.

If she eats some mexican food for a couple of days, the Nicotinic Acid in the peppers can overload the sensors and the pain will diminish. It is probably from a magnesium deficiency or maybe even a calcium deficiency. Could even be she is low on vitamin D3 or K2. These chemicals that make up the bone have to all be in the right percentages. K2 is found in animal fat and D3 is an animal based vitamin. Niacin is also required for these things. Molybdenum is also needed for these things to work efficiently. She can get a lot of these by eating sunflower seeds.

When one of these things is low or out of proportion, one of the symptoms is bone pain.

Learning why we don't feel pain most times helps to identify what we can do to relieve pain when we have it.

I had the exact same problem for many years. The pain is unbearable. Everything you said and all symptoms sound exactly like what I had, and maybe still have. For years couldn't figure it out.

Then finally about 10 years ago a Holistic Dentist told me I had Bruxism ... AKA -- nighttime grinding. Hubby said he never once heard me grinding at night, but the Dentist said I had all of the classic symptoms. Plus, a custom-fitted Night Guard worked -- solved the problem. Also, the above suggestion from RickyMouse also helps as well, along with the Night Guard.

So, since she's probably grinding her teeth at night the solution is to get a fitted, custom-made (not over-the-counter) Night Guard. I am sure it will address the problem. It's just a clear, thin, plastic, fitted covering that is custom-molded -- custom-fitted for each patient. It's best if she goes to a different Dentist. I would NOT rely on any of those people who weren't helpful and who were ineffective.

The Night Guard only needs to cover the upper jaw. It's not one of those metal contraptions. It looks like those new Invisalign braces or teeth-whitening plates people wear in their sleep to straighten or whiten their teeth.

It's not at all uncomfortable. And, it's not at all noticeable if she wants to wear it in the evening before bedtime. No one would know she was wearing it unless they really looked closely because it's a very thin clear plastic. But, she can't eat or drink while wearing the Night Guard. It's no big thing. It only solves the problem if it's worn faithfully every night or whenever asleep.

In the U.S. they cost anywhere from $250 -- $500 depending where you live. It takes a few days to arrive after the Dentist takes the impression and orders it. They should be replaced every 5 years or so. I'd stay up all night before I would go to sleep without it. I don't even know if I still have the grinding disorder as I don't want to find out -- not something I am not willing to do -- go to sleep without it for a few nights.

Sorry you got ripped off. All that money and no solution. I know the feeling. I had also spent a lot of money trying to fix the problem before finally finding the solution.

Its is the insurance, its the whole medico industrial complex. A profit driven not for health organization that seeks to make as much money as they can.
Why did we take a charitable act of looking after the sick and make it into something so diseased that the poor and middle class cannot afford it. The doctors are isolated from their patients by fear of lawsuit, the patient is frightened and distrustful the dr, and all the hospitals want to do is make money.

2 X-rays in ER and 1 bag of standard IV solution, all together is $4500. Couldn`t even get a straight answer if they found a concussion. Have to pay about $1500 to the ER doctor I never even talked to. Yeah I`ll put that at the top of my priorities over eating or staying warm and dry.

I've got 2 kids. One born with maternity insurance and one without. The total billed to insurance company for 1 normal birth ~$11000. Total paid out of pocket (cash deal) for 2nd kid - ~ $5000. These were within a year and a half, by the way. Same hospital, same midwife / doc, etc.

Yeah.

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by LadyLurker

 

That sounds fine and dandy but you left something out of the reply.
If your doctor screws up while you are in surgery, you would jump on the lawsuit bandwagon just like everybody else.
I should say that I don't have all the answers to the problem I'm just saying that the expenses should be researched and hopefully remedied before we just pay the bill.

OR

i would shop around for, and heavily research many doctors before deciding which one i go to as to not get burned to begin with...instead of just going to the first one im directed to by my insurance company.

do you go to any random hair dresser and then sue them when your unhappy with your haircut? or do you attempt to find the best one and hope they do a good job?

insurers are simply middle-man arbiters, that make you feel secure into not having to make a responsible choice through a thing called compensation. in the haircut analogy, your compensation is demanding your money back, or trashing their reputation as to damage future business. both result in the same thing. Only one is not up to you....its up to your appointed arbiter.

how does that trading your freedoms for security thing go again?

reply to post by LadyLurker




You can shop around if you want to. I'm sure that quadruple bypass you need will wait for months and months while you do all that fine research. Sometimes you have to go ahead with what you need right now. Sometimes you can make an informed decision. And even if you do find the best possible doctor they're human and still make mistakes.

Snarl
reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71

 

The root cause is medical school. There aren't enough seats. No competition in the market place. The supply -vs- demand thing.

The truth of it really is that no one wants to fix the problem.

You're right. I would go even further. No one even wants to LOOK at the problem, and I'm sorry, I include you in that assessment.

The root cause is not medical school. The root cause is not greedy hospitals and providers. The root cause is not even insurance companies.

The root cause is that the way that government programs are run (Medicaid/Medicare and now the ACA), they are driving up the cost of health care. Listen, I know that everyone wants to find someone to blame that is easy, and demonizing the insurance companies and medical professionals is far easier than even looking at the convoluted, bureaucratic mess that is State funded healthcare in the United States (let alone fixing it). But people don't want to hear it. They want an easy answer, and additionally, there seems to be this almost... pathological (no pun intended) drive to want to really, really believe that the government is trying to help people.

Most people certainly don't want to believe that in Medicaid there are 130K pages of regulations, most of which are dedicated to billing practices. Most of THAT is designed to make the system so complicated that the government can say "Whoops. You filed it wrong. So we don't have to pay." Or even worse. "Woops. You filed it wrong, so your hospital/clinic must be committing fraud. So not only do we not have to pay, you owe US money". (Seriously, if they don't cross all of their t's and dot all of their i's in quadruplicate the government can, will and do nail them for "fraud"). Even if you do file it correctly, the government only pays cents on the dollar for any given exam or procedure. Not to mention the entire departments and infrastructure necessary to navigate this bloated, red-tape dragon. All of this drives up the cost of healthcare astronomically, and drastically reduces the energy those in healthcare have to devote to quality of care. But you'll most likely blow this off. So will everyone else who wants to just point fingers without actually doing the work required to fix it.

I'm all for Universal Healthcare. That is not what we have in this country. Not even close.

Although as an aside, I have to say, that that $17.5k a year that goes to my insurance company for a family of 3, makes it hard, (I mean really hard), to not rant about that greedy insurance company. There are greedy hospitals and providers out there, and dirty, squirmy insurance providers, but their contribution to the rising cost of healthcare is NOTHING compared to what these government run programs in their current manifestation are doing. And it just kills me that people will howl and throw fits every single time you try to show them that. Nope. It's far easier to blame the "rich" Dr., or the overpaid nurses (who are "overpaid" because there is a nursing shortage, and nobody wants a job where you have to clean up poop and puke on top of listening to whiny, entitled snots and their rants about how healthcare costs too much because of the professionals in it). They are just the most visible ones, and they get the blame.

Most of us are feeling this veritable skinning when it comes to the cost of healthcare, but the causes for it are not what everyone thinks... Or wants to think.

Rant over.